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Which prospects will remain future Senators

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04-05-2011, 11:37 AM
  #1
Karlstrobe
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Which prospects will remain future Senators

It is interesting to see all these young prospects coming into Ottawa`s system since BM became the Sens GM (and to some later extent Muckler).

We have Butler, Da Costa, Greening, Condra, Smith, Winchester, Stone, Silfverberg, Caporusso, Petersson, O`Brien, Wick, Dziurzynski, Sorensen, Culek, Hoffman, Rundblad, Cowen, Gryba, Wiercioch, Grant, and Blood to name a few. Obviously they wont all be on the team and most might underachieve. So which prospects do you think will be on the Sens for years to come. I could see us trading a few prospects for proven talents and keeping the gems but right now it is a hard call.

Players I want to stick around:
Butler, Da Costa, Wick, Petersson, Stone, Greening, Condra and Silfverberg
Rundblad, Cowen, Gryba, Blood to some extent

The rest of our farm could stick in the AHL or be traded and it wouldnt bother me but these guys I want around for a long time. What do you want your future Sens to look like (prospect wise).


Last edited by Karlstrobe: 04-05-2011 at 11:53 AM.
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04-05-2011, 11:51 AM
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Curtinho
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Um...I think Greening has looked the best out of anyone called up. I'd say him.

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04-05-2011, 11:54 AM
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trentmccleary
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Meh, we're building up an offense from nothing... but seem to have a lot of decent forward prospects.

Basically just have to wait and see what happens.

Primary scorers:
Spezza
Alfie (to eventually be replaced by 2011 Top-5 pick)
Michalek (until we find somebody to bump in down the lineup or he goes back healthy 25 g/60-ish point seasons).

2nd/3rd and 4th lines
Made up of a Battle Royal, pick 'em of all of these players/ prospects over the next few seasons based on earning their way from the 4th line of Bingo up as far as the 2nd line in Ottawa.

No expectations, no favorites... just players starting off on an equal footing and winning competitions against each other to sort out the hierarchy of this team's future lineup. AKA: a few years of tryouts.

Nick Foligno
Erik Condra
Colin Greening
Roman Wick
Mike Hoffman
David Dziurzynski
Jakob Silfverberg
Jakub Culek

Peter Regin
Zack Smith
Jesse Winchester
Stephane Da Costa
Jim O'Brien
Derek Grant
Wacey Hamilton
Louie Caporusso

Chris Neil
Bobby Butler
Kaspars Daugavins
Andre Petersson
Mark Stone
Marcus Sorensen

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04-05-2011, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Meh, we're building up an offense from nothing... but seem to have a lot of decent forward prospects.

Basically just have to wait and see what happens.

Primary scorers:
Spezza
Alfie (to eventually be replaced by 2011 Top-5 pick)
Michalek (until we find somebody to bump in down the lineup or he goes back healthy 25 g/60-ish point seasons).

2nd/3rd and 4th lines
Made up of a Battle Royal, pick 'em of all of these players/ prospects over the next few seasons based on earning their way from the 4th line of Bingo up as far as the 2nd line in Ottawa.

No expectations, no favorites... just players starting off on an equal footing and winning competitions against each other to sort out the hierarchy of this team's future lineup. AKA: a few years of tryouts.

Nick Foligno
Erik Condra
Colin Greening

Roman Wick
Mike Hoffman
David Dziurzynski
Jakob Silfverberg
Jakub Culek

Peter Regin
Zack Smith
Jesse Winchester
Stephane Da Costa
Jim O'Brien
Derek Grant
Wacey Hamilton
Louie Caporusso

Chris Neil
Bobby Butler

Kaspars Daugavins
Andre Petersson
Mark Stone
Marcus Sorensen
Players with futures on the team. One or two of the others might surprise.

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04-05-2011, 12:18 PM
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SenzZen
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Trade Foligno and Regin if you can.

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04-05-2011, 12:21 PM
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trentmccleary
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Originally Posted by SenzZen View Post
Trade Foligno and Regin if you can.
Because none of our other prospects/young players have proven as much as they have and we don't really have the depth to trade away any young players with experience?

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04-05-2011, 12:26 PM
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SenzZen
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Because none of our other prospects/young players have proven as much as they have and we don't really have the depth to trade away any young players with experience?
Because their development has stagnated and their skill-sets are totally replaceable.

Unless you can figure out a way to morph the 2...

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04-05-2011, 12:33 PM
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Karlstrobe
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Originally Posted by SenzZen View Post
Because their development has stagnated and their skill-sets are totally replaceable.

Unless you can figure out a way to morph the 2...
Foligno is a guy I would like to keep on our 3rd line for the future, he isn't done developing yet and is still young. Regin on the other hand seems stagnated but he too has hope. The next 2 years will determine if they are in the long term plan.

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04-05-2011, 12:34 PM
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Karl Cowensson
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Originally Posted by SenzZen View Post
Because their development has stagnated and their skill-sets are totally replaceable.

Unless you can figure out a way to morph the 2...
Their young and inconsistent, nothing abnormal about that. None of our forward prospects will be any different next year. At least with a few years of experience, Foligno or Regin may break out with an expanded role on the team. Outside of top 3 picks, very few players make an immediate impact, most players hit their prime at 27ish.

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04-05-2011, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Karl Cowensson View Post
Their young and inconsistent, nothing abnormal about that. None of our forward prospects will be any different next year. At least with a few years of experience, Foligno or Regin may break out with an expanded role on the team. Outside of top 3 picks, very few players make an immediate impact, most players hit their prime at 27ish.
All very good points, that I hope other teams consider when we offer these guys in order to move up in the draft.

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04-05-2011, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenzZen View Post
Because their development has stagnated and their skill-sets are totally replaceable.

Unless you can figure out a way to morph the 2...
Do you think Buffalo should trade Myers because he doesn´t produce as many points as he did in his rookie season. Foligno and Regin are still young and can improve. And Foligno numbers aren´t that bad. We have no pressure of making the playoffs next season so Murray should give guys like Foligno, Regin, Wick, Da Costa etc. a chance to prove that they belong to our rebuilding programm.

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04-05-2011, 12:50 PM
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I love Greening on Spezza's line. Great complimentary player - good in the corners, VERY responsible in defensive zone (key), can finish when given opportunities and has a great size/speed thing working for him.

Add another top player to that line on the RW and look out!

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04-05-2011, 12:53 PM
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Karl Cowensson
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I love Greening on Spezza's line. Great complimentary player - good in the corners, VERY responsible in defensive zone (key), can finish when given opportunities and has a great size/speed thing working for him.

Add another top player to that line on the RW and look out!
Greening-Spezza-Michalek

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04-05-2011, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenzZen View Post
Because their development has stagnated and their skill-sets are totally replaceable.

Unless you can figure out a way to morph the 2...
How has their development stagnated? They didn't score more or as much as expected? ... Nobody except Karlsson did this season because the system collapsed and our offense collapsed with it for no tangible reason, despite the team being much healthier this year than last.

Also, this coaching staff immediately took in Michalek, Kovalev and Gonchar and starting coaching them towards career lows. Are you sure you don't want to see what everybody looks like under new coaching? It doesn't cost us anything.

- We need entire 2nd and 3rd lines. That's 45-50 point, 2-way players for the 2nd line and gritty 25-30 point, 2-way players for the 3rd line.

- What's the shallowest position in the NHL and most difficult to find decent players at? ... LW is a blackhole of talent in the NHL. LW's will typically produce 5-10 less points per season than their C's or RW's in the best of circumstances. We've only had MacEachern and Heatley (pretending to play LW while he more of a 2nd RW) in our teams history. In most cases, we played 40 point LW's on scoring lines.

Regin right now is our best 2-way centre by far competing for the 2nd line centre job. He has excellent offensive sense and very good tools. That he wasn't able to score this season was shocking, until you factor in that nobody else could either and he (& Foligno) were the only offensive players banished to the 4th line for not scoring in a bad system. Is he a permanent solution at 2nd line C? ... Maybe, maybe not. But he could be a permanent solution at offensive LW/back-up offensive C.

Nick Foligno
How many players on this team have ever even cracked 30 points? ... 5 -> the primary scorers, Foligno twice (on pace last year too) and Chris Neil once (which will never happen again). He already produces like a 3rd liner at a scarce position. If he becomes a slightly better scorer, he might become a 2nd liner. If he becomes a better defender and/or forechecker, he becomes an extremely valuable 3rd liner. At 23, we're writing the potential of either of those two things happening?

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04-05-2011, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Cowensson View Post
Greening-Spezza-Michalek
That is one fast line, with Greening able to win battles in the corners and Spezza as the set up man Michalek could use his speed on the RW to drive the net. Pretty decent line. I'm just worried that taking Butler away from Spezza will effect his goal scoring, while Michalek can tough it out on the 2nd line. Either way its worth a shot.

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04-05-2011, 01:20 PM
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Ideally, I'd like us to trade either of them to move up in the draft in order to take an actual 2C and I'm hoping we can get Upshall in FA.

Greening is already superior to Foligno- it's not even close (I know that Greening is older). Foligno spends so much time facing the boards it's ridiculous.

If you are content to have Foligno as a 3rd liner, then I don't know what to tell you- except that we don't need any more 3rd liners. Both Regin and Foligno were looked to for scoring help this year, and both **** the bed. Blame Clouston for that as much as you like.

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04-05-2011, 01:38 PM
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Ideally, I'd like us to trade either of them to move up in the draft in order to take an actual 2C and I'm hoping we can get Upshall in FA.

Greening is already superior to Foligno- it's not even close (I know that Greening is older). Foligno spends so much time facing the boards it's ridiculous.

If you are content to have Foligno as a 3rd liner, then I don't know what to tell you- except that we don't need any more 3rd liners. Both Regin and Foligno were looked to for scoring help this year, and both **** the bed. Blame Clouston for that as much as you like.
Oh god, let's not draft another Mike Fisher. If you mean draft a Ryan Kesler (aka guy who's not good enough for the 1st line but puts up more points than a 2nd line C), then sure, I guess.

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04-05-2011, 01:41 PM
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I'd keep Foligno, Greening, Silfverberg, Da Costa, Butler, Dziurzynski and Stone. Petersson and Sorensen depending on both Petersson's back and Sorensen's development.

On defence, Wiercioch, Gryba and Sdao.

Not all will be with the team, but could be regular call-ups.

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04-05-2011, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SenzZen View Post
Ideally, I'd like us to trade either of them to move up in the draft in order to take an actual 2C and I'm hoping we can get Upshall in FA.
Move up in the draft to take whom exactly? ... Raffi Torres? Kyle Turris? Alex Svitov? Matt Zultek?

We have 4 picks between 31-65 to move up with and those picks are much less likely to ever become as good as Foligno or Regin.

This team needs to stay away from expensive depth UFA's like Upshall until it knows how and if it can fill out a 1st line. Priorities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SenzZen View Post
Greening is already superior to Foligno- it's not even close (I know that Greening is older). Foligno spends so much time facing the boards it's ridiculous.
Greening's played 22 games with Jason Spezza, sprinting to the end of the season to earn an NHL job. Watch how he plays staring down a 90 game marathon pre-season & regular season with job security and lesser linemates on a healthier team before you start guaranteeing how good he'll be next season.

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Originally Posted by SenzZen View Post
If you are content to have Foligno as a 3rd liner, then I don't know what to tell you- except that we don't need any more 3rd liners. Both Regin and Foligno were looked to for scoring help this year, and both **** the bed. Blame Clouston for that as much as you like.
Michalek - Spezza - Alfie
Regin - Fisher - Kovalev
Ruutu - Kelly - Neil
Foligno - Winch - Shannon

Winchester's a UFA next year, Neil and Alfie 2 years later.

We sure as hell do need more 3rd liners... 3rd liners, 4th liners, 2nd liners. We need almost everything.

Can I blame Clouston for having having Alfie and Spezza on 50 point paces in the first half? Kovalev, Fisher and Michalek on 30 point paces in the first half? Can I blame him for losing control of the team and allowing the system to collapse? Can I blame him for coaching the first Sens team to be out-shot in 15 years? Can I blame him for missing the playoffs with the exact same team that was 5th last season despite catastrophic injuries and not even one career year?

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04-05-2011, 02:02 PM
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Interesting to note that Foligno actually has his career high in points this year

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04-05-2011, 02:13 PM
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trentmccleary
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Interesting to note that Foligno actually has his career high in points this year
His PPG high was last year.
He's gone from 0.20 to 0.40 to 0.43* to 0.42... and the 0.43 was injury shortened just as he was heating up down the stretch. Could have been at 0.50 (41 points) this year, which is probably close to his top end.

Oh, the coaching staff regained control of the system and the team has played quite a bit better in the 2nd half. But a lot of players were horribly affected in the first half.

Foligno first 28 games = 6 points.
Last 51 games = 27 points.

We had 2 awful losing stretches in the first 28 games (6 & 10 games) when almost nobody produced offense.
Then the big 15 games Spezza-less stretch in that 51 game period.

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04-05-2011, 02:15 PM
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Cowen
Rundbland
Z. Smith
J O'B
Butler (is he still a prospect?)
Greening
Condra
Stone
Da Costa (see what he can doooo)

With Condra/Greening and especially Jim O'Brien (as well as others, such as Silfverberg) I honestly think Foligno is expendable, and I'd rather trade him than Regin. With Runbland, Cowen, and Lee coming into his own, I wouldn't mind seeing what we could get shopping Wiercioch around..

I would shop around Foligno + Wiercioch and see if we can land a young top 6 forward. I do not ever really see Foligno being a reliable threat on the top 6 and we have MORE than enough guys who can play a bottum 6 role, and out of all of em he is probably the most valuable right now as he is already in the NHL..

Deals I would look into on the offseason

Foligno + Wiercioch for a young top 6 forward
Nashville's 1st Round pick for a Rundbland type trade for a young top 6 forward...

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04-05-2011, 02:20 PM
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SenzZen
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Interesting to note that Foligno actually has his career high in points this year
Yep. 1 more than 2 years ago. The sky's the limit!

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04-05-2011, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by OgieO View Post
I love Greening on Spezza's line. Great complimentary player - good in the corners, VERY responsible in defensive zone (key), can finish when given opportunities and has a great size/speed thing working for him.

Add another top player to that line on the RW and look out!
I really like the potential of Greening as well. He has size, speed and a good shot, but I think the thing I like the most is his willingness/ability to go to the dirty zones in front of the net. This is something that the team really needs so I thing Greening will be a good fit next year. I noticed in the Toronto game that our smaller forwards were getting manhandled pretty good by the big Toronto defencemen.

Condra has the potential to be another Chris Kelly type player, with maybe a little more offensive upside. Another useful player.

Butler COULD be a good goal scorer, but it is still too early to be sure.

I am not sure about Foligno or Regin. Regin had such a horrible year, that I think we have to just do a complete reset for next year and hope that his development gets back on track. If not, he could just fizzle out and get moved out.

Foligno is still young, but man, he seems to be just flailing around all over the ice, with little positive results. I think if he concentrates on finishing checks he could be a solid 3rd line player. Probably not much more.

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04-05-2011, 02:35 PM
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Who are all of these bottom-6 forwards and all of these LW's and all of these prospects for sure making the lineup next season?

Removing Michalek - Spezza - Alfie - Top-5 pick for a moment.

2011-12
Greening - Regin - Butler
Foligno - Z.Smith - C.Neil
????? - Winchester - Condra

Wick - O'Brien - Hoffman
Daugavins - Da Costa - Petersson
Dzuirzynski - Hamilton - Caporusso

That NHL depth chart is likely to go through the blender fairly often and would end up with wildly different lineups that we could ever conceive.

The AHL'ers there haven't earned anything but call-up duty yet and some of the newer NHL'ers may find themselves back in Bingo before October is over.

Who are all of these prospects pressing for immediate NHL jobs?

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