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James Wisniewski vs Mark Streit

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Old
04-02-2011, 05:08 PM
  #26
Habaddict
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Streit simply couldn't play on defense when he was a Hab. Wisniewski may not be great at it, but he's... "adequate", say. I don't know how many points Streit got up front vs. on the PP, but I just didn't feel like he was as good as Wiz on offense either. But at least it's close on the offense side, where it's not on defense.

This is a much different debate than one would have of the "present day Streit as an Isle" vs. Wisniewski, however. Wisniewski as a Hab >> Streit as a Hab. I believe Isles fans would suggest Streit as an Islander >>> Wisniewski as an Islander. I'm not sure how to evaluate Streit as an Islander vs. Wisniewski as a Hab.

I'd take Wisniewski on a contract like the one Streit signed as an Islander.
I'm confused. Maybe it's the hangover , but this reads
a bit like that " who's on first " skit.
Anyway, I'm with what seems like the consenses.
About 4.25 . And at his age I would like to see 4 years.
If he improves, we won't have to wonder if we can resign him.

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Old
04-02-2011, 05:35 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Nicko999 View Post
People thinking Streit is better offensively are wrong...

Streit had 62 pts with Markov playing 82 games that season.

Wiz has 49 pts in only 71 games so far with Markov playing 0 games with him.
56 et 49 pts with the islanders for Streit last 2 season (excluding this one)

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Old
04-02-2011, 06:23 PM
  #28
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On our team, wiz no question... Everybody complains we're not gritty enough and then a thread like this pops up, and surprisingly enough, people go for the Weber type of player. cant go both ways...

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04-03-2011, 11:16 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by parachutist View Post
Habs are in a similar situation to when Streit became a free agent.

They have an offensive d-man who's racking up points but also has some flaws defensively. The Wiz may be more physical and gritty but Streit actually had more points and is maybe more mobile.

Which one do you like better? Do you give similar money to Wiz?
streit was MAB in his own end ....at least Wiz is ok

but 4 mil is my top $

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Old
04-03-2011, 11:32 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by geeman View Post
streit was MAB in his own end ....at least Wiz is ok

but 4 mil is my top $
Streit was a plus player and the number 1 point scorer on a horrible NYI team. In my opinion, he's better than MAB offensively and defensively.

Wiz is a plus player (+3, 28 pts in 40 games) with the Habs while MAB is a -10 (7 pts in 19 games) with TB. Bertrand Raymond must be speechless...

Wiz for a 2nd round pick was a great deal! Would've probably cost more at the trade deadline.

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Old
04-03-2011, 11:33 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by NBP81 View Post
On our team, wiz no question... Everybody complains we're not gritty enough and then a thread like this pops up, and surprisingly enough, people go for the Weber type of player. cant go both ways...
I'd like for people to explain me exactly how is Wiz gritty ?

Really, he's pretty soft and small. Doesn't drop the gloves or "defends" his teammates (I know he has a cage now, but it wasn't always like that).

Is it because he's North american ?

Of course, he's grittier than Streit... who isn't... but don't make him out to be this big gritty physical presence.

He's too small and not good enough defensively to be effective with Markov. He has a great shot, but he's RH... not ideal with Markov on the PP.

He's a puck-moving Top 4 defenceman... but we already have 2 if Markov re-signs (which I hope).

Even at Streit's money, I wouldn't want him back.

Streit is a much better defenceman than people think... but even now, I wouldn't want him either... for the same reasons that I don't want Wiz back.

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Old
04-03-2011, 11:37 AM
  #32
Andy
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I'd take Wisniewski back in a heartbeat, no questions asked.

Our offense from the back end would be set with Wisniewski, Subban and Markov.

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Old
04-03-2011, 11:43 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
I'd take Wisniewski back in a heartbeat, no questions asked.

Our offense from the back end would be set with Wisniewski, Subban and Markov.
Yup really love what the guy brings to the table. He gets the puck out of the zone, I love to see him in the offensive zones trying some things.

And after I've watched his Nos Canadiens episode, I was like wow he's so down the earth. We need players like him.

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Old
04-03-2011, 11:48 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Kboum View Post
Yup really love what the guy brings to the table. He gets the puck out of the zone, I love to see him in the offensive zones trying some things.

And after I've watched his Nos Canadiens episode, I was like wow he's so down the earth. We need players like him.
Yup he brings an entirely different dynamic. He moves the puck pretty well, but I also love when he carries it through the neutral zone. Also his pinching down low is mostly well timed.

Subban Markov and Wisniewski all have good offensive games, but the way they comport themselves offensively is very different from one another. They each have their own distinct styles which will make Montreal an extremely dangerous team in aspect of offensive from defensemen.

We have Gorges secured as a solid shutdown defensive defense. If I'm Montreal I'd look into bringing in a younger defensive defensemen with good footspeed to play with Wisniewski.

Markov Gorges
Defensive D Wisniewski
Defensive D Subban

one guy I'd definitely look at bringing in is Jan Hejda, good defensive defensemen with size, though he doesn't really use it. He's a little older though.


Last edited by Andy: 04-03-2011 at 11:55 AM.
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Old
04-03-2011, 11:49 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
I'd like for people to explain me exactly how is Wiz gritty ?

Really, he's pretty soft and small. Doesn't drop the gloves or "defends" his teammates (I know he has a cage now, but it wasn't always like that).
People say he's gritty because compared to our other defencemen he actually goes out there and throws body checks. Our other defencemen just rub out the forwards as they come down whereas Wiz actually will take them out with a hit.

But your right, he does lack the size. Imagine if Hamrlik and Gill took the initiative and threw hits like Wiz. Spacek does once in a while and has the size but not nearly enough.

Thats why we are soft on d, we lack guys that punish their forwards, all our guys are cuddly shut down dmen.

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Old
04-03-2011, 11:52 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Yup he brings an entirely different dynamic. He moves the puck pretty well, but I also love when he carries it through the neutral zone. Also his pinching down low is well times.

Subban Markov and Wisniewski all have good offensive games, but the way they comport themselves offensively is very different from one another. They each have their own distinct styles which will make Montreal an extremely dangerous team in aspect of offensive from defensemen.

We have Gorges secured as a solid shutdown defensive defense. If I'm Montreal I'd look into bringing in a younger defensive defensemen with good footspeed to play with Wisniewski.

Markov Gorges
Defensive D Wisniewski
Defensive D Subban

one guy I'd definitely look at bringing in is Jan Hejda, good defensive defensemen with size. He's a little older though.
my dream defense next year :

Markov - Gorges
Emelin - Wiz
Gill (or someone else) - Subban

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Old
04-03-2011, 12:01 PM
  #37
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As a fan, I'd like to have Wiz back because with Markov, Subban, Wiz and maybe even Weber, we'd have many puck-moving, offensive d-men. Our offense right now is so bad and our slow defensive d-men don't provide much transition game and therefore always seem stuck in their own territory.

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Old
04-03-2011, 12:04 PM
  #38
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We blew it by allowing Streit to walk and our powerplay tanked until we acquired Schneider. How about we do not make a similar mistake? Sign The Wiz.

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Old
04-03-2011, 12:04 PM
  #39
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Guys, don't forget we still have Spatcho under contract next year.

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Old
04-03-2011, 12:08 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by parachutist View Post
Guys, don't forget we still have Spatcho under contract next year.
I know, that's the problem I've been thinking of this entire time.

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Old
04-03-2011, 12:17 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
I'd like for people to explain me exactly how is Wiz gritty ?

Really, he's pretty soft and small. Doesn't drop the gloves or "defends" his teammates (I know he has a cage now, but it wasn't always like that).

Is it because he's North american ?

Of course, he's grittier than Streit... who isn't... but don't make him out to be this big gritty physical presence.

He's too small and not good enough defensively to be effective with Markov. He has a great shot, but he's RH... not ideal with Markov on the PP.

He's a puck-moving Top 4 defenceman... but we already have 2 if Markov re-signs (which I hope).

Even at Streit's money, I wouldn't want him back.

Streit is a much better defenceman than people think... but even now, I wouldn't want him either... for the same reasons that I don't want Wiz back.
Career-wise he averages 1.65 hits per game. Take that and extrapolate it over a full season here and he'd probably lead the team in hits.

And he does fight: http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/2111

Obviously we won't see much of that because 1. he's wearing a cage, and 2. Montreal as a team doesn't fight much.

But he's a very respectable fighter.

And if you just want to look at gritty in the most basic sense, he took a puck to the face and didn't miss a beat.

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Old
04-03-2011, 12:31 PM
  #42
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Wiz really isn't that bad defensively... he's just prone to making mistakes with the puck sometimes. That's the way it is sometimes with an offensive defensemen.

I think Wiz is much better and much grittier defensively than Streit was with us.

I'm all in favor of re-signing Wiz at a reasonable price. Around 4M a season sounds good to me.

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Old
04-03-2011, 12:49 PM
  #43
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One thing people aren't considering as well is that Wizz fits in really well with the current group of players in the locker room. He's an outspoken, funny, social kind of guy, working well with guys like Gill, Moen, Gomez, Cammalleri, Gorges, Subban, Price, etc. that we have. I think that dynamic is important as well, especially to get through slumps like that 3 game shutout streak. When the players are supporting each other and have open communication, it helps them focus.

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04-03-2011, 01:05 PM
  #44
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I was of those who were happy to see Streit not signed at 4M. I thought he really didn't deserve this kind of money.

Then when we signed MAB and watched Streit doing so great in NYI. We shouldn't make the same mistake twice. Wiz is a keeper imo.

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Old
04-03-2011, 01:09 PM
  #45
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If you ice a top 4 of Markov Subban Wizniewski and Spacek (yes, Spacek, he's signed for one more season) you'd have a very competitive team offensively imo. When Spacek is your worst offensive D you know you're doing okay. Also if we do somehow get Hammer for a discount (maybe he wants to retire here and win a cup, who knows) then Hammer would be in our top 4 and Spacek would get limited ice time on the 3rd pairing with a guy like Weber. Gill walks. Get a cheap dependable #7d or call up Carle. To me that's very solid and decent depth. Let Mara and Sopel both walk. I'm not a big fan of either, I'd keep Mara maybe as a #7 though if he came cheap. Of course I'd be keeping Gorges though which definitely makes a few of the people above expendable.

I like Wiz more than Streit. He is better offensively imo, just hasn't had a chance to prove it yet on a stacked offensive team.

Maybe something like:

Markov-Gorges
Subban-Wiz
Hammer-Spacek
#7d

or

Markov-Subban
Spacek/Hammer-Wiz (proper side for Spacek for once)
Spacek/Hammer-Gorges
#7d

That's definitely decent especially if Mara is that #7 D I would guess, just because of the fact that he brings something physical for those games you'll need him and it adds depth.

All in all if we could get Markov and Wiz signed, we'd be stacked offensively on the back end. Who knows what a healthy roster would do for us. Also I think Gomez would automatically be a lot better with Markov on the back end helping him. He tries to do too much now, hence why he fails.

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Old
04-03-2011, 02:22 PM
  #46
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Streit was weak on defense when he first came up. He worked on his defense and improved but never got another chance to show it with the habs. Carbonneau had strengths and weaknesses and one of his weaknesses was sticking with his initial impression of players no matter what they did later.

Martin seems to do the same at times, unfortunately.

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Old
04-03-2011, 02:36 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
People say he's gritty because compared to our other defencemen he actually goes out there and throws body checks. Our other defencemen just rub out the forwards as they come down whereas Wiz actually will take them out with a hit.

But your right, he does lack the size. Imagine if Hamrlik and Gill took the initiative and threw hits like Wiz. Spacek does once in a while and has the size but not nearly enough.

Thats why we are soft on d, we lack guys that punish their forwards, all our guys are cuddly shut down dmen.
Exactly, bu then again Gill is too slow to hit, if he would be going for more hits he would always be out of position and it could be ugly. Hamrlik was pretty physical in his first two seasons with us I think the age is starting to slow him down alot and especially on this area.

We should sign guys like Brewer, O'brien, Ericsson, Bieksa, Alberts, Vandermeer, Pardy to at least bring some nastyness on the blueline.

Markov(1 year -5,5)-Gorges(3 years -2,8)
Ericsson(3 years -2,1)-Subban( 875 000)
O'brien(2 years -1,5)-Wisniewski (4 years -4,25)
Weber(2 years 1,1 )

Total : 18,125 millions - it's pretty cheap considering it would be a quality defensive corp.

Could be a very nice mobile gritty physical Dcorp with alot of puck moving abilities and offensive output. And it would way younger.


Last edited by Forsead: 04-03-2011 at 02:46 PM.
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Old
04-03-2011, 03:15 PM
  #48
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Except for the fact Streit has been out this whole year, I'd take him everyday before the Wiz. Might be less offensive but better defensively and is still a great player with a mediocre team(I'm talking about the Islanders of the past few years because the future looks bright)

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Old
04-03-2011, 03:16 PM
  #49
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We should ask an Islanders fan, who have also seen both of them play on their team

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Old
04-03-2011, 03:34 PM
  #50
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Streit and it's not close. I actually watched him with the Islanders during the last couple of years. He's a top pairing D now.

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