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Old
04-07-2011, 02:53 AM
  #1
LightningStrikes
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Bucs, Rays & Other Florida Sports Teams Thread

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Originally Posted by Moo View Post
Downie,

To be fair, as I want to see this again, but you don't suppose the third baseman was throwing home for the force but in the process of his normal windup inadvertently touched third for the force?
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Originally Posted by donGjohnson View Post
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Originally Posted by Genius Brian Lawton View Post
You're so far off base its ridiculous.
I know it sounds ridiculous at first, but really think it over for a few minutes. The money was spent at first, but attendance didn't pick up enough to justify it, right? So they can say "we're losing money and nobody will help us out, we spent to win and nobody cared!" Can't get a new stadium, so you can get away with cutting salary, the team has a couple bad years now, attendance drops off a bit, the owners threaten to move the team if the new place isn't built.

All owners know this strategy. It's literally page 1, you can call me a crazy cynic, conspiracy theorist or whatever, but how many times has it played out this way before? If it sounds wild, I can name a dozen cities that've basically seen it done to a tee.
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Downie,

It was STO's Key Play of the Game. He definitely was throwing home for the force and inadvertantly touched third. Fluke play. They did get an out; just not the one they wanted. But with A-Cab homering the next at-bat it doesn't really matter.

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04-07-2011, 11:37 AM
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IdealisticSniper
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It took all of 5 games for Manny to be benched. Nice.

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04-07-2011, 11:53 AM
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I had no idea donGjohnson was really St. Pete mayor Bud Foster.

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04-07-2011, 12:02 PM
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Manny is so NOT all in

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04-07-2011, 02:14 PM
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Manny was over .500 for his career against Haren with 3 homers. Makes sense Joe would bench him.

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04-07-2011, 02:51 PM
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Well, three things:

1.) The Papa John's pizza offer for 10K games has changed. You have to have a ticket stub now. Last year you filled a coupon out online even if you didn't go to the game. I am saddened because I abused the heck out of it last year.

2.) The Red Sox are still winless. Lost to Cleveland 1-0 today.

3.) Derek Shelton sucks. Why does Maddon still have him on the staff?

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04-07-2011, 03:06 PM
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4-2 and in first place. A suicide squeeze to win the game, something Wedge never did. Shelton is awful, if this continues for a few more weeks which is bad for the Rays, but it'll get Shelton fired. Pick your poison.

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04-07-2011, 03:52 PM
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04-07-2011, 04:56 PM
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I demand the OT thread be renamed the Derek Shelton is Terrible thread for a day or so.

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04-07-2011, 07:49 PM
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I had no idea donGjohnson was really St. Pete mayor Bud Foster.
LOL. Thanks for 0-6, Stu.

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04-07-2011, 07:57 PM
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LOL. Thanks for 0-6, Stu.
Cause its Stus fault?

**** Shelton. Anyways who cares, this is my religious holiday for the next month and a half... the stanley cup playoffs. Ahhhhhhhhh.

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04-07-2011, 07:58 PM
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It's not Stu's fault our offense has been underachieving like nothing I've ever seen. Damon called a players only meeting today, so hopefully that starts a fire under their *****.

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04-07-2011, 08:06 PM
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Just curious where you guys think the offense should actually be coming from? Aside from Longoria (who is hurt still correct?), we have no real bats.

And dont say Ramirez or Damon because both, as I pointed out when they signed, are washed up bums.

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04-07-2011, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Just curious where you guys think the offense should actually be coming from? Aside from Longoria (who is hurt still correct?), we have no real bats.

And dont say Ramirez or Damon because both, as I pointed out when they signed, are washed up bums.
Ramirez is one of the best hitters baseball has seen since he entered the league, and his BA was .298 in what was an "off" year 2010. Furthermore, his OBP blew any of our players out of the water. I'm not huge on Damon at 7 mil, but to say we have no real bats is pretty ridiculous. Plus, we're supposed to be a small ball team, for the most part. To have success, we need solid pitching, good defense, and smart hitting. The guys just need to put good swings on the ball and get on base, and we'll grind away. This team doesn't need to crush homers to win.

Derek Shelton is a disgrace to baseball and a massive hindrance to our offense, so at this point we can only hope the players smarten up at the plate.

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04-07-2011, 08:20 PM
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Matt Joyce batting about 2 quarters won't do a lot for us. It's just roster turnover, obviously, the team isn't that bad. Losing Longo hurts though and yes, Shelton should die. Keeping him was a clusterf**k.

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04-07-2011, 08:22 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by The Alaskan Assassin View Post
Ramirez is one of the best hitters baseball has seen since he entered the league, and his BA was .298 in what was an "off" year 2010. Furthermore, his OBP blew any of our players out of the water. I'm not huge on Damon at 7 mil, but to say we have no real bats is pretty ridiculous. Plus, we're supposed to be a small ball team, for the most part. To have success, we need solid pitching, good defense, and smart hitting. The guys just need to put good swings on the ball and get on base, and we'll grind away. This team doesn't need to crush homers to win.

Derek Shelton is a disgrace to baseball and a massive hindrance to our offense, so at this point we can only hope the players smarten up at the plate.
By bats I didnt necessarily mean home runs, I meant offense in general.

Ramirez has been on his way down for the past few seasons IMO with his attitude. I think this is the year his attitude effects his stats as well. Im sure he will do a few good things but there will be more negative than positive with him Im sure.

Shelton, obviously is a major problem, but it cant all be put on him. Theres not much power or contact ability on this team to create offense at will like there has been in the past few years.

The team has solid defense, ok pitching at best (when taking all pitching areas into account), and not much of an offense to speak of.

I just think its gonna be a looooooong season.

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04-07-2011, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
By bats I didnt necessarily mean home runs, I meant offense in general.

Ramirez has been on his way down for the past few seasons IMO with his attitude. I think this is the year his attitude effects his stats as well. Im sure he will do a few good things but there will be more negative than positive with him Im sure.

Shelton, obviously is a major problem, but it cant all be put on him. Theres not much power or contact ability on this team to create offense at will like there has been in the past few years.

The team has solid defense, ok pitching at best (when taking all pitching areas into account), and not much of an offense to speak of.

I just think its gonna be a looooooong season.
I don't think Manny's attitude will be an issue, and our pitching isn't "ok at best". We have one of the better starting pitching staffs in baseball, and it's a young group that should only improve. I also don't think the core of Peralta, Cruz, McGee, Ramos and Howell (when healthy) is all that bad for a bullpen. I'm not saying it's great by any means, and I am upset that we lack a real closer, but at the same time we were almost spoiled last year. If the players play the way they are capable of, this team will win games. I think it's only a matter of time too.

To me, it's guys just getting away from their game, and not just slumping. That's why I think Shelton should be held accountable in large part, and we never seem to hear about practices regarding trying to analyze what guys are doing wrong at the plate.

Our offense, while currently pathetic, is not typically a .140 hitting group. I think guys will start coming into their own sooner rather than later.

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04-07-2011, 09:01 PM
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It's not like we just can't hit, we can't get on base either. Guys were having horrible ABs (especially Shoppach, holy ****. oifjsdiofjdosifsdioj)

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04-07-2011, 09:48 PM
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Tampa Bay Rays - going from 3rd to 30th in 2.5 weeks

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04-07-2011, 10:33 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by The Alaskan Assassin View Post
To me, it's guys just getting away from their game, and not just slumping. That's why I think Shelton should be held accountable in large part, and we never seem to hear about practices regarding trying to analyze what guys are doing wrong at the plate.

Our offense, while currently pathetic, is not typically a .140 hitting group. I think guys will start coming into their own sooner rather than later.
Not the first time I've ranted on this in this forum before, but again, I bring up that in August 2007, the ALCS-bound Cleveland Indians had a heck of a hitting slump. Had it not been for Asdrubal Cabrera's call-up saving the Tribe's butt, there wouldn't have been playoffs for Cleveland, because you can only do so much with the awesome pitching the Tribe had that year (CC and Fausto; remember, Cliff Lee was sucking bad and got demoted to AAA -- the move that changed his career for the better.) Even in the playoffs, there were many times that key hits were not to be found. It took bugs, not offense, to beat the Yankees in a key game.

The following season, there was a hitting slump from the start that killed any chances of a repeat playoff appearance. And then there was a third slump. And then the trades were made. And then Wedge went bye-bye, and so did his staff.

Maddon and the Rays are idiots for hiring Shelton. There's no reason he should have stayed. The offense has regressed. There is a clear pattern between bad offense and Shelton being the hitting coach. Shelton's answer (and Wedge's answer, too, because they were BFFs) was that the Indians could hit themselves out of a slump. Well, they didn't do it in Cleveland, and they aren't doing it here.

How long do you wait before you realize the season is over because there is no offense? The pitching hasn't really been bad, but the AL traditionally has higher ERAs. You need offense. You need run support. This team may have lost a couple of key bats but the production shouldn't have gone down *that* much. No excuse for it. Shelton HAS to be held accountable. Fire him and get a real coach in there to teach hitting.

I knew this stuff would happen when the Rays hired him. I texted my brother that very day and said his Rays were screwed. Sadly I'm a prophet on this, and it didn't have to be this way.

The Indians fired Eddie Murray for Shelton. I don't know who was the Rays' hitting coach before Shelton or how bad that guy was or why he left, but I'd have paid him triple before getting Shelton in the position.

They say that when you point a finger of blame at somebody or something, there are three fingers pointing right back at you. But there are exceptions to every rule, and Shelton is proof of this. He needs to go, before things get worse -- and trust me, they will!

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04-07-2011, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Moo View Post
Not the first time I've ranted on this in this forum before, but again, I bring up that in August 2007, the ALCS-bound Cleveland Indians had a heck of a hitting slump. Had it not been for Asdrubal Cabrera's call-up saving the Tribe's butt, there wouldn't have been playoffs for Cleveland, because you can only do so much with the awesome pitching the Tribe had that year (CC and Fausto; remember, Cliff Lee was sucking bad and got demoted to AAA -- the move that changed his career for the better.) Even in the playoffs, there were many times that key hits were not to be found. It took bugs, not offense, to beat the Yankees in a key game.

The following season, there was a hitting slump from the start that killed any chances of a repeat playoff appearance. And then there was a third slump. And then the trades were made. And then Wedge went bye-bye, and so did his staff.

Maddon and the Rays are idiots for hiring Shelton. There's no reason he should have stayed. The offense has regressed. There is a clear pattern between bad offense and Shelton being the hitting coach. Shelton's answer (and Wedge's answer, too, because they were BFFs) was that the Indians could hit themselves out of a slump. Well, they didn't do it in Cleveland, and they aren't doing it here.

How long do you wait before you realize the season is over because there is no offense? The pitching hasn't really been bad, but the AL traditionally has higher ERAs. You need offense. You need run support. This team may have lost a couple of key bats but the production shouldn't have gone down *that* much. No excuse for it. Shelton HAS to be held accountable. Fire him and get a real coach in there to teach hitting.

I knew this stuff would happen when the Rays hired him. I texted my brother that very day and said his Rays were screwed. Sadly I'm a prophet on this, and it didn't have to be this way.

The Indians fired Eddie Murray for Shelton. I don't know who was the Rays' hitting coach before Shelton or how bad that guy was or why he left, but I'd have paid him triple before getting Shelton in the position.

They say that when you point a finger of blame at somebody or something, there are three fingers pointing right back at you. But there are exceptions to every rule, and Shelton is proof of this. He needs to go, before things get worse -- and trust me, they will!
I think we're on the same page here. There is zero doubt that Shelton is an awful hitting coach, and there has to be blame put on him. That said, I don't think it's realistic to think that we'll continue this way all season. We've won in spite of Shelton and Maddon plenty of times, there's no reason we can't start doing that again. I also doubt Shelton goes anywhere because Maddon and company love him.

I didn't think we'd make the playoffs before the season, and I REALLY don't now, unless some major changes are made. Firing Shelton would be a lovely first step.

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04-07-2011, 11:41 PM
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I think we're on the same page here. There is zero doubt that Shelton is an awful hitting coach, and there has to be blame put on him. That said, I don't think it's realistic to think that we'll continue this way all season. We've won in spite of Shelton and Maddon plenty of times, there's no reason we can't start doing that again. I also doubt Shelton goes anywhere because Maddon and company love him.

I didn't think we'd make the playoffs before the season, and I REALLY don't now, unless some major changes are made. Firing Shelton would be a lovely first step.
Problem is, if you fired Shelton this week, how long would it take to get the new hitting coach's input to help the team? And, would it be too late by then? You can't win a division in April but you can sure as heck lose it.

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04-08-2011, 04:23 PM
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@SPTimesRays Marc Topkin
Manny has retired
And the Rays keep on plunging further. Oof.

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04-08-2011, 04:33 PM
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Rays DH Manny Ramirez has retired after "an issue" with an MLB drug test.

According to an MLB release: “Major League Baseball recently notified Manny Ramirez of an issue under Major League Baseball’s Joint
Drug Prevention and Treatment Program. Rather than continue with the process under the Program, Ramirez has informed MLB that he is retiring as an active player. If Ramirez seeks reinstatement in the future, the process under the Drug Program will be completed. MLB will not have any further comment on this matter."

The Rays appeared to be caught off-guard by the news and were scrambling to get another player to Chicago for tonight's game. Ramirez had missed Thursday's game for what manager Joe Maddon said was a "personal matter" and a "family thing" and was sure Ramirez would rejoin the Rays for tonight's game.

In a statement, the Rays said: "The Tampa Bay Rays were informed today by the Commissioner’s Office that Manny Ramirez has decided to retire after being informed of an issue under the Drug Program. We are obviously surprised and disappointed by this news. We will have no further comment on this matter, and our fans and organization will carry on.”
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/rays/c...tires#comments

Bye bye Hall of fame. I was really hoping he would turn it around. What a shame.

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04-08-2011, 04:39 PM
  #25
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So was Manny trying to have kids with fertility drugs again, or whatever BS hogwash story that was going around last time?

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