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Old
03-30-2011, 08:29 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
I tend to agree with that, but what Rice was pointing out was the spread between the Wings with Datsyuk and the Wings without him being significant... and it is, of course... but how many games worse would it be with him replaced at cost as opposed to missing entirely? Instead of going 11-9-4 would the team go 15-6-3? 16-6-2?

That's the kind of spread I'm interested in seeing (as if it was possible). What does Datsyuk, specifically, bring to the Wings that they couldn't have gotten from spending that 6.7 mil on someone else, or a couple someone elses? I'm not saying that to imply Datsyuk's a hack or anything, far from it, I'm just curious about it.
So, trade Datsyuk for a Flip and a Cleary.

We'd be better?
No chance.

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03-30-2011, 08:40 PM
  #27
ricky0034
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
And last year he lost his job to Rask (mind you, Boston couldn't score, Thomas still put up good numbers). I wonder if Boston might be better off with another top 4 defensemen or forward.
wow....

just....wow



one thing I will point out though is that Thomas was injured last year,he had to get hip surgery in the offseason

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03-30-2011, 09:56 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
I tend to agree with that, but what Rice was pointing out was the spread between the Wings with Datsyuk and the Wings without him being significant... and it is, of course... but how many games worse would it be with him replaced at cost as opposed to missing entirely? Instead of going 11-9-4 would the team go 15-6-3? 16-6-2?

That's the kind of spread I'm interested in seeing (as if it was possible). What does Datsyuk, specifically, bring to the Wings that they couldn't have gotten from spending that 6.7 mil on someone else, or a couple someone elses? I'm not saying that to imply Datsyuk's a hack or anything, far from it, I'm just curious about it.
I don't think we could replace Datsyuk's bang for the buck on the open market, even from multiple players. He brings so much to the table that, even if the Wings could make themselves a deeper team, they wouldn't be as difficult to match up against.

If we could pull of something like the Kessel deal and get a top2 pick, along with a some cap space and players, then we might be in business. But I can't imagine Burke being that dumb again, though maybe he'd give us a 2nd rounder for Logan Pyett.

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Old
03-31-2011, 02:59 AM
  #29
nik jr
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Originally Posted by FabricDetails View Post
What if you were to compare how Pittsburgh has performed without their stars to how Detroit has performed? It seems like the Pens are plugging along but I don't know the actual numbers.
without crosby: 19-12-5
without malkin: 16-9-4
without either: 11-9-4 (only 3 wins in regulation)

without crosby, but with malkin: 8-3-1
without malkin, but with crosby: 5-0


penguins have much better defensive structure than DRW. goaltending is also better.


Last edited by nik jr: 03-31-2011 at 03:06 AM.
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Old
04-02-2011, 06:32 PM
  #30
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The Wings seem to have a totally different offense when Pavel isn't playing. When Pavel is suited up, the Wings tend to control more in the offensive zone. Now that he's scratched, it seems like the Wings are having trouble maintaining that same control. They've been opting for a more dump-and-chase entry and then just try throwing it at the net and going for the re-direct.

I think Pavel is fine, Babcock just doesn't want one of his most valuable players getting hurt in the last 5 games of the season. Smart move to sit him out against physical teams like the Blues and Predators who would probably be trying to plow Pavel through the boards any chance they got.

Pavel is most dangerous when people forget about him.. and that's what Babs seems to be banking on.

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Old
04-02-2011, 08:12 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bottleknocker View Post
The Wings seem to have a totally different offense when Pavel isn't playing. When Pavel is suited up, the Wings tend to control more in the offensive zone. Now that he's scratched, it seems like the Wings are having trouble maintaining that same control. They've been opting for a more dump-and-chase entry and then just try throwing it at the net and going for the re-direct.
This is exactly how I have seen it. Without Datsyuk, we are a dump and chase team, and not very good at that, either. Datsyuk seems to be the spark plug for this team this season. If we do not control the puck, we are at best an average team.

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Old
04-02-2011, 08:42 PM
  #32
chances14
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fsd showed a graphic during today's game that showed the wings letting 0.8 more ga a game when datsyuk is not in the lineup

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Old
04-22-2011, 01:34 AM
  #33
jaster
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Slight necro here, but I had always meant to reply to this topic, got real busy the first couple weeks of the month, and then kinda forgot about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Without going whole-hog with it, when you look at the production of people who make 6+ mil and compare that to the people who make 5-6 mil there doesn't tend to be a very substantive difference, and if you look at something like a 'replacement value' it's almost universally easier to get more production out of two slots where the salary is split 4-6 mil and 2-4 mil than it is to get that production when the split is 6-8 mil and 0-2 mil for skaters, and I've already touched on the high-paid vs lower-paid goalie stuff.

There are a very, very few exceptions to this rule. Maybe four or five at most. And all forwards.

The problem with the Wild is that they dumped 6 mil on a goalie, and that's cost them depth up front which has led to outrages like Andrew Brunette being 5th among forwards in TOI/g and Matt Cullen 3rd. Also, signing Havlat to that deal was really, really stupid.
While I think you have a valid point regarding the value of $5M + $2M players vs $6M + $1M players, I think it's a rule that a team can only follow up to a certain point. I think there's a piece of the puzzle that says a team needs to have some star players. It has to have a line (or at least a couple players) that it can put on the ice and depend on when a goal is needed. It needs a defense pairing it can put out in crucial situations (offensively and defensively). Those pieces are the ones that cost upwards of $6M. If a team doesn't have those, they are the Wild, or the Preds; teams that can provide some regular season dogfights, but always miss the playoffs or go out in the first round.

The Wild may have spent too much on a goalie, but, of teams near the cap, they were still the furthest from being top-heavy, and they were one of the worst teams in that group. I agree that their depth sucks, but they sure could use a guy who is capable of potting 30+ goals (and maybe a #1 defenseman - I like Burns, but I'm not sure he's a legit #1).


Quote:
I mean, look at the Preds. They are consistently successful, haven't spent more than 4.5 mil a year on anybody, and they've left 8+ mil of cap space on the table every year. If they were actually able to use that space and pick up those last two 4 million dollar skaters... I think that makes the difference for them between being a yearly 1st and out team and something much more dangerous. If those were dmen like Brad Stuart and an offensive guy like a Yandle or a Burns...?
The Preds are pretty darn good defensively already, and get good production from their backend as well. I'd say what they are missing is star power up front. I think they'd be much better off spending that $8M to upgrade a couple forwards to $6-7M guys and have a real top line. One where, I don't know, at least one guy could put up more than 50 points in a season

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Old
04-22-2011, 10:36 AM
  #34
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wait what? The wings are a better team with Datsyuk in the lineup?

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Old
04-22-2011, 11:04 AM
  #35
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Well, we're what? 5-1 without Zetterberg.
And since playoff games are worth more. It's more like 13-1
Trade his sorry ass!

It's great to see Rice flexing his muscles in front of the "naysayers," but come on. We just killed killed a team on death row.

B.F.D.

LOL/EDIT: Sorry Ricer. Didn't realize this thread was 7.000 weeks old!

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Old
04-22-2011, 11:07 AM
  #36
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I have to admit, the thread title made my heart skip a beat.

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04-22-2011, 12:16 PM
  #37
cjm502
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How do the Caps play without Ovechkin?

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Old
04-22-2011, 12:31 PM
  #38
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Best player in the world, IMO. Equally as good on both ends of the ice, and after his recommendation, I'd trust my eyes to no one else but Dr. R.

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Old
04-22-2011, 12:50 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm502 View Post
How do the Caps play without Ovechkin?
Cannot equate the two.

The Grape Ape is pretty one-dimensional... Pavel is equally good on both ends of the ice.

The lack of a proper D and inexperienced goaltending will be the Cap's undoing... probably in round 2.

The Wings, however, coul win the Cup.

And I say this as a Cap's season ticket holder.

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Old
04-22-2011, 12:55 PM
  #40
Ricelund
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The final tally this season: with Datsyuk in the lineup, the Wings were 36-15-6 (.684, good for 112 points). Without him, they were 11-10-4 (.520, good for 85 points).

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Old
04-22-2011, 01:03 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rice View Post
The final tally this season: with Datsyuk in the lineup, the Wings were 36-15-6 (.684, good for 112 points). Without him, they were 11-10-4 (.520, good for 85 points).
Even though this is missing a lot of variables (who else was injured at the time for one), I think this hits the mark pretty well. He's a beast.

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04-22-2011, 04:19 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rice View Post
The final tally this season: with Datsyuk in the lineup, the Wings were 36-15-6 (.684, good for 112 points). Without him, they were 11-10-4 (.520, good for 85 points).
Impressive.

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Old
04-22-2011, 06:16 PM
  #43
nik jr
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Originally Posted by 14ari13 View Post
Impressive.
i was thinking the opposite of impressive.

still a goodly roster without datsyuk, but .520 sucks.

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Old
04-22-2011, 07:59 PM
  #44
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Forget 11-10-4
It's 11-14.

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