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Phoenix Part XXXI: I feel I'm in a time loop

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04-05-2011, 09:29 AM
  #976
Tommy Hawk
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Originally Posted by Retail1LO View Post
What's interesting is that 1 and 2 each only have one professional team. 5, 6, and 7 have zero.
I am not sure what you mean by "only one professional team". Do you mean NHL, hockey, other major league sports (NBA, MLB, NFL, etc.) or just professional sports?

Both Connecticut and Wisconsin have AHL teams. Wisconsin has NFL, NBA, and MLB teams.

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04-05-2011, 09:37 AM
  #977
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Originally Posted by Fidel Astro View Post
I thought we were over this whole "Winnipeg has nothing going for it" garbage. The city was named Cultural Capital of Canada in 2010 (as an example). Surely, one would think, that indicates at least something interesting takes place here.

...and where does this "if you can't go outside" notion come from? Yes, it's cold as balls here, but we still go outside all the time. Where do you think all of those Hall of Famers from Manitoba learned to play hockey? Do you think Terry Sawchuk was playing on outdoor ice in Winnipeg in the summer? Just because it's cold, that doesn't mean everyone is locked in their homes, hibernating until spring. We're outside on a regular basis, all year round.

On a related topic, has anyone posted this little item yet? (http://www.fiveforhowling.com/2011/4...se-for-phoenix) It's from a Coyotes fan site, and although the headline says "the case for Phoenix," it's full of little digs at Winnipeg, particularly at the weather.



...and this one is particularly nasty, despite the writer's attempt to say 'nice' things about Winnipeg:



This is the kind of crap that is typical from the pro-Phoenix (or should I say "anti-Winnipeg") crowd, and it's very frustrating. It makes it sound like we're some frozen wasteland for "most of the year" and that our very active winter season -- which, again, is a time most of us spent playing hockey as kids, which is the sport we're taking about here -- is "rarely appreciated."

Sorry, champ. I'm a Winnipegger who actually likes the winter, and I'm certainly not the only one. Our winters are a big part of the reason why I appreciate living in Winnipeg and why I don't want to move. It's not like everyone's stuck here. The vast majority of Winnipeggers live in this city by choice, and that's something the Phoenix fans don't seem to understand. They seem to think we were just dumped here by some unfortunate turn of fate, and we all want to pack up and move to somewhere warmer at a moment's notice.

Very, very irritating.

lack of culture or full of culture isn't going to determine whether or not a team relocates to a certain area. Does anyone think Green Bay, WI is full of cultural activities? The only thing that matters is the following:

1) willful, financed owner
2) suitable building
3) solid fan base

That's the criteria right there. Not whether or not a particular city has museums, waterparks & other such things.

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04-05-2011, 09:43 AM
  #978
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The NHL has worked hard to keep the Coyotes in Phoenix despite numerous roadblocks, and will not pull the plug on a deal here until after the Coyotes season ends.
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/m...determine.html

Wouldn't it be great if Daly or Bettman had actually said this, straight up. Our questions would be answered, and end all speculation. However, it is evident that the NHL is not keen on giving any leverage to the GWI. But it would be in the best interest of the players, the fans and the game to have a concrete plan going forward. And also, it would give the TNSE group a leg up on the upcoming season. IF relocation is indeed the reality. It's time.


Last edited by RAgIn: 04-05-2011 at 09:51 AM.
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04-05-2011, 09:45 AM
  #979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidel Astro View Post
I thought we were over this whole "Winnipeg has nothing going for it" garbage. The city was named Cultural Capital of Canada in 2010 (as an example). Surely, one would think, that indicates at least something interesting takes place here.

...and where does this "if you can't go outside" notion come from? Yes, it's cold as balls here, but we still go outside all the time. Where do you think all of those Hall of Famers from Manitoba learned to play hockey? Do you think Terry Sawchuk was playing on outdoor ice in Winnipeg in the summer? Just because it's cold, that doesn't mean everyone is locked in their homes, hibernating until spring. We're outside on a regular basis, all year round.

On a related topic, has anyone posted this little item yet? (http://www.fiveforhowling.com/2011/4...se-for-phoenix) It's from a Coyotes fan site, and although the headline says "the case for Phoenix," it's full of little digs at Winnipeg, particularly at the weather.



...and this one is particularly nasty, despite the writer's attempt to say 'nice' things about Winnipeg:



This is the kind of crap that is typical from the pro-Phoenix (or should I say "anti-Winnipeg") crowd, and it's very frustrating. It makes it sound like we're some frozen wasteland for "most of the year" and that our very active winter season -- which, again, is a time most of us spent playing hockey as kids, which is the sport we're taking about here -- is "rarely appreciated."

Sorry, champ. I'm a Winnipegger who actually likes the winter, and I'm certainly not the only one. Our winters are a big part of the reason why I appreciate living in Winnipeg and why I don't want to move. It's not like everyone's stuck here. The vast majority of Winnipeggers live in this city by choice, and that's something the Phoenix fans don't seem to understand. They seem to think we were just dumped here by some unfortunate turn of fate, and we all want to pack up and move to somewhere warmer at a moment's notice.

Very, very irritating.

That's been one of the really sad things about this mess dragging on for two years, two years of people in Winnipeg hoping the team would return. two years of people in Phoenix hearing the team might go back to Winnipeg. We get this back and forth sniping between people in both cities that's gone from childish to nasty.

There are a number of people to blame for the mess but it's not the fans in Winnipeg or Phoenix. True hockey fans in both cities just want a team to cheer for.

Gary Bettman sees himself as this guru of hockey and a genius who saw the league expand south. In reality he has done as much to hurt the game especially in Canada as he has helped. Even if the team stays in Glendale there will be a lot of garbage to deal with there lawsuits etc. which will in the news for another two years.

I'm hopelessly biased towards seeing a team return to Winnipeg but regardless hockey fans everywhere especially in Phoenix and Winnipeg deserved a lot better the Bettman's circus.


Last edited by Donwood: 04-05-2011 at 09:47 AM. Reason: Spelling
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Old
04-05-2011, 09:46 AM
  #980
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04-05-2011, 09:47 AM
  #981
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Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
Phoenix Part XXXII: Hide ya Bonds, Hide Ya Wife, Cuz they relocatin everyone out here
Best Post Ever......

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04-05-2011, 09:53 AM
  #982
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Part XXXII - What's love got to do with it?
Part XXXII - things to do in Phoenix when you're dead
Part XXXII - Hulsizers Heroes starring Scruggs as Klink, Gary Bettman as Burkhalter, Daley as Schultz, Olsen as Hochsteter.

We should have use Part XXX - 30 days in the hole......

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04-05-2011, 10:02 AM
  #983
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04-05-2011, 10:08 AM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Phxprods View Post
Gary Bettman sees himself as this guru of hockey and a genius who saw the league expand south. In reality he has done as much to hurt the game especially in Canada as he has helped. Even if the team stays in Glendale there will be a lot of garbage to deal with there lawsuits etc. which will in the news for another two years.

I'm hopelessly biased towards seeing a team return to Winnipeg but regardless hockey fans everywhere especially in Phoenix and Winnipeg deserved a lot better the Bettman's circus.
Actually Bettman sees himself as nothing of the sort and was responsible for very little of the expansion south, and in reality has done far more to help the game, even in Canada, than he has done to "hurt" it, especially for you since without him, there would be NO chance of a team returning to Winnipeg. You should be thanking him, not hating him.

And if there is any circus, it's because the Canadian sports media has created one, not the league.

Just some actual facts, I didn't mean to derail your rant with the truth.

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04-05-2011, 10:09 AM
  #985
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Part XXXII: GoldWater - Sell? No Glendale Bonds, we expect you to die.

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04-05-2011, 10:13 AM
  #986
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Old
04-05-2011, 10:18 AM
  #987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
Actually Bettman sees himself as nothing of the sort and was responsible for very little of the expansion south, and in reality has done far more to help the game, even in Canada, than he has done to "hurt" it, especially for you since without him, there would be NO chance of a team returning to Winnipeg. You should be thanking him, not hating him.

And if there is any circus, it's because the Canadian sports media has created one, not the league.

Just some actual facts, I didn't mean to derail your rant with the truth.
So the 2 year mess with the bonds, parking rights, threats of lawsuits, etc etc, are just a figment of the Canadian medias imagination. thank you so much for setting me straight.

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04-05-2011, 10:21 AM
  #988
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Phoenix Part XXXII: All Silent On The Sourthern Front

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04-05-2011, 10:21 AM
  #989
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Originally Posted by edog37 View Post
lack of culture or full of culture isn't going to determine whether or not a team relocates to a certain area. Does anyone think Green Bay, WI is full of cultural activities? The only thing that matters is the following:

1) willful, financed owner
2) suitable building
3) solid fan base

That's the criteria right there. Not whether or not a particular city has museums, waterparks & other such things.
I don't think anyone was talking about culture (or lack thereof) having an impact on whether a team is going to move. I was only responding to the argument that is regularly brought up by Phoenix supporters about Winnipeg being an "undesirable" place to live.

...but going by your criteria, Winnipeg meets all three, while Phoenix only meets "suitable building."

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04-05-2011, 10:32 AM
  #990
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Just wondering... we know that the NHL wants to sell the Coyotes for about 210 Million, which includes 2 years of operational losses. Do we even know that TNSE has offered 210 Million ? I would be inclined to think that TNSE offered 140 Million (or there abouts) for the Atlanta franchise. All we really know is that TNSE made a "bonifide offer" for the Coyotes last year. Why on earth not pay 70 million less for an NHL franchise. Chipman and Thompson may be rich, but they're not stupid.
The MH deal, as smelly as it is, might represent the only way Bettman can recoupe the money for his BoG. Still not right to screw the tax payer for it though.
I just have the feeling that if TNSE really did offer the full 210 Million that Bettman would accept it and leave this unholy mess behind very quickly.

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04-05-2011, 10:34 AM
  #991
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Originally Posted by Evil Doctor View Post
Phoenix Part XXXII: I feel I'm in a time loop
Phoenix Part XXXII: CoG "Snap out of it!"

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04-05-2011, 10:36 AM
  #992
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
Actually Bettman sees himself as nothing of the sort and was responsible for very little of the expansion south, and in reality has done far more to help the game, even in Canada, than he has done to "hurt" it, especially for you since without him, there would be NO chance of a team returning to Winnipeg. You should be thanking him, not hating him.

And if there is any circus, it's because the Canadian sports media has created one, not the league.

Just some actual facts, I didn't mean to derail your rant with the truth.
While a lot of this is accurate, I still don't think Bettman should be let off the hook so easily. Whether he was the mastermind behind the departures of the Jets and Nordiques or not, he was the public face of the league at the time of a lot of controversial relocations.

Bettman was always very vocal about his desire to see the NHL expand to the sunbelt, and for many of us in traditional markets -- especially in traditional markets where our teams were relocated to the south -- it seems like the quest for new fans was done at the expense of the existing fans, and Bettman has never really apologized for the slight.

It's a "hey, you guys are going to watch hockey no matter what, so we can **** on you, make no effort to retain your support, and you'll still give us your money" kind of attitude.

I don't think anyone really considers Bettman to be the Great Evil Villain solely responsible for moving the Jets, but his total lack of compassion for the plight of the fans up here -- combined with his ridiculously excessive efforts to keep the team in Phoenix, where it's unappreciated -- means he's pretty much a universally disliked figure around these parts.

If he had tried, or even appeared to try saving the Jets with even half as much passion as he's showing for the Coyotes, he might be more respected as someone who did what he could but ultimately failed due to the negative economic situation at the time.

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04-05-2011, 10:50 AM
  #993
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04-05-2011, 11:06 AM
  #994
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Originally Posted by Fidel Astro View Post
It's a "hey, you guys are going to watch hockey no matter what, so we can **** on you, make no effort to retain your support, and you'll still give us your money" kind of attitude.
So don't watch hockey. Have a little self-respect.

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04-05-2011, 11:09 AM
  #995
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So don't watch hockey. Have a little self-respect.
I didn't watch the NHL for a number of years after the Jets left.

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04-05-2011, 11:16 AM
  #996
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04-05-2011, 11:23 AM
  #997
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Part XXXII - My Parents Went To Phoenix, And All I Got Was This Lousy Bond.

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04-05-2011, 11:28 AM
  #998
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Part XXXII - My Parents Went To Phoenix, And All I Got Was This Lousy Bond.

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04-05-2011, 11:30 AM
  #999
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Phoenix Part XXXII: All Silent On The Sourthern Front
Duh, Winning!

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04-05-2011, 11:36 AM
  #1000
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Originally Posted by Fidel Astro View Post
While a lot of this is accurate, I still don't think Bettman should be let off the hook so easily. Whether he was the mastermind behind the departures of the Jets and Nordiques or not, he was the public face of the league at the time of a lot of controversial relocations.

Bettman was always very vocal about his desire to see the NHL expand to the sunbelt, and for many of us in traditional markets -- especially in traditional markets where our teams were relocated to the south -- it seems like the quest for new fans was done at the expense of the existing fans, and Bettman has never really apologized for the slight.

It's a "hey, you guys are going to watch hockey no matter what, so we can **** on you, make no effort to retain your support, and you'll still give us your money" kind of attitude.

I don't think anyone really considers Bettman to be the Great Evil Villain solely responsible for moving the Jets, but his total lack of compassion for the plight of the fans up here -- combined with his ridiculously excessive efforts to keep the team in Phoenix, where it's unappreciated -- means he's pretty much a universally disliked figure around these parts.

If he had tried, or even appeared to try saving the Jets with even half as much passion as he's showing for the Coyotes, he might be more respected as someone who did what he could but ultimately failed due to the negative economic situation at the time.
That's what get's me is his obsessiveness to keep this team in a market where this team loses 30million a year. It's not like they have just started out and need time, they are not going to get any better even if the team is a winner.

Does he think things will have a miracle and turn around

How much money do they have to lose before he gives this up. He really expects buyers to come and keep this team in Phoenix. He's dangerously close to being mad

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