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Trevor Timmins appreciation thread

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Old
03-22-2011, 03:58 AM
  #26
Shawn Wilken
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When it comes to saying; "We picked him, when we miss out on him, that guy over the other guy"...


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03-22-2011, 04:08 AM
  #27
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I was a Trevor Timmins cynic at first, but now I'm a fan.

He's arguably one of the best in the business.

Don't be surprised if Alex Avtsin and Danny Kristo become strong NHL players as well.

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Old
04-06-2011, 09:29 PM
  #28
RE-HABS
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Reasons to give Timmins his due - 2007 Draft

So many posters here are always moaning about the drafting in the first round by Timmins and how he has missed the "star" (the same one the others missed ahead of him) and how our 1st rounders are all grunts or non-impact players.

I think one really has to look at the 2007 draft and give the guy praise and respect what he did in picks 12, 22 and 43.

Ryan McDonagh, Max Pacioretty and PK Subban are those players. We unfortunatly no longer have McDonagh because of the Gomez trade, but one has to recognize that all three of these guys are going to be top 6 in forwards and top 4 in Dmen.

That to me is very good scouting, and a well deserved pat on the back to Timmins and his department.

Not to mention we also managed to get Eller who was drafted 13th overall in that draft. Timmins and his scouting staff probably played a significant role in the trade, relying on their reports before and after the draft.

Yannick Weber at 73.

Conboy looks to be a potential future 4th liner in a tough guy role too, at 142.

Some others are ini the AHL, they may not be NHLers, but they are playing a role in the system and are getting a chance to develop. Being only 4 years ago it is a very successful draft, especially considering 3 of the 4 are Dmen and NHL ready at 21-22.

Here's to hoping the drafts afterwards are as rewarding.

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Old
04-06-2011, 09:52 PM
  #29
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But their ceiling isn't as high as someone picked in the top 5...

Just taking some stupid comments from someone in the Subban to the AVS for 2nd overall.


I think Timmins has done really well. We still don't have a high impact foward, maybe that can be Max, who knows.

You can't forget that the ratio of players in the NHL picked after the 3rd round is pretty high coming out of Montreal. So Timmins does a good job no matter what people want to think.

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Old
04-06-2011, 09:56 PM
  #30
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Never.Forget.2003

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Old
04-06-2011, 10:06 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated R Superstar View Post
Never.Forget.2003
whatever, AK has as much talent as everyone else in that group. As if you know how a teenager is going to progress. Personally I'm just fine with the pick. Andrei isn't a dud, has had very good goal totals since he's been with us, he just hasn't been an all-star and AFAIK he's still playing so let's count the vote at the end of the day. This was a very good season for him including his overall development in every zone.

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Old
04-06-2011, 10:14 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Carolina is one of the bottom teams in terms of players drafted by them and in the NHL.

It changes every year, but Montréal is top 3 in players drafted who play in the NHL.
Are you judging by quality, or quantity? Staal, Skinner and Ward don't are all obviously franchise players, plus I think Sutter is a keeper. Comparing quality, I don't see much to frown upon in Carolina by their scouting staff.

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Old
04-07-2011, 01:17 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Rated R Superstar View Post
Never.Forget.2003
Halak in the 9th!

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Old
04-07-2011, 02:15 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
So many posters here are always moaning about the drafting in the first round by Timmins and how he has missed the "star" (the same one the others missed ahead of him) and how our 1st rounders are all grunts or non-impact players.

I think one really has to look at the 2007 draft and give the guy praise and respect what he did in picks 12, 22 and 43.

Ryan McDonagh, Max Pacioretty and PK Subban are those players. We unfortunatly no longer have McDonagh because of the Gomez trade, but one has to recognize that all three of these guys are going to be top 6 in forwards and top 4 in Dmen.

That to me is very good scouting, and a well deserved pat on the back to Timmins and his department.

Not to mention we also managed to get Eller who was drafted 13th overall in that draft. Timmins and his scouting staff probably played a significant role in the trade, relying on their reports before and after the draft.

Yannick Weber at 73.

Conboy looks to be a potential future 4th liner in a tough guy role too, at 142.

Some others are ini the AHL, they may not be NHLers, but they are playing a role in the system and are getting a chance to develop. Being only 4 years ago it is a very successful draft, especially considering 3 of the 4 are Dmen and NHL ready at 21-22.

Here's to hoping the drafts afterwards are as rewarding.
I like how Timmins draft in later rounds, somebody like Grabovski in 5th round -30 goal guy. Maybe we should trade our first round pick for plethora of mid-rounds picks? Halak a 7th round pick, Streit a 6th round pick....maybe we are doing it wrong

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Old
04-07-2011, 06:28 AM
  #35
Habs Icing
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Are you judging by quality, or quantity? Staal, Skinner and Ward don't are all obviously franchise players, plus I think Sutter is a keeper. Comparing quality, I don't see much to frown upon in Carolina by their scouting staff.
Staal - 2nd overall
Skinner - 7th
Ward - 25th

You're comparing apple & oranges. Two of those picks are quality picks. Timmins had a 5th overall and did not bad.

Are those picks better than:

Price - 5th
Subban - 43rd
Paccioretty - 22st
Macdonagh - 12th

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Old
04-07-2011, 06:36 AM
  #36
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Was Gauthier And Timmins And Jacques Martin in Senators administration by the past ? then you have to add Zdeno Chara then :p ... lol but not sure of who pick up between Gauthier or Timmins Or another scout of that time ...
I think Chara (+ Spezza) was involved in the Yashin to Islanders trade.

Milbury

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Old
04-07-2011, 09:32 AM
  #37
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Timmins was never the problem, it was more Bob vision of a hockey team, if you take a look at the crop, the team could look a lot better with some minor deals never done, mainly Ribs (Or Grabo, just because they'd be playing instead of Gomez) and Lats. That is total indsight, years later i know. Even though i was all for Lats trade at the time, he couldn't look wrost than Pouliot right now.

Bob teamed with first round made Timmins look bad.

Timmins is in the top 15 of the league.

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Old
04-07-2011, 10:17 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
Staal - 2nd overall
Skinner - 7th
Ward - 25th

You're comparing apple & oranges. Two of those picks are quality picks. Timmins had a 5th overall and did not bad.

Are those picks better than:

Price - 5th
Subban - 43rd
Paccioretty - 22st
Macdonagh - 12th
No, I'm saying Carolina has done fine drafting, I'm not sure what the complaint was.

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Old
04-07-2011, 10:54 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
Timmins is in the top 15 of the league.
Drop the 1.

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Old
04-07-2011, 10:54 AM
  #40
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I am still waiting for that impact top 6 or top 2 D, which are usually drafted first round. PK is definately there, but overall his drafting is better in later rounds than in the first. Excluding Price, really how great are they? Patches is looking to be his best forward pickup in the first round. While I am not saying Timmins is terrible, I am saying that compared to the rest of the league, his success is really average. I am not a big fan of being happy to be average. I would rather look at the better drafting teams & see what criteria they are using to evaluate players is different from ours. Fischer at the draft had a bad rep in interviews I remember reading. Scrawny, weak, no shot, high school kid-was Timmins hoping that 4 years of college would produce an effective NHL d-man? Really?
Mcdonough didn't really develop as a point producing two way guy, but seems to be a reasonable top4 in the making. PK's personality was able to take control of his skills, and looks great now, but was kind of a question mark at the draft because of his defensive play. So is Timmins criteria for evaluating a player different in later rounds than it is in the first? Why? Was Tinordi really the BPA? I don't think so, in fact I think we probably could have traded a third liner player of AHL'er to get him in a couple of years. Will we ever have a player up front that will regulary produce 80-90 points in a season any more? Why was Timmins staff trimmed before the last draft if he is doing such a good job?

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Old
04-07-2011, 11:44 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #57 View Post
2003
Kostitsyn
Lapierre
O'Byrne
Halak

2004
Chipchura
Grabovski
Streit

2005
Price
Latendresse
D'Agostini
Kostitsyn

2006
Maxwell
Carle
White
Valentenko

2007
McDonagh
Pacioretty
Subban
Weber

2008
Kristo
Quailer

2009
Leblanc
Nattinen
Bennett
Avtsin
Dumont

2010
Tinordi

Pretty good I'd say.
Timmins has indeed done a very good job. While I've already stated what I didn't like as much as far as strategy and some picks, he's clearly amongst the best.

But you can't go with that list to explain how good he was....Way too soon to even talk about 2008 and up....I mean as far as we know, they could all underachieve. As of now, we're solely going with names and we can go back on those 2008, 2009, 2010 drafts, and I can give you "names" that could have looked just as good if not better. So too soon to call, it might look good, but it could have looked better "on paper". Greatly enough, this is not how a game is played.

While he was the one or not who discovered those players, he's the one who decided to call the guy's name at the table, he's the one who's responsible for giving the confidence to the guys in place etc...So everything from Grabovski, Streit, Price, Lats, SKost, D'Ago, Halak, Pacio, McDo, that' all Timmins. Now I understand that the list you provided are the guys who ended up playing in the league, and that's impressive. But the guys I've named are what separates a great head scout from an average one. Quality over quantity. My biggest beef against him was always to say that Timmins was able to recognize who could play in this league more than who could succeed in it. Something is strange though....I start to believe that the same ones who were defending the org. for letting most of those guys go, saying how they were just a flash in the pan and all are now saying how great Timmins go....Well I guess that with the "haters" having to reconsider their opinion on Timmins, the "haters" of those players we let go have to reconsider as well.....unless they're stuck with the "He wouldn't have done it here" syndrom.....

Now, what's left as criticisms for me as far as Timmins is concerned is this:

1- Having the ability to find power forwards that could score goals and play in the top 6. Only MaxPac respond to the bill since he took over.
2- If you really put the emphasis on the US, just be sure you get the best out of that league whether it's from the draft or the UFA Trotter type of players who he surely have a say in this. I don't believe he was as succesful in that area and that his ratio success vs picks isn't that great. Surely what McDo and MaxPac has done have upgraded this ratio but not to where I'd hope it would be.
3- First rounders are still a concern: AKost, Chip, Price, Fischer, McDo, MaxPac, Leblanc and Tinordi. Usually this is where you get your players of exception. Yes, Subban was a 2nd rounder and all....but 1st round is where it happens. But if you can't have the quantity, be sure you have the quality. Like Anaheim for example...Getzlaf, Perry, Smyd, Ryan, Mitera, MacMillan, Gardiner, Holland, Fowler, Etem. Quantity wise, that's not THAT impressive, bunch of underachievers à la Mitera and MacMillan, Gardiner was traded (history will say if he'll McDonagh's his way in Toronto...), Smyd (pretty ordinairy), don't have too much faith in Holland but too soon to say....BUT when you are able to build a core with guys like Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan and Fowler....you know that your drafts have the quality. They already knew it for quite some time now.....we wondered just last year if Price or Halak would have been traded.....we didn't know at THIS start of the season if MaxPac would be back this year.....we didn't know the impact of McDo this year....So not only Anaheim was able to get some quality....but also some quality that ended up playing soon for them and be able to get the quality/salary ratio for them going.

And yes, this is just one team. Like I said before, this is NOT a proof that Timmins sucks. He doesn't. But there is some improvement to do. And we cannot BUY our core every year....we need youngsters to be able to do it for us based on that salary cap. Somehow, the Gomez-Gionta-Cammy acquisitions are a proof that there's some improvement to make if we want to move in the rankings. 2003 will remain for me as one of his biggest miss, a year we couldn't have the luxury of missing....

But CLEARLY, the main problem is not Timmins. It's the development of our guys, I firmly believed that SKost was a legitimate top 6 player. Same for Lats, top 4 in McDo etc....The identity, the development and the rest that came to the departure of some of OUR players that end up doing what they do best elsewhere, is the real problem. And that's mainly outside of the 1st round...and THAT Timmins doesn't seem to have anything to do with that based on what we heard with Grabs and McDo.....


Last edited by Whitesnake: 04-07-2011 at 11:49 AM.
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Old
02-12-2012, 05:37 PM
  #42
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Just wanted to bump this thread because next season we have a massive influx of legitimate NHL talent. He has done a great job and so has staff over the past 7 seasons. The Canadiens are one of the premier sources of NHL players.

I've heard talk on the TSN 990 about how weak our top level talent is within the organization. They pointed to Hamilton this season. What they did not mention was how many good young players are soon to make the jump to pro hockey.

Im excited for this years draft because I believe the Habs have a great opportunity to add an elite talent to their now very deep group of prospects.

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02-12-2012, 05:43 PM
  #43
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I've heard talk on the TSN 990 about how weak our top level talent is within the organization. They pointed to Hamilton this season. What they did not mention was how many good young players are soon to make the jump to pro hockey.
Absolutely, totally agree! We have some very promising junior players.

Not sure if you're referring to a Pierre McGuire segment, but I've heard him say this kind of stuff on TSN 990. He's always a bit behind when it comes to prospects. Last year he was saying the Bruins have a great prospect crop, and gave Zach Hamill as one of his top examples!

Recently I heard him say Tinordi's WJC was disappointing. I haven't been a fan of drafting Tinordi, but it's been pretty unanimous, even among non-Habs fans, that Tinordi was one of Team USA's best 2 dmen.

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Old
02-12-2012, 05:51 PM
  #44
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I will admit he did a good job. But i am still very pissed he chose Fischer over Giroux... And AK over Carter, Getzlaf etc

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Old
02-12-2012, 05:53 PM
  #45
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Quote:
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I will admit he did a good job. But i am still very pissed he chose Fischer over Giroux... And AK over Carter, Getzlaf etc
Giroux pisses me off too, especially since we are in Quebec. However, most NHL teams also passed over him. He seems to have learned from his mistakes.

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02-12-2012, 05:55 PM
  #46
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His record is hard to attack.

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Old
02-12-2012, 07:15 PM
  #47
Habs Icing
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you could run through most teams and find a large % of players there are from the head scout. However, Timmins still has a very poor first round success rate.

Hard to findy anyone better than the boys in Carolina, Detroit and San Jose.
From 03 to 07 Timmins top 7 picks:

Price
Halak
Subban
McDonagh
Pacioretty
Andrei Kositysyn
Grabovski

Show me those teams top 7 picks. Bet you, you don't know what you're talking about.

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02-12-2012, 07:44 PM
  #48
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Price
McDonaugh
MaxPac
AK (not the best but he's a consistent 20 goal scorer and the talent is there)

I wouldn't say he's terrible in the 1st round.

And the fischer pick. It was a 20th pick...which is really a crap shoot.

The guy consistently picks in the mid to late 1st round and people are crapping on him for not hitting homeruns on every 1st round pick?

Price and Max are cornerstones of the team. McDonaugh would have been as well if he was not traded.

Timmins has done a great job.

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Old
02-12-2012, 07:54 PM
  #49
Em Ancien
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With McD, Subban, Tinordi, Beaulieu and Emelin, along with Price, we could've been one of the toughest teams to score against in the league, for years and years.

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Old
02-12-2012, 07:56 PM
  #50
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Timmins is boss

/thread

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