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Old
04-04-2011, 04:57 PM
  #51
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He has 18 goals this year on 98 shots.

Prior to this season, he had 11 goals on 131 shots.

Unless you believe he's going to keep up with Crosby and Datsyuk and post 18+ shooting percentages, he's not going to score 20 goals ever again (and still hasn't this year)

Is he a solid defensive player? Yes. When you consider he was traded for a guy out of the organization now, was it a poor trade? Yes. Does one season with fluke numbers on a team giving him a chance mean he'd be doing the same for the Rangers? Probably not.

Get over it.

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04-04-2011, 05:31 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
no. i do not.

i blame lisin's inability to produce enough points. bottom line, he didnt score enough to keep him playing top 6 minutes. he isnt a bottom 6 type player. he had no place to play in a torts system.

i do blame torts for how he handles himself and offensive euro players. even a guy like prospal has a love/hate relationship with him.

as i said many times before, there can be room for guys who dont always play a 2 way game if they score enough to warrant the ice. problem is, with torts, your ice goes away, along with your production, if he thinks you arent playing his 2 way game.

i see the same happening now with wolski.
Gotta disagree with you here. It would be one thing if this team lacked depth, but they have a decent enough squad that there's no room for someone to not play well without getting benched. Wolski was getting a good amount of ice time when he was playing well. He then just stopped producing and his ice time got cut.

Lisin's hockey IQ was just way to low to survive in the NHL.

As for Prospal, I know there were issues when he was in Tampa Bay playing under Torts but since he got to NY i'm pretty sure its been mostly love between the two.

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04-04-2011, 06:47 PM
  #53
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I liked Korpedo and was upset when we traded him. Good speed, good in the bords, def would be better than W2 or even Christ at this point. I dont know why people are denying it was a bad trade, u can never have enough guys like Korpedo it was a terrible trade period. Why argue that.

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04-04-2011, 06:54 PM
  #54
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Korpy was the victim of a "need a quick change" trade by Sather.

This was done before the "let the kids play" team we have now...

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04-05-2011, 11:16 AM
  #55
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I do think we gave up too soon. I understand that Slat was probably thinking he is kind of similar like Cally or Dubby.......so he became expandable. Had he stayed, he would help for sure.

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04-05-2011, 11:58 AM
  #56
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Korpikoski wanted out. The threat to leave for Russia was real. That much I was able to confirm. Can't tell you whether it was because he was unhappy with his ice time, unhappy with his role, or unhappy with Torts, but he didn't want to be here and forced Sather's hand by threatening to go to the KHL.

Slats didn't have a choice. He got what he could for him.

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04-05-2011, 12:14 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by squishy View Post
Korpikoski wanted out. The threat to leave for Russia was real. That much I was able to confirm. Can't tell you whether it was because he was unhappy with his ice time, unhappy with his role, or unhappy with Torts, but he didn't want to be here and forced Sather's hand by threatening to go to the KHL.

Slats didn't have a choice. He got what he could for him.
This.

Players who put up 4th line production do not usually have much trade value to start with. When you add in a possible defection it drops to next to zero.

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04-05-2011, 01:19 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squishy View Post
Korpikoski wanted out. The threat to leave for Russia was real. That much I was able to confirm. Can't tell you whether it was because he was unhappy with his ice time, unhappy with his role, or unhappy with Torts, but he didn't want to be here and forced Sather's hand by threatening to go to the KHL.

Slats didn't have a choice. He got what he could for him.
Is it possible you are EVER fed the wrong info?

He wanted out of NY so he could just end up in PHOENIX playing for that pillar of NHL franchise stability and NOT going to the KHL?

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04-05-2011, 01:41 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Is it possible you are EVER fed the wrong info?

He wanted out of NY so he could just end up in PHOENIX playing for that pillar of NHL franchise stability and NOT going to the KHL?
Something was definitely up. He was pretty aggressive in his first RFA negotiations, which you wouldn't usually do unless you (a) want to go, or (b) have Nik Zherdev's disease (a debilitating condition). In addition, I think he signed in Phoenix for less than he was going for with the Rangers.

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04-05-2011, 02:38 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Is it possible you are EVER fed the wrong info?

He wanted out of NY so he could just end up in PHOENIX playing for that pillar of NHL franchise stability and NOT going to the KHL?
Why would anyone make up stories about Korpikoski? When a team trades 3rd/4th liners they do not have to invent reasons.

And I do not much get the Phoenix comment. This is not a team playing for an independent league that can go defunct at any time. Phoenix (or whatever city the franchise plays in) will continue to be an NHL team and continue to pay its players. Stability is irrelevant, if anything the lack thereof is perfect for a guy like Korps, who can pretty much be guaranteed an NHL spot.

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Old
04-05-2011, 03:23 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squishy View Post
Korpikoski wanted out. The threat to leave for Russia was real. That much I was able to confirm. Can't tell you whether it was because he was unhappy with his ice time, unhappy with his role, or unhappy with Torts, but he didn't want to be here and forced Sather's hand by threatening to go to the KHL.

Slats didn't have a choice. He got what he could for him.
pretty much what i heard and what ive stated many time before on this subject.

seems to me, at the time, slats did as well as he could for a guy who wanted out and hadnt done much to date.

didnt work out. time to turn the page.

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04-05-2011, 03:32 PM
  #62
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Another wasted 1st rounder, believe the ******** if ya want, everything in the kids character and his actions has said differently than reported, all the proof I need to know that Torts was not a fan so they want you to believe he was in it for the money grab, when in fact he wouldve been worth double that on this team the last two years.

Wasted pick, another clear cut Sather failure that you could see coming the day it was made.

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04-05-2011, 04:15 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Torts made up his mind right away, meanwhile a very good coach like Tippett was patient and reaps the rewards now that the 24(!!) year old is a player to be reckoned with.

The problem was thinking LK was just another depth forward. Clearly he's been anything but.

Thankfully we didn't need a versatile forward this year with all our good health, great move Satherella
exactly.

Jackass Torts didn't like Korpedo from the get-go.

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04-05-2011, 04:33 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Another wasted 1st rounder, believe the ******** if ya want, everything in the kids character and his actions has said differently than reported, all the proof I need to know that Torts was not a fan so they want you to believe he was in it for the money grab, when in fact he wouldve been worth double that on this team the last two years.
.
What did his actions and character say exactly?

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Jackass Torts didn't like Korpedo from the get-go.
Really? Based on what evidence do we attribute this allegation?

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04-05-2011, 04:50 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
He has 18 goals this year on 98 shots.

Prior to this season, he had 11 goals on 131 shots.

Unless you believe he's going to keep up with Crosby and Datsyuk and post 18+ shooting percentages, he's not going to score 20 goals ever again (and still hasn't this year)

Is he a solid defensive player? Yes. When you consider he was traded for a guy out of the organization now, was it a poor trade? Yes. Does one season with fluke numbers on a team giving him a chance mean he'd be doing the same for the Rangers? Probably not.

Get over it.
This...I doubt he has another season like this. It brings up an interesting question. Say you have a guy who you developed as a top prospect. First two years he puts up 30 points per year on the second line. Third year he puts up 80 points on that same line. Figuring he'd build off that year (and the fanbase is of course in love with him), you put him on a top line and he puts up say 35 points each of the following two years. If you had a time a machine, would you rather have played the five year stretch with him (that one season was quite remarkable)? Or, having the foresight about the aggravating inconsistency that was to come, would you have dumped him in year 1?

This is the ultimate question about Korpikoski...we invested one NHL year in him where he was nothing to write home about. Phoenix did the same. Year 3, he puts up a good year (for him). If he goes out next year and puts up 20 or 25 points again, will you still regret not having him for the one year he was productive? What if he put up 20-25 points next year AND the year after? At what point does a peak season offset the time invested and aggravation? Niklas Bergfors (formerly of the Devils) was a similar prospect, and he had a much higher expected up-side than Korpedo. The Devils traded him for Kovalchuk in the middle of his best season, and they made off like bandits (he really hasn't become a star in Atlanta or Florida).


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04-05-2011, 05:31 PM
  #66
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Ok, I'm a Devils fan (don't mean to troll) but I don't think the Rangers should beat themselves up over it too much. Up unti this year, he was pretty useless in my opinion

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04-05-2011, 06:10 PM
  #67
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Ok, I'm a Devils fan (don't mean to troll) but I don't think the Rangers should beat themselves up over it too much. Up unti this year, he was pretty useless in my opinion
Most 23 yr olds are useless

I think your opinion is wrong if you're saying he didn't contribute anything. Game is played on ice, not paper where everyone points to when mentioning his years prior to this one. He's always showed he can compete at a high level, but he was still a boy growing into the player we see today, the 24 yr old LK that if we had this famous Sather patience with he'd be a leader for this team now with all the other top youngsters.

Last year down the stretch Tippett played Korpikoski against the Wests toughest opponents, why? Cause he is mediocre and a non difference maker?

This year he was a leader and key contributor to one of the leagues top teams. And some of you tell me its a byproduct of his minutes!!??

24 yrs old and one of the tougher players to play against in the West, but who cares, numbers are needed, not winners.

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04-05-2011, 06:34 PM
  #68
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Korp was one of my favorite Wolf Pack players ever, always thought highly of him. But you can't say he'd be succeeding the same with the Rangers as he is with the Coyotes.

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04-05-2011, 06:35 PM
  #69
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dont underestimate the torts factor. if he doesnt like you, you are history.

zherdev. lisin. korpi. bobby sangs. kotalik. and now perhaps mza.

korpi wanted out but i dont think it was for the money at all. i think it was a career decision. he wanted away from an organization he felt wasnt going to give him a fair shake and a coach who he didnt want to play for.

if slats knew he wanted out, he did well getting something in return for a guy he could have lost to the khl.

looks like korpi made the right call.

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04-05-2011, 07:20 PM
  #70
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dont underestimate the torts factor. if he doesnt like you, you are history.

zherdev. lisin. korpi. bobby sangs. kotalik. and now perhaps mza.
By what criteria to you determine who he likes and doesn't like? By playing time? Is not playing a player as a coach the same as not liking a player personally? I have a hard time understanding how fans are distinguishing the difference. If I was a head coach, I wouldn't play Enver Lisin either, because he was not a responsible player and was quite inconsistent. That's called the business of the game, not having personal vendettas....

Quote:
korpi wanted out but i dont think it was for the money at all. i think it was a career decision. he wanted away from an organization he felt wasnt going to give him a fair shake and a coach who he didnt want to play for.

looks like korpi made the right call.
How is Korpikoski's situation any different than what Brian Boyle went through? Was Brian Boyle hated by Torts because Torts said he thought Boyle was on the outs and AHL fodder at the end of last season? How come no one is drawing that conclusion? Why isn't Boyle on your list of players who are history? What did Brian Boyle do when he was on the outside looking in? He worked his tail off in the off-season, came into camp and proved he belonged on the team, and now he's a key member of the team playing in all game situations and filling an important role.... Lauri Korpikoski was apparently incapable of coming into camp and earning a role on our team?

Sounds to me like some of these players didn't have what it takes to EARN their roles on the team.... This isn't some arbitrary game where the coach singles out players for no reason and extends unfair treatment to them. Notice how the coach rewards players who are playing well with more playing time, and demotes players who aren't playing well by giving them less playing time, and this is independent of age, experience, contract, reputation? Seems pretty fair to me.... What's not to like about that system? The same system landed our $7 mil a year center and captain on the 4th line, landed our 2nd year defensemen Del Zotto back in Hartford, afforded first line opportunities to players like Christensen and Avery when their play warranted it, and rewarded 1st year rookies Sauer & McDonagh with consistent 2nd pairing minutes. This is the type of system that encourages players to play to the best of their ability, because they know they'll be rewarded for it. They know they won't be buried in the line-up behind underperforming vets with more experience/expectations regardless of how those vets perform. They know there's no favorites and that you earn your keep on this team.... Players who get demoted in the line-up have incentive to improve their play because they know they'll be bumped right back up the line-up when they do. It encourages prototypical 4th lines to play hard because they know it will result in increased minutes. It encourages top 6 forwards to continue to play hard because they know they'll find themselves on the 3rd and 4th lines if their play suffers. This is exactly the type of system that Scott Gomez would hate and Scott Gomez is exactly the type of player that most of us fans can't stand. The type of player who looks like he's just showing up to work to collect a paycheck and who's effort level seldom varies in relation to his level of play when he slumps.


Last edited by wolfgaze: 04-05-2011 at 07:39 PM.
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04-05-2011, 07:23 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
dont underestimate the torts factor. if he doesnt like you, you are history.

zherdev. lisin. korpi. bobby sangs. kotalik. and now perhaps mza.
Yeah? They all ****ing suck outside of MZA and Korpedo.

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04-05-2011, 08:47 PM
  #72
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Most 23 yr olds are useless

I think your opinion is wrong if you're saying he didn't contribute anything. Game is played on ice, not paper where everyone points to when mentioning his years prior to this one. He's always showed he can compete at a high level, but he was still a boy growing into the player we see today, the 24 yr old LK that if we had this famous Sather patience with he'd be a leader for this team now with all the other top youngsters.

Last year down the stretch Tippett played Korpikoski against the Wests toughest opponents, why? Cause he is mediocre and a non difference maker?

This year he was a leader and key contributor to one of the leagues top teams. And some of you tell me its a byproduct of his minutes!!??

24 yrs old and one of the tougher players to play against in the West, but who cares, numbers are needed, not winners.

You might be right. I didn't really see him play too much, only about ten or twelve games in total. I actually think he might have been a bit like Peeley on the Devils is now back when he was on the rangers. Defense, board work but not to good offensively. This season though, he has been excellent and really took a step forward.

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04-06-2011, 12:39 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Most 23 yr olds are useless

I think your opinion is wrong if you're saying he didn't contribute anything. Game is played on ice, not paper where everyone points to when mentioning his years prior to this one. He's always showed he can compete at a high level, but he was still a boy growing into the player we see today, the 24 yr old LK that if we had this famous Sather patience with he'd be a leader for this team now with all the other top youngsters.

Last year down the stretch Tippett played Korpikoski against the Wests toughest opponents, why? Cause he is mediocre and a non difference maker?

This year he was a leader and key contributor to one of the leagues top teams. And some of you tell me its a byproduct of his minutes!!??

24 yrs old and one of the tougher players to play against in the West, but who cares, numbers are needed, not winners.
Bingo! couldint of said it better myself. Points isnt everything and a guy like that would be real nice right now. Those finish players play a very tough and grindy role and now he even adds good scoring ability, well hes showing why he was picked so high. Unfortunately on another team because we gave up on his so early for no apparent reason other than he wanted out. Please dont give me the we have Cally or Dubi that play the same role because u can never have enough guys like that esp when one gets hurt i.e Cally. These are just the subtle trades that Sather does and gets no **** for it. Goes down as another terrible trade in my book.

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04-06-2011, 01:41 AM
  #74
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Korpedos goals this year include 4 GWG, 3 tying goals, 2 goals to take the lead and 4 goals to stretch the lead to 2 goals. Furthermore, only 2 of Korpedos goals were scored when Phoenix was leading by more than 2 goals. Talk about clutch!

Was sad to see him go but I'm not overly angry at Sather, not the worst he's done. Have to be happy as a Finn tho to see him grow, as the future of our NT doesn't look too bright right now.

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04-06-2011, 02:51 AM
  #75
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Yeah? They all ****ing suck outside of MZA and Korpedo.
Yep true. Im happy for him that he made a huge step this season and his development. I always liked Lauri and Im curious what he can do the next seasons. Maybe hell be a big suprise?! Who knows...

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