26 minutes isn't that hard for a defenseman, especially one who is an effortless skater.
Hod Stuart shouldn't play 26 minutes a game here. Those minutes after the 20th-22nd are going to be very labored and ineffective compared to giving some lower guys more minutes. Not to mention there are only 2 players in the entire league who even have over 26 minutes per game (this year).
Steve Shutt-Howie Morenz-Daniel Briere
John Leclair-Eric Lindros-Kenny Wharram
John Tonelli-Walt Tkazkuc-Bobby Schmautz
Tomas Holmstrom-Kris Draper-Adam Deadmarsh
Flash Hollett-Tim Horton
Ebbie Goodfellow-Keith Magnusson
Roman Hamrlik-Robert Svehla
You're the first team I see without a review (aside from mine). Probably won't be as detailed as some we've seen, but just a few impressions.
- Shutt and Morenz are a great combo on the 1st line, and I can see them being very effective. I drafted Shutt in the past and I remember reading that the man could backcheck, and I think Morenz did too, so a solid pair all-around. Obviously, Briere is way out of place here, but I don't see anyone else who can really fill his shoes
- Same deal on line #2. Leclair and Lindros are deadly together, and have proven chemistry, which is always a plus. A physically imposing duo who will score on any team's goaltender at least a few times. Again, Wharram probably drags them down a bit, but not too bad IMO.
- Tonelli and Tkaczuk are two favourites of mine. Never had the chance to draft Tonelli, but Walt was my $4 center in my first ever ATD, and I learned a lot about him. He's a great 3rd line center in a 40 team ATD. I honestly don't know very much about Schmautz though
- Holmstrom is solid, but why isn't he on the PP? Just because of his...err...talent, I'd put him there over Wharram. He's one of the best at what he does. Draper is probably for the PK, I assume? I'm a big Deadmarsh fan aswell
- I like how you split Horton and Goodfellow. Both can probably be #1 defensemen in a 40 team draft...or close to it.
- Chabot is a solid, mid-tier starter. He certainly won't cost you any games, but I doubt he'll win you any.
- Deadly 1st PP, but I still think Holmstrom should be somewhere in one of those PP units, unless there's something I don't know about Kenny Wharram. Maybe I'm overrating Holmstrom, but I honestly don't know much about how he plays when he's not standing in front of the net. That's his bread and butter.
Coach: Viktor Tikhonov
Assistant Coach: Father David Bauer (bio coming)
Captain: Jean Beliveau
Assistant Captain: Rod Langway
Assistant Captain: Brian Sutter
Some positional notes, Prodgers can play all 3 forward positions, and Thoms can play center and LW.
I'll do the Firebirds seeing as they are my divisional rival and I have followed them closely somewhat since the beginning of the draft.
OFFENSE
First Line: One of the better first lines of the draft, the only thing keeping them out of "elite" company is the weakness of Dick Duff. Good glue guy to have on the line with two perennial superstars in Beliveau and Kurri, but definitely a glaring weakness on the line. You should be safe because you do have the aforementioned duo on the line, that should've have much trouble scoring.
Second Line: I like the composure of this line, good, hard-working second line that contributes a good amount of offense and grit. Frank McGee is a solid offensive threat, who fits well with Hodge and Harris. Two puck-winners. Like my first line, you might have similar trouble in generating offense more often than not. But in the same situation I'm in, with the talent on the line, it shouldn't be difficult to get those chances.
Third Line: Decent, typical third line. I can't see a whole lot of offense coming out of the line, I don't know of any playmaking skills between the three. I just know Lepine was known for his defensive ability. Who gets the puck to Sutter or Peirson when trying for offensive chances? Good defensive line, not really sure how much offense it will contribute.
Fourth Line: This line, kind of like your third line, except I see this as a good offensive energy line. Bill Thoms can set up plays and score goals, and Prodgers and Maloney are somewhat suitable wingers. They'll be able to protect Thoms and they will receive good passes from him that could lead to scoring chances.
Spares: Like I said about Balfour in the Draft Thread, he isn't anything special and was well-known for his presence on the million-dollar line. Was heavily favored by past GM's, and was picked earlier because of it. Not a bad spare though, good fore-checker and could fill in on the PK possibly. Herb Jordan is a good offensive spare, one of the better in the draft in my perspective (up there with Maruk and Janney) and should be effective when relied upon.
DEFENSE
First Pairing: Not bad first pairing, Langway is a great piece to have, but a lower-tier #1 defenseman. Eduard Ivanov? He brings the pairing down a little bit, mostly because IMO he is not a top pairing defenseman in the ATD. He is adequate, and probably belongs on a second pairing as a below-average #3 or a good #4. Langway will provide a lot of defense, and will make it seemingly difficult for opposing forwards to get through. Ivanov is an alright two-way defenseman, who brings a nice mix of offense and defense. I don't think Ivanov was a very good skater, so if he ever gets caught pinching, it could be a task for even Langway to overcome.
Second Pairing: I like this pairing a little more, seeing as it is a good two-way blend. Howell is a fine defensive defenseman and a solid #2. Gonchar is a good offensive defenseman, and can be protected by Howell. Gonchar's defensive ability is almost non-existent, so Howell is a suitable partner for him.
Third Pairing: Pretty bruising third pairing, should do well against offensive lines. I don't see Owen as the most reliable puck-rushing defenseman, so offense may be hard to come by.
Spares: I never saw anything special about Jay Bouwmeester, average offensively, not bad defensively. Not a terrible spare I guess, but I can't see him as a very reliable one.
GOALTENDING
Upper-middle class goaltender in Jiri Holocek, he's a strong point in the middle of the ATD goaltending class. He should be an integral part to the core and a legitimate starting goaltender. Charlie Hodge is a good back-up, stood in the shadow of Jacques Plante and did pretty well in his years as a starter.
SPECIAL TEAMS
PP: Pretty good flow on both units, I don't see Harris as an overly productive forward. But keeping that line together could be a good idea on the PP.
PK: Beliveau wasn't the most defensive forward out there, more known to fight his own battles other than helping out others. But his big presence is most likely a plus, and having Duff there helps. Playing Howell on your second pairing eliminates him from over-working and playing too much, so that is good.
COACHING
Viktor Tikhonov is a middle-class coach, I think with the offense you possess throughout your forward core, his style will mesh well with the team. He knows a thing or two about winning. David Bauer is also a pretty good guy to have around.
OVERVIEW
Pretty good entry Bill, there is a lot of strong flow throughout the team. Your first line is without a doubt the best part of your team, that should be a struggle for many oppositions defense. Your defense has a few flaws, I think Langway will be doing a lot of work on that first pairing. But other than that I think you've built a pretty good team.
Coach: Don Cherry
Assistant Coach: Ted Nolan
Captain: Dit Clapper
Alternate Captain: Jarome Iginla
Alternate Captain: Red Horner
Bun Cook - Adam Oates - Jarome Iginla
Valery Kamensky - Bobby Smith - Danny Gare
Don Marshall - Don Luce - Mario Tremblay
Dennis Hextall - Mike Richards - Cliff Koroll
Bones Raleigh
Red Horner - Dit Clapper
Carol Vadnais - Jack Crawford
Behn Wilson - Joe Jerwa
Allan Shields
Glenn Hall
Bill Ranford
PP1: Bun Cook - Adam Oates - Jarome Iginla - Dit Clapper - Mike Richards
PP2: Valery Kamensky - Bobby Smith - Danny Gare - Carol Vadnais - Behn Wilson
PK1: Don Luce - Don Marshall - Red Horner - Jack Crawford
PK2: Mike Richards - Bun Cook - Dit Clapper - Joe Jerwa
You're the first team I see without a review (aside from mine). Probably won't be as detailed as some we've seen, but just a few impressions.
- Shutt and Morenz are a great combo on the 1st line, and I can see them being very effective. I drafted Shutt in the past and I remember reading that the man could backcheck, and I think Morenz did too, so a solid pair all-around. Obviously, Briere is way out of place here, but I don't see anyone else who can really fill his shoes
- Same deal on line #2. Leclair and Lindros are deadly together, and have proven chemistry, which is always a plus. A physically imposing duo who will score on any team's goaltender at least a few times. Again, Wharram probably drags them down a bit, but not too bad IMO.
- Tonelli and Tkaczuk are two favourites of mine. Never had the chance to draft Tonelli, but Walt was my $4 center in my first ever ATD, and I learned a lot about him. He's a great 3rd line center in a 40 team ATD. I honestly don't know very much about Schmautz though
- Holmstrom is solid, but why isn't he on the PP? Just because of his...err...talent, I'd put him there over Wharram. He's one of the best at what he does. Draper is probably for the PK, I assume? I'm a big Deadmarsh fan aswell
- I like how you split Horton and Goodfellow. Both can probably be #1 defensemen in a 40 team draft...or close to it.
- Chabot is a solid, mid-tier starter. He certainly won't cost you any games, but I doubt he'll win you any.
- Deadly 1st PP, but I still think Holmstrom should be somewhere in one of those PP units, unless there's something I don't know about Kenny Wharram. Maybe I'm overrating Holmstrom, but I honestly don't know much about how he plays when he's not standing in front of the net. That's his bread and butter.
- PK Units look fine to me also
- I still hate Yashin, but that's not your fault
For a guy with Holmstrom's reputation on the PP, you'd think he'd bring more to the table than a single 6th in PP goals.
Hod Stuart shouldn't play 26 minutes a game here. Those minutes after the 20th-22nd are going to be very labored and ineffective compared to giving some lower guys more minutes. Not to mention there are only 2 players in the entire league who even have over 26 minutes per game (this year).
In your opinion, certain minutes will be ineffective.
Let's assume you're right for a second... the coach on the bench will be making those evaluations anyway.
other F's who could get SHTOI: Muller, Stanley, Lemaire, Fairbairn
* takes faceoffs. Muller was a very good faceoff man, while Forsberg was not. i put Hull and Stasiuk in the middle on PP b/c they will be playing there: Stasiuk at the net, Hull in the slot.
- A wonderful top 6. You absolutely did the right thing by splitting up Bobby and Brett. Lemaire is still a perfectly solid partner for Hull, who just needs someone to get the puck over to him. He can do the rest.
- Forsberg is probably in my top 5 non-Habs players of all-time. Love the way he plays, and he falls into the Eric Lindros category of "how much better could he have been?". Kirk Muller is probably a poor 2nd liner here, but I understand why he's up there
- Decent 3rd line. Don't know very much about Ward, but Broten and Drury were both very adequate performers.
- Like the 4th line, if you're going for shutdown. Duchesne was a very strong PKer whom I forgot about when I was picking, and Jarvis is someone you certainly don't have to worry about getting injured, and he's also quite good.
- In my honest opinion, your defense, as a whole, is average at best. I've actually never seen anyone use Reg Noble as a defenseman, so I really find that to be intriguing. Hatcher is also a good shutdown guy.
- Rafalski and Ulf are good contrast, the typical offense/defense pairing.
- I honestly don't know much about Seiling, and Lumme stopped playing right around the time I got into hockey.
- The way you've listed your PP units somewhat confuses me. I understand Muller/Drury are the face-off men, but then what?
- No issues with the PK units
- Babcock is a solid coach who will likely continue to rise in the rankings. He may be top 15-20 material soon, if he isn't already
In your opinion, certain minutes will be ineffective.
Let's assume you're right for a second... the coach on the bench will be making those evaluations anyway.
Are you sure you're not just the coach of your team in NHL '11?
TWO defensemen play over 26 minutes per game in the NHL this year. TWO. What the hell do you know about the NHL that 28 other coaches don't about playing a #2 THAT much?
For a guy with Holmstrom's reputation on the PP, you'd think he'd bring more to the table than a single 6th in PP goals.
This is true, but I always thought it wasn't just the aggregate goal production that made him strong on the PP. Who knows how many goals were caused simply because he was in his office, even though he didn't get credit.
- A wonderful top 6. You absolutely did the right thing by splitting up Bobby and Brett. Lemaire is still a perfectly solid partner for Hull, who just needs someone to get the puck over to him. He can do the rest.
- Forsberg is probably in my top 5 non-Habs players of all-time. Love the way he plays, and he falls into the Eric Lindros category of "how much better could he have been?". Kirk Muller is probably a poor 2nd liner here, but I understand why he's up there
- Decent 3rd line. Don't know very much about Ward, but Broten and Drury were both very adequate performers.
- Like the 4th line, if you're going for shutdown. Duchesne was a very strong PKer whom I forgot about when I was picking, and Jarvis is someone you certainly don't have to worry about getting injured, and he's also quite good.
- In my honest opinion, your defense, as a whole, is average at best. I've actually never seen anyone use Reg Noble as a defenseman, so I really find that to be intriguing. Hatcher is also a good shutdown guy.
- Rafalski and Ulf are good contrast, the typical offense/defense pairing.
- I honestly don't know much about Seiling, and Lumme stopped playing right around the time I got into hockey.
- The way you've listed your PP units somewhat confuses me. I understand Muller/Drury are the face-off men, but then what?
- No issues with the PK units
- Babcock is a solid coach who will likely continue to rise in the rankings. He may be top 15-20 material soon, if he isn't already
Reg Noble was a fantastic defensive player his entire career.. but using him as a defenseman really lowers his offensive value by quite a bit. He's the kinda guy that I would use as a forward on the 1st or 2nd line as a glue guy, make him a great corner/net presence on the PP and play him at defense on the PK.
This is true, but I always thought it wasn't just the aggregate goal production that made him strong on the PP. Who knows how many goals were caused simply because he was in his office, even though he didn't get credit.
Hmm.. that's a fair point. But how do you "quantify" that? For a guy with his reputation as "one of the best at what he does", I really would like to see a quantified analysis of it, simply because it's hard to gauge just how effective he'd be in the ATD. If his reputation holds true, then he's likely to boost PP offense simply by just being there, and that in and of itself demands that he gets drafted higher than usual (how many guys can that actually be said of?).
Reg Noble was a fantastic defensive player his entire career.. but using him as a defenseman really lowers his offensive value by quite a bit. He's the kinda guy that I would use as a forward on the 1st or 2nd line as a glue guy, make him a great corner/net presence on the PP and play him at defense on the PK.
Yes, I knew he was quite strong defensively.
I've always viewed him primarily as a forward, and I'd often forget that he could drop back to defense. I was merely commenting on how I hadn't seen anyone in the ATD do it before (since I've started).
Only problem for nik is that taking away Noble likely makes Derain Hatcher is #1 defenseman, which is not god enough, IMO. Ron Stackhouse is good enough to be a starting defenseman in a 40 team draft, though, so he won't have any trouble with depth.
As I said before, Hod Stuart is my #2 defenseman, and will be getting the 2nd most minutes.
Here are the minutes (ES, PP, PK):
Ray Bourque 20+4+4 = 28
Hod Stuart 20+3+3 = 26
Ted Green 18+0+4 = 22
Pat Egan 18+4+0 = 22
Ken Randall 8+0+3 = 11
Hy Buller 8+0+0 = 8
(As of right now, the last 3 minutes go to Jack Marshall on the PP)
I understand, that your 3rd pairing isn't the best, but still they together get only 1/6 of possible D TOI, are they THAT bad? i mean, Buller doesn't play on any special teams, and gets only 8 minutes. I'm not sure why did pick him if you don't trust him at all.
Quote:
Looks like I'm higher on Green and Egan than a lot of people. I'll have to get selling them.
Just curious, what don't you like about Egan? He's an explosive scorer and big time physical presence.
i don't have a problem with Egan per se, not a fan of his skillset, reminds me of Phaneuf, but that are my preferences, they are not objective. Still i won't question that he is a fine 4th D with a right partner, my problem is, that him and Green, who while may get less TOI than Stuart still going to play against opponents' top lines, are asked to do more than they may be capable of, look at your chart - they both are getting 2 minutes less ES TOI than Bourque, basically 2 shifts less.
Hmm.. that's a fair point. But how do you "quantify" that? For a guy with his reputation as "one of the best at what he does", I really would like to see a quantified analysis of it, simply because it's hard to gauge just how effective he'd be in the ATD. If his reputation holds true, then he's likely to boost PP offense simply by just being there, and that in and of itself demands that he gets drafted higher than usual (how many guys can that actually be said of?).
You can't, but there's many unquantifiable things in the ATD that we take as true. How do we quantify defensive excellence, really? Number of newspaper quotes?
We're fortunate enough to be in a position where we are all able to watch Holmstrom live, so we don't need quotes or quantifiable stats to justify something like "how effective Holmstrom is at screening the goalie". Screening the goalie is generally an effective offensive practice, and Holmstrom never seems to shy away from doing it. He's certainly the strongest and most consistent "front man" I've seen since I've started watching.
But no, it's not quantifiable. You're right on that regard.
I've always viewed him primarily as a forward, and I'd often forget that he could drop back to defense. I was merely commenting on how I hadn't seen anyone in the ATD do it before (since I've started).
Only problem for nik is that taking away Noble likely makes Derain Hatcher is #1 defenseman, which is not god enough, IMO. Ron Stackhouse is good enough to be a starting defenseman in a 40 team draft, though, so he won't have any trouble with depth.
nik definitely has to sleep in the bed he has made with Noble. The nice thing is, though, if the situation warrants it (injuries, etc.), Noble can very seamlessly switch to forward. He really should be listed as a F/D, I read a quote in UH that stated that a guy said that Reg Noble could play any forward position. Here's my LC ATD3 bio of him:
I really wish nik did a profile on noble. Hatcher is a #3 playing over his head as a #2, so it would be really good to know just how good noble was. As a defenseman, he wasn't much of a scorer, right? I could see nik having major trouble with the transition game if noble isn't good at it. Hatcher and Ulf provide nothing in the puck moving dept and how many ES minutes do younwant to give rafalski at this level?
That said, his one-two punch at forward provides all kinds of issues formteams with just one checking unit.
You can't, but there's many unquantifiable things in the ATD that we take as true. How do we quantify defensive excellence, really? Number of newspaper quotes?
We're fortunate enough to be in a position where we are all able to watch Holmstrom live, so we don't need quotes or quantifiable stats to justify something like "how effective Holmstrom is at screening the goalie". Screening the goalie is generally an effective offensive practice, and Holmstrom never seems to shy away from doing it. He's certainly the strongest and most consistent "front man" I've seen since I've started watching.
But no, it's not quantifiable. You're right on that regard.
The best way I can see is PP% with Holmstrom around and PP% without him. overpass might be the only one who can do this, but Holmstrom is injured enough that the sample size with him off should be fairly significant. Because of the nature of his job, I think this is a valid comparison.
I really wish nik did a profile on noble. Hatcher is a #3 playing over his head as a #2, so it would be really good to know just how good noble was. As a defenseman, he wasn't much of a scorer, right? I could see nik having major trouble with the transition game if noble isn't good at it. Hatcher and Ulf provide nil in the puck moving dept and how many ES minutes do younwant to give rafalski at this level?
That said, his one-two punch at forward provides all kinds of issues formteams with just one checking unit.
I understand, that your 3rd pairing isn't the best, but still they together get only 1/6 of possible D TOI, are they THAT bad? i mean, Buller doesn't play on any special teams, and gets only 8 minutes. I'm not sure why did pick him if you don't trust him at all..
Dreak is just trying to see what he can get away with. Everyone wants to clone their #1 and play them 60 minutes a game.
The best way I can see is PP% with Holmstrom around and PP% without him. overpass might be the only one who can do this, but Holmstrom is injured enough that the sample size with him off should be fairly significant. Because of the nature of his job, I think this is a valid comparison.
I would be very interested to see the results of this analysis, should it be done. I think it can definitely justify Holmstrom as a 4th line PP specialist in the ATD, or it can relegate him to spare/MLD status.
Because, as far as I'm concerned, there's no need to pick him unless you're using him on the PP. Is he good defensively?
nik definitely has to sleep in the bed he has made with Noble. The nice thing is, though, if the situation warrants it (injuries, etc.), Noble can very seamlessly switch to forward. He really should be listed as a F/D, I read a quote in UH that stated that a guy said that Reg Noble could play any forward position. Here's my LC ATD3 bio of him:
But from your top 10 scoring finishes, he only has a 6th and a 7th as a defenseman (if I'm reading that properly), so I assume that his offensive production drops significantly if he's used on defense.
The best way I can see is PP% with Holmstrom around and PP% without him. overpass might be the only one who can do this, but Holmstrom is injured enough that the sample size with him off should be fairly significant. Because of the nature of his job, I think this is a valid comparison.
Do you really need stats to quantify holmstrom's effect on the PP? It's not like Detroit is an obscure team - they made back to back finals!
I would be very interested to see the results of this analysis, should it be done. I think it can definitely justify Holmstrom as a 4th line PP specialist in the ATD, or it can relegate him to spare/MLD status.
Because, as far as I'm concerned, there's no need to pick him unless you're using him on the PP. Is he good defensively?
No. Holmstrom is basically useless at everything except plugging the RW spot beside Datsyuk and making the goalie stare at his ass for 2 minutes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight
A fair quote.
But from your top 10 scoring finishes, he only has a 6th and a 7th as a defenseman (if I'm reading that properly), so I assume that his offensive production drops significantly if he's used on defense.
And a great playoff as well (whatever that means when you've only scored 2 points, but still tops all defensemen).
