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Old
04-03-2011, 06:55 AM
  #126
TheBourkeIdentity
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Originally Posted by HarlemsFinest View Post
what would have been the point? he wasn't the one ****ing up. and pull him for what, to rest him for the playoffs they're not making, or their last 3 games? it doesn't matter either way, so may as well let the guy lose with his dignity for that night, specially since he was their best player. lemaire said the team was playing so bad and he just didn't want to get scored on again.
And it's not like Brodeur was having a bad game, he pulled some sick saves outta his posterior, like on Cami's rebound shot in the 2nd.

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04-03-2011, 07:40 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Evidence? I listed a bunch of errors that many guys on the team make too often, but Pyatt does not.

Number of minor penalties this year: 1
Number of turnovers in his own zone: too few to count
Number of odd-man rushes against: maybe 2 all year, and I think he came back to break up one of them
Supporting the puck: all the time
Willingness to take a hit to make a play: you see it all the time
Extended his shift and got into trouble: not once
Number of icings all year: 1 or 2 at most
PK efficiency: 85% which is very good (last year was over 90%!)
Number of times his man scored on us from a dangerous area: maybe 3

In other words, Pyatt works hard and smart. He does not get a lot of points, though he can score a bit when playing with speedy players like Gomez/Gionta or Moore/Lapierre. However, his hard and smart work may possibly rub off on others too. He is a great TEAM player.

Also Pyatt's speed plays right into the Habs style. Guys like Halpern, Desharnais, White do not have anywhere near the speed needed to play against top teams and not get beat by their man.

So, my contention is that the stats are not a fluke.

34-18-6 versus 8-12-1 reflects something REAL, for sure. I think that shows he should play more.

Yeah Pyatt is almost flawless defensively, too bad he can't pot in a goal or two every now and then, everyone actually appreciate him then

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Old
04-03-2011, 07:41 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by la25ecoupe View Post
Why didn't they pull Brodur?
Lemaire said the team was playing really bad and he didn't want to get scored on again

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Old
04-03-2011, 07:46 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Our best PK forwards if you look at shorthanded icetime per pp goal against (obviously doesn't tell whole story as it doesn't take which PP unit or 5 on 3 into equation):

1. Brian Gionta (152 minutes / 12 PP goals against): ~12.6min/PPGA
2. Jeff Halpern (168 minutes / 14 PP goals against): ~12.0min/PPGA
3. Travis Moen (179 minutes / 15 PP goals against): ~11.9min/PPGA
4. Tomas Plekanec (207 minutes / 18 PP goals against): ~11.5min/PPGA
5. Tom Pyatt (129 minutes / 12 PP goals against): ~10.7min/PPGA

The other forwards play half as much or even less on the PK and still have a worse rate expect for one...Scott Gomez (73 minutes / 5 PP goals against): ~16.7min/PPGA.

Just to make sure this isn't a fluke I looked up last year's averages:

1. Scott Gomez (159 minutes / 11 PP goals against): ~14.5min/PPGA
2. Brian Gionta (117 minutes / 10 PP goals against): ~11.7min/PPGA
3. Travis Moen (192 minutes / 19 PP goals against): ~10.1min/PPGA
4. Tomas Plekanec (224 minutes / 23 PP goals against): ~9.7min/PPGA

Everyone else didn't play nearly as much on the PK but among them these were the best:

Tom Pyatt (45 minutes / 2 PP goals against): ~22.5min/PPGA
Sergei Kostitsyn (84 minutes / 8 PP goals against): ~10.5min/PPGA
__________________________________________________ _____

For defense, I have to say I was surprised to see who came first.

1. PK Subban (187 minutes / 11 PP goals against): ~17.0min/PPGA
2. Hal Gill (278 minutes / 19 PP goals against): ~14.6min/PPGA
3. Josh Gorges (136 minutes / 10 PP goals against): ~13.6min/PPGA
4. Jaroslav Spacek (129 minutes / 16 PP goals against): ~8.1min/PPGA
5. Roman Hamrlik (151 minutes / 24 PP goals against): ~6.3min/PPGA

Brent Sopel (28 minutes / 2 PP goals against): ~14.0min/PPGA
Paul Mara (43 minutes / 6 PP goals against): ~7.2min/PPGA

Gill leads the league in SH TOI and plays way more than anyone else on the team so he by default wins best penalty killer but the fact Subban is so effective is another proof of his defensive abilities. Furthermore, Hamrlik shouldn't kill penalties.
Wow, I had already looked up and knew these stats already, but I just did one calculation based on your last sentence and it is staggering.

If we had a different coaching staff that would put Hamrlik out there for Gill's minutes and Gill out there for Hamrlik's minutes, we would likely have something near THIRTEEN more goals against this year!!!

Or if our coaching staff had not wanted to play the risk-taking offensive-minded rookie Subban on the PK, and split his minutes between Spacek and Hamrlik, we might have FIFTEEN more goals against!!!

Goes to show that efficiency on the PK is a real factor, and you can't just say "oh, we could put anyone out there on the PK". Truth is, the PK is as important as the PP. Folks often forget that.

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Old
04-03-2011, 08:04 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Whereabouts Unknown View Post
Yeah Pyatt is almost flawless defensively, too bad he can't pot in a goal or two every now and then, everyone actually appreciate him then
Of course.

In the playoffs last year, given that playing error-free hockey is so important, and guys like Pouliot, Darche, Metropolit and Kostitsyn were crapping the bed with multiple errors, Pyatt was 8th among our forwards in ice time. But....he was also 8th in scoring! His play was highly praised by most experts. He played very often with either Moore and Lapierre, or Gomez and Gionta. Pyatt seems to need to be with other speedy players for his offensive game to come out a bit. I think what happens when he plays with slower players is that (probably following orders since he is known to always play the system) he holds back much more to be the third man high, because the fear is that playing with Moen or White or Halpern or even Desharnais, the line is in danger of odd-man rushes against. Whereas if Gionta is third man high, or Moore or Lapierre is, the situation is still in good hands.

In the next year or two, if Lars Eller develops into a solid 2nd or 3rd line center, I could see Pyatt returning to a key role as the 3rd line LW, either with Gomez-Gionta or with Eller-Leblanc (or a good RH shooting two-way player via trade or UFA). If we could match up a defensively sound and speedy 3rd line against a top-2 line on the other team, that would leave one of our scoring lines playing against a bottom line. This would repeat the success of the Moore-Lapierre-Pyatt trio. Two of Plekanec, Pacioretty, Cammalleri, Kostitsyn could be playing weaker or slower opposition most of the time.

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Old
04-03-2011, 08:10 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by LivesWithMom View Post
You guys must admit, for a first post this was pretty close ?


"Hey guys and gals. This is my first post here. My predictions are always right.

4-2 Montreal Feel free to purchase your Mise-o-jeu's"
As long as you keep predicting wins for us, I'm cheering you on

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Old
04-03-2011, 08:18 AM
  #132
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NJ ain't such a bad place, anymore.

Need Canes to lose tomorrow, and 1 more point for the Habs in their next 3 games to lock up a playoff spot.
Wrong: We need Buff to lose tomorrow. To overtake us, Crapolina has to win all four while we lose our last three. No chance. JINX BUSTER APPLIED.

We want 6th, as Philly may end up 2nd. And I like our chances against the Bruins.

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04-03-2011, 08:21 AM
  #133
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I was waiting for the Pyatt conspiracy theory...it is all coincidence, he is not at factor.
It's got to where 21 games is just not a fluke. Especially since I have been talking about this stat for two months. I did not just pull it out of my hat today. I noticed this before, and it is still happening.

Also, this has nothing to do with conspiracies.

What it has to do with is simple: we have our top forwards, they play all the time, as they should. I am referring to Gomez (yes, him), Gionta, Plekanec, Cammalleri and Pacioretty. All the rest really are in competition for ice time. All have some flaw in their game, or multiple flaws. They can have good streaks but then they can go back into bad habits or their natural flaws can simply hurt us every now and then.

Whenever the coach has had the idea to sit out Tom Pyatt, it has basically been to play another bottom-6 forward over him. And the truth is that most of our bottom-6 forwards make more mistakes than they help, or their lack of speed causes danger just as much as a mistake could.

Despite not scoring very much this year, it seems from the stats that sitting Pyatt out and playing other bottom-6 guys more works out less often than sitting out some other guy. By far. Not even close.

And watching the games, I think I see why Pyatt is useful. Even a guy like Pierre Maguire has picked this up recently on a TSN broadcast.

Bottom line: 34-18-6 versus 8-12-1!!

In the face of this kind of highly significant fact statistically, I think it is those who are constantly writing up lineups and rosters replacing Pyatt with minor-leaguers or waiver-wire fodder who should have to justify their hate with a bit more depth than they have been doing.

Oh, and by the way, if Travis Moen could hit an empty net once in a while, Pyatt would have many more points, and we would not even be having this discussion.

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Old
04-03-2011, 08:28 AM
  #134
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Great bounce back game by the boys but hockey is a funny sport when it comes to luck. I thought a couple of early breaks and good bounces against Carolina really good have changed the complexion of that game.

Last night Price got incredibly lucky on the penalty shot by Tedenby. But Price deserved that luck and so did the team. May have been the save / non-save of the season. LOL

The extra day's rest sure showed. Everyone just looked a lot sharper. Maybe the player that called out the team for lack of focus against Carolina was right.

Subban's shot has come along way since the beginning of the season. Right now it's blistering and kudos to him.

Clinching a spot against Chicago could go a long to the Habs' first round. Giving some guys a rest could help tremendously especially Price, some d-men, Plekanec and some others maybe.

Eller was on his horses last night. Back and forth and back and forth. I love watching that kid. LOL

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04-03-2011, 08:35 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post

That sounded like Rejean Tremblay discussing hockey with Bretrand Raymond. Or a good episode of l'antichmabre.

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04-03-2011, 08:36 AM
  #136
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Here is a positive note. The Habs are 2-1 in their last 3.

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04-03-2011, 08:36 AM
  #137
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I know Lemaire said he didn't pull Marty because the team was playing bad, but I think the truth is that it was more about preventing Price from scoring a goal. He was handling dump-ins like crazy last night. He could have easily potted one.

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04-03-2011, 08:42 AM
  #138
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Here is a positive note. The Habs are 2-1 in their last 3.
and in the game we lost, we out shot our opponent 40-35

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04-03-2011, 08:48 AM
  #139
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I really liked the look of Darche with Gomez and Gionta. I wonder if we'd be able to play Pacioretty on the 1st line with Plekanec and Cammalleri. It would give us two players with size in the top 6, with Pouliot, Eller and Kostitsyn as a great 3rd line.

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04-03-2011, 08:56 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
It's got to where 21 games is just not a fluke. Especially since I have been talking about this stat for two months. I did not just pull it out of my hat today. I noticed this before, and it is still happening.
Which makes Pyatt more valuable to this team than Markov? It's all good to get those stats, they are indeed interesting. But any chance you've also pulled out the type of opponents we happened to have to explain those stats? Any chance some other stuff happening while he was in or out of the lineup? I mean, while Martin made some good and bad moves, do you seriously think he voluntarily to not dress him while statswise as far as you're concerned, it's crystal clear that Pyatt is totally making this team much better?

Pyatt is not as bad as most people think he is. Yes, I'd appreciate a 4th liner to be more physical but Pyatt does his job. Just not sure that doing your job makes you the MOST valuable player on the Habs 'cause who else had those kinds of stats when they were playing or not? Only Markov did at one point but this year, statswise, Markov is a no show.....Yet, he's not valuable?

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04-03-2011, 09:29 AM
  #141
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Which makes Pyatt more valuable to this team than Markov? It's all good to get those stats, they are indeed interesting. But any chance you've also pulled out the type of opponents we happened to have to explain those stats? Any chance some other stuff happening while he was in or out of the lineup? I mean, while Martin made some good and bad moves, do you seriously think he voluntarily to not dress him while statswise as far as you're concerned, it's crystal clear that Pyatt is totally making this team much better?

Pyatt is not as bad as most people think he is. Yes, I'd appreciate a 4th liner to be more physical but Pyatt does his job. Just not sure that doing your job makes you the MOST valuable player on the Habs 'cause who else had those kinds of stats when they were playing or not? Only Markov did at one point but this year, statswise, Markov is a no show.....Yet, he's not valuable?
I am not claiming that Pyatt is the most valuable member of the team.

I said that after the top 5 forwards, he is in a group of about 9 -10 guys who compete for ice time. I think the stats make a strong case (nothing is actually "PROVEN" by this type of analysis - I repeat a STRONG case) that he should not be sitting out as much as he does, and we should not be hearing so much here about how the team would be better off with minor-leaguers or waiver-wire slugs in his roster place.

I contend that his small number of errors is too easily written off in these parts as not important, and the attributes of other 3rd and 4th line types exaggerated because we see the occasional good effect (an opportune fight, or a PP assist, or an amazing slap shot goal once in 20 games) and don't realize that these same bottom line guys have lots of flaws that Pyatt either avoids or naturally does not have.

I also happen to think that the work ethic of this guy might be rubbing off on other players during the games. That's not a bad thing, and playing him regularly sends a message to the team that if you play hard, play DISCIPLINED, avoid turnovers and play the system, you will get your minutes. Anything wrong with that?

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Old
04-03-2011, 10:11 AM
  #142
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Just saw Prices post game interview
Thought it was pretty funny haha

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04-03-2011, 11:04 AM
  #143
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If we go 0-3 in the last 3 games we still are likely in (86.7%)

We win 1 more and we are 99,8% in, need 3 points to clinch.

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04-03-2011, 11:10 AM
  #144
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One thing I particularly enjoyed yesterday is that the Canadiens forwards were finally putting pressure on skaters skating through the neutral zone. The wingers kept stuffing out any forwards skating along the walls, it's about time we do this. It was also nice to see the Canadiens apply two-man pressure at times to any forward or D man trying to carry from their own end, it caused a lot of turnovers.

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04-03-2011, 11:14 AM
  #145
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One thing I particularly enjoyed yesterday is that the Canadiens forwards were finally putting pressure on skaters skating through the neutral zone. The wingers kept stuffing out any forwards skating along the walls, it's about time we do this. It was also nice to see the Canadiens apply two-man pressure at times to any forward or D man trying to carry from their own end, it caused a lot of turnovers.
It was good to see the Habs beat the Devils at their own game...The Devils have been the best team in the league for the last 2-3 months...it did remind me of some of our playoff hockey last year, with giving up less shots on goal...anyhow, we finally played some desperate hockey, it's the first time in weeks that the team knew they had to WIN....

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04-03-2011, 11:23 AM
  #146
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It was good to see the Habs beat the Devils at their own game...The Devils have been the best team in the league for the last 2-3 months...it did remind me of some of our playoff hockey last year, with giving up less shots on goal...anyhow, we finally played some desperate hockey, it's the first time in weeks that the team knew they had to WIN....
You are right we did beat the devils at their own game. Nice to see Montreal force the other team to make quick plays which resulted in turnovers. I hope this is a sign of things to come.

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Old
04-03-2011, 11:59 AM
  #147
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Wow, I had already looked up and knew these stats already, but I just did one calculation based on your last sentence and it is staggering.

If we had a different coaching staff that would put Hamrlik out there for Gill's minutes and Gill out there for Hamrlik's minutes, we would likely have something near THIRTEEN more goals against this year!!!

Or if our coaching staff had not wanted to play the risk-taking offensive-minded rookie Subban on the PK, and split his minutes between Spacek and Hamrlik, we might have FIFTEEN more goals against!!!

Goes to show that efficiency on the PK is a real factor, and you can't just say "oh, we could put anyone out there on the PK". Truth is, the PK is as important as the PP. Folks often forget that.
This is probably why the Habs felt the need to acquire Sopel even though they had Hamrlik, Subban, Gill, Mara, Picard, Weber, Wisniewski all healthy. Other than Gill, Subban, and Mara to an extent, the rest are pretty bad on the PK in terms of preventing goals. Wisniewski has an horrendous average especially (25 minutes / 8 PPGA).

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04-03-2011, 12:21 PM
  #148
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Damn, just got done watching the game. Why couldn't we have played like this the past few weeks. We would have been #1!

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04-03-2011, 12:39 PM
  #149
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Damn, just got done watching the game. Why couldn't we have played like this the past few weeks. We would have been #1!
We need our underdog status in the playoffs.

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Old
04-03-2011, 12:58 PM
  #150
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this reeks of last season
limp into the playoffs expecting everyone to roll over the Habs

then BAM

we all could be in store for some deja vu haha

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