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If you could ask Holmgren 1 question and 1 question only...

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Old
04-07-2011, 11:39 AM
  #51
CharlieGirl
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
There are two kinds of thoughts on Homer:
1. Those who see his mistakes and feel he is an idiot. They also see he has a good eye for talent, but they are not big fans of him as a GM. IMO, most dislike him because they feel he is not as intelligent as they are.

2. Those who see the success of the team and the job he did turning it around and overlook his errors. The team is considered a cup contender each year on paper - that is the GM's job. As long as he keeps building winners and re-signing our favorite players, we can overlook the Randy Jones moments.
Or there are those of us in the middle. His teams have had success, and he's part of that. He's not afraid to go out and make the big deal to improve the team. He has a good eye for talent, particularly free agents just coming out of college or the CHL.

However... the man has no patience when it comes to dealing with player contracts, frequently overpays on trades and contracts, and has pretty much cleaned the cupboard out of picks going forward, which will have a big impact on the salary cap room in the next couple of years.

And he's the one person in the organization who should have a firm handle on the salary cap and how it works, yet has no concept of either. I didn't like the Jones debacle, but had hoped he'd learn from that. The most recent incident with Leighton proves that he hasn't learned a damn thing and will likely continue to pull stupid, stupid moves going forward.

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Old
04-07-2011, 11:42 AM
  #52
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Charlie summed it up for me. A good GM with a penchant for occasionally doing very stupid things, and apparently not learning from them.

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Old
04-07-2011, 11:44 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Charlie summed it up for me. A good GM with a penchant for occasionally doing very stupid things, and apparently not learning from them.
Next time it's your turn to do all the typing, and mine to just say ^^ what he said!

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Old
04-07-2011, 11:54 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Or there are those of us in the middle. His teams have had success, and he's part of that. He's not afraid to go out and make the big deal to improve the team. He has a good eye for talent, particularly free agents just coming out of college or the CHL.

However... the man has no patience when it comes to dealing with player contracts, frequently overpays on trades and contracts, and has pretty much cleaned the cupboard out of picks going forward, which will have a big impact on the salary cap room in the next couple of years.

And he's the one person in the organization who should have a firm handle on the salary cap and how it works, yet has no concept of either. I didn't like the Jones debacle, but had hoped he'd learn from that. The most recent incident with Leighton proves that he hasn't learned a damn thing and will likely continue to pull stupid, stupid moves going forward.
Based on what I have read on this board, there is not much of a "middle" when it comes to Homer. I think I am in the middle based on what you just said, but those who think he is an idiot tend to have me completely defending. I have said many times I thought JOnes was stupid, Eminger was bad, Shelley was too much, Leighton was early, etc. I just LOVE the Pronger trade, the Briere signing, the Meszaros trade, the Coburn trade, the Timonen/Hartnell trade/sign, the Lavy hiring, etc.

Imagine, me saying I am in the middle on Homer. That might be a bit of a stretch

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Old
04-07-2011, 11:55 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Charlie summed it up for me. A good GM with a penchant for occasionally doing very stupid things, and apparently not learning from them.
I agree with this. He got away with Leighton, but hugely stupid move that almost put is up bad shape next year. I really didn't think he would make that mistake again. They don't call him Shooter for nuthin.

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04-07-2011, 12:02 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Mr Holmgren, what do you have to do to get any respect from HF boards?
That's a trick question. He'll never get anyone's respect on here. Even if the Flyers win 5 straight championships, people will still ***** that he overpaid Briere.

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04-07-2011, 12:06 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Next time it's your turn to do all the typing, and mine to just say ^^ what he said!
I did my time in the Leighton thread yesterday, haha. Today is my day off from thinking.

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04-07-2011, 12:09 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Or there are those of us in the middle. His teams have had success, and he's part of that. He's not afraid to go out and make the big deal to improve the team. He has a good eye for talent, particularly free agents just coming out of college or the CHL.

However... the man has no patience when it comes to dealing with player contracts, frequently overpays on trades and contracts, and has pretty much cleaned the cupboard out of picks going forward, which will have a big impact on the salary cap room in the next couple of years.

And he's the one person in the organization who should have a firm handle on the salary cap and how it works, yet has no concept of either. I didn't like the Jones debacle, but had hoped he'd learn from that. The most recent incident with Leighton proves that he hasn't learned a damn thing and will likely continue to pull stupid, stupid moves going forward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Based on what I have read on this board, there is not much of a "middle" when it comes to Homer. I think I am in the middle based on what you just said, but those who think he is an idiot tend to have me completely defending. I have said many times I thought JOnes was stupid, Eminger was bad, Shelley was too much, Leighton was early, etc. I just LOVE the Pronger trade, the Briere signing, the Meszaros trade, the Coburn trade, the Timonen/Hartnell trade/sign, the Lavy hiring, etc.

Imagine, me saying I am in the middle on Homer. That might be a bit of a stretch
I actually think CG's take is more indicative of myself than your description. Mainly the lack of patience, and salary cap stuff. The lack of patience speaks on his method. Which is my overarching point. I'd be fine with a lot of what he did if he had just shown patience, did his due dilligence, and then arrived at the same exact conclusion. I would then be comfortable that he did everything he could do, and made the right decision.

And phillyfanatic, I know you get me, and don't think of me as a "hater".

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Old
04-07-2011, 12:12 PM
  #59
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Mr Holmgren, my question is two parts:

How did you get the job of an NHL GM and, wtf were they thinking?

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Old
04-07-2011, 12:13 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I actually think CG's take is more indicative of myself than your description. Mainly the lack of patience, and salary cap stuff. The lack of patience speaks on his method. Which is my overarching point. I'd be fine with a lot of what he did if he had just shown patience, did his due dilligence, and then arrived at the same exact conclusion. I would then be comfortable that he did everything he could do, and made the right decision.

And phillyfanatic, I know you get me, and don't think of me as a "hater".
My wish? The haters takes were like the above. Then maybe I wouldn't be so damn positive.

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Old
04-07-2011, 12:14 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I did my time in the Leighton thread yesterday, haha. Today is my day off from thinking.
I'm in this thread too, thinking caps back off

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Old
04-07-2011, 12:15 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
There are two kinds of thoughts on Homer:
1. Those who see his mistakes and feel he is an idiot. They also see he has a good eye for talent, but they are not big fans of him as a GM. IMO, most dislike him because they feel he is not as intelligent as they are.

2. Those who see the success of the team and the job he did turning it around and overlook his errors. The team is considered a cup contender each year on paper - that is the GM's job. As long as he keeps building winners and re-signing our favorite players, we can overlook the Randy Jones moments.
if he handled the Salary Cap better and didnt throw away draft picks like candy I could live with some of his mistakes. Its not just the Randy Jones fiasco.
He does have a good eye for talent, but I think he has made mistakes along the way and has at times made some panic moves.

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Old
04-07-2011, 12:24 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
if he handled the Salary Cap better and didnt throw away draft picks like candy I could live with some of his mistakes. Its not just the Randy Jones fiasco.
He does have a good eye for talent, but I think he has made mistakes along the way and has at times made some panic moves.
Can't disagree with any of this. Is it sad that I want too anyway?

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Old
04-07-2011, 12:39 PM
  #64
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Don't you get it, phillyfanatic?

There are no real "haters." The problem with discussion on the subject is that people resort to uninformed blanket classifications and misconstructions of opposing arguments because they can't cope with the specifics of critique.

Any time anyone questions Holmgren, they're immediately met with the "you're a hater" rhetoric, and met with absolute support of everything Holmgren does.

It's creating the sort of hyperpartisan and polarized 'affiliation,' which is totally fictional, that makes any sort of reasoned debate impossible.


I don't hate Holmgren. He is a good GM who does incredibly stupid things, which prohibit him from being a truly great GM and hamstring our team. In short, he's nowhere near as bad as some make him out to be...but nowhere near as great as others want to portray him as. Not everyone under the Flyers banner should automatically be made an unquestioned hero. A middle ground exists, as well as a million shades of gray.

Around here it's like right wing vs. left wing American politics, but more retarded.

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Old
04-07-2011, 05:10 PM
  #65
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How would you rate your own performance as General Manager of the Philadelphia Flyers?

Sounds lame... I really would like to hear it right from the horse's mouth though.

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Old
04-07-2011, 06:35 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by ChumpyG View Post
And there's your answer. GMs don't get fired just because people on the internet think they could do a better job building a professional hockey team.

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