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I propose that a Shootout Specialist is worth more to a team than a Goon

View Poll Results: Which would you rather have?
The best heavyweight in the league to protect your team. (Not a great in game player) 14 11.97%
The best shootout specialist in the league, just in case. (Not a great in game player) 78 66.67%
Neither, don't waste a spot for them. 25 21.37%
Voters: 117. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-08-2011, 06:33 AM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Your the one who is questioning if he is good enough to play in the NHL, I know he will be playing in the NHL...you know what is nonsense that I am wasting my time discussing it with you.
Appears you waste lots of time. Your analogy skills are off the charts bad. Your knowledge that someone will be a difference maker in the NHL when he hasn't even played in the AHL is laughable.

Boogaard and Orr aren't Lucic. Yeah, you claim to already know that but it is disputed by almost all of your posts. When confronted with facts you tell me that I'm rooting against a player I have never seen, which to me is beyond stupid. Does anyone root against a prospect of a team that they root for? Does this mean that you might be rooting against a smallish player? If someone said that to you they would be an idiot. Or would they?

To you Colton Orr and Boogaard are important NHL players, so your ability to discern what is and is not important is far below questionable.

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04-08-2011, 06:57 AM
  #127
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Appears you waste lots of time. Your analogy skills are off the charts bad. Your knowledge that someone will be a difference maker in the NHL when he hasn't even played in the AHL is laughable.

Boogaard and Orr aren't Lucic. Yeah, you claim to already know that but it is disputed by almost all of your posts. When confronted with facts you tell me that I'm rooting against a player I have never seen, which to me is beyond stupid. Does anyone root against a prospect of a team that they root for? Does this mean that you might be rooting against a smallish player? If someone said that to you they would be an idiot. Or would they?

To you Colton Orr and Boogaard are important NHL players, so your ability to discern what is and is not important is far below questionable.
Yes, Colton Orr for MVP.

I never root against a Ranger player or prospect, even if I despise them i.e Drury and Rozy.

Their are so many experts on this board, you being one of them, just because you are 70 years old doesn't make you are better judge of talent.

If I was a GM, I would build my team the way the Bruins, Pens, Sharks and the Ducks have...with skill, speed, size, power and brutality. I want guys who can score, guys that can defend and guys who can protect themselves and their teammates.

I am willing to get rid of EC, Wolski, Avery and incorporate bigger guys who possess skills, such as Lucic and Clowe, if that makes me obsolete, then I am obsolete.

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04-08-2011, 09:25 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Yes, Colton Orr for MVP.

I never root against a Ranger player or prospect, even if I despise them i.e Drury and Rozy.

Their are so many experts on this board, you being one of them, just because you are 70 years old doesn't make you are better judge of talent.

If I was a GM, I would build my team the way the Bruins, Pens, Sharks and the Ducks have...with skill, speed, size, power and brutality. I want guys who can score, guys that can defend and guys who can protect themselves and their teammates.

I am willing to get rid of EC, Wolski, Avery and incorporate bigger guys who possess skills, such as Lucic and Clowe, if that makes me obsolete, then I am obsolete.
You keep changing your position and sometimes you do not understand that clowe does not equal boogaard. You switch between lying and displaying a lack of knowledge. When called on it you lash out because at some level you understand that your positions often make no sense. Only when confronted do you admit that a boogaard is not a lucic. Until then you are adamant that we need a boogaard because another team has an utalented bear on ice skates.

Logic is not your friend.

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04-08-2011, 09:53 AM
  #129
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The Rangers scouts wanted Jessiman. The kids on this board wanted Parise.
i like this.

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04-08-2011, 09:56 AM
  #130
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anyone else tired of the "i know more about hockey because i've been watching it since before you were born" argument?

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04-08-2011, 10:05 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
You keep changing your position and sometimes you do not understand that clowe does not equal boogaard. You switch between lying and displaying a lack of knowledge. When called on it you lash out because at some level you understand that your positions often make no sense. Only when confronted do you admit that a boogaard is not a lucic. Until then you are adamant that we need a boogaard because another team has an utalented bear on ice skates.

Logic is not your friend.
Yes, I do not understand Ryan Clowe and Derek Boogaard are not the same players, please explain that to me.

You got me dead to right on that one.

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04-08-2011, 10:16 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Yes, Colton Orr for MVP.

I never root against a Ranger player or prospect, even if I despise them i.e Drury and Rozy.

Their are so many experts on this board, you being one of them, just because you are 70 years old doesn't make you are better judge of talent.

If I was a GM, I would build my team the way the Bruins, Pens, Sharks and the Ducks have...with skill, speed, size, power and brutality. I want guys who can score, guys that can defend and guys who can protect themselves and their teammates.

I am willing to get rid of EC, Wolski, Avery and incorporate bigger guys who possess skills, such as Lucic and Clowe, if that makes me obsolete, then I am obsolete.
Really? Because if i was GM I'd like to model my team after Detroit or New Jersey.

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04-08-2011, 10:45 AM
  #133
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Really? Because if i was GM I'd like to model my team after Detroit or New Jersey.
I would take either of those teams as well...Detroit is the only team that gets away with not having muscle on their team...but the Devils always have big skilled guys on their team...but the Devils are saddled with Kovy for the next 8 years, not sure how productive they are going to be...they might have run their course.

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04-08-2011, 10:57 AM
  #134
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I would take either of those teams as well...Detroit is the only team that gets away with not having muscle on their team...but the Devils always have big skilled guys on their team...but the Devils are saddled with Kovy for the next 8 years, not sure how productive they are going to be...they might have run their course.
I agree in the areas that you discuss team toughness and needing guys around who protect other players. But I also think you are a little over the top in the necessity you make this out to be.

There's no need for guys like Boogaard on a team. That was a terrible signing, along with Brashear. I have no problem with players like Neil and Clowe, but to say that the team would be better off with Clowe and McIlrath than Richards, is just asinine.

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04-08-2011, 11:12 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Yes, Colton Orr for MVP.

I never root against a Ranger player or prospect, even if I despise them i.e Drury and Rozy.

Their are so many experts on this board, you being one of them, just because you are 70 years old doesn't make you are better judge of talent.

If I was a GM, I would build my team the way the Bruins, Pens, Sharks and the Ducks have...with skill, speed, size, power and brutality. I want guys who can score, guys that can defend and guys who can protect themselves and their teammates.

I am willing to get rid of EC, Wolski, Avery and incorporate bigger guys who possess skills, such as Lucic and Clowe, if that makes me obsolete, then I am obsolete.
backes is another guy i wish we could have.
as to your other point of a crease clearing dman im thinking sauer can fill that role aswell, at least i hope

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04-08-2011, 11:13 AM
  #136
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I agree in the areas that you discuss team toughness and needing guys around who protect other players. But I also think you are a little over the top in the necessity you make this out to be.

There's no need for guys like Boogaard on a team. That was a terrible signing, along with Brashear. I have no problem with players like Neil and Clowe, but to say that the team would be better off with Clowe and McIlrath than Richards, is just asinine.
ok...I am not saying the McIlrath is ready...but long run, i would rather have him over Flower...Richards is a better player than Clowe, but Clowe offers alot of intangiblies that Richards doesn't and the points aren't that glaring...74 to 62, just one man's opinion, I can't convince the Richards lovers differently.

How is Richards going to look in 4 years when he is making $8 million a year. He is going to be 31 in less than a month...I smell Drury!

I would think the Gomez and Drury signings would have taught us something but that is just asinine for me to think that.

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04-08-2011, 11:14 AM
  #137
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backes is another guy i wish we could have.
as to your other point of a crease clearing dman im thinking sauer can fill that role aswell, at least i hope
Backes is a bad ass and what about Chris Stewart...Blues suck this year...but man o'man those two guys in the same lineup...yikes!

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04-08-2011, 11:16 AM
  #138
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ok...I am not saying the McIlrath is ready...but long run, i would rather have him over Flower...Richards is a better player than Clowe, but Clowe offers alot of intangiblies that Richards doesn't and the points aren't that glaring...74 to 62, just one man's opinion, I can't convince the Richards lovers differently.

How is Richards going to look in 4 years when he is making $8 million a year. He is going to be 31 in less than a month...I smell Drury!

I would think the Gomez and Drury signings would have taught us something but that is just asinine for me to think that.
First off, Drury was never NEAR the player Richards is. Richards is an elite, #1, playmaking center. Drury was never more than a 2nd liner, who topped out, in a career year at 69 points.

I also love how you advocate for Clowe by bringing up his "intangibles" and then go on to say, "i smell drury" in regards to signing richards.

I am in no way a Richards love either, in fact, i'm completely indifferent as to whether or not they sign him. But to compare him to Drury is just a joke and proves you have never seen Richards play. Clowe is a complementary player, Richards is an on-ice leader. Huge difference.

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04-08-2011, 11:20 AM
  #139
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First off, Drury was never NEAR the player Richards is. Richards is an elite, #1, playmaking center. Drury was never more than a 2nd liner, who topped out, in a career year at 69 points.

I also love how you advocate for Clowe by bringing up his "intangibles" and then go on to say, "i smell drury" in regards to signing richards.

I am in no way a Richards love either, in fact, i'm completely indifferent as to whether or not they sign him. But to compare him to Drury is just a joke and proves you have never seen Richards play. Clowe is a complementary player, Richards is an on-ice leader. Huge difference.
Are the Stars in the playoffs?

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04-08-2011, 11:22 AM
  #140
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First off, Drury was never NEAR the player Richards is. Richards is an elite, #1, playmaking center. Drury was never more than a 2nd liner, who topped out, in a career year at 69 points.

I also love how you advocate for Clowe by bringing up his "intangibles" and then go on to say, "i smell drury" in regards to signing richards.

I am in no way a Richards love either, in fact, i'm completely indifferent as to whether or not they sign him. But to compare him to Drury is just a joke and proves you have never seen Richards play. Clowe is a complementary player, Richards is an on-ice leader. Huge difference.
Just saying Richards will be 31 in May. He is going to command at least 7.5 to 8.0 million a year for 5-7 years.

That is alot of money to invest in a player...just ask the Devils.

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04-08-2011, 11:28 AM
  #141
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Are the Stars in the playoffs?
What does that have to do with this? A lot of teams with elite players aren't in the playoffs. It might have something to do with hockey being a team sport. But I guess Duchene, Iginla, Taveres, E. Staal etc. all suck too.

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Just saying Richards will be 31 in May. He is going to command at least 7.5 to 8.0 million a year for 5-7 years.

That is alot of money to invest in a player...just ask the Devils.
Yes, that is a lot of money to invest in a player, but occasionally it is worth it. I don't think the Devils are too upset about signing Kovalchuk either. He had a down year for him and still managed to score 30 goals. Wait until next year when he has Parise back for the full season as well. They put together one of the best runs in recent memory and although they fell short of the playoffs will right back where they normally are next year.

Sometimes spending money is the right thing to do. Sather has just done such a poor job of money management that it has scared people from thinking we should EVER spend that kind of money again. Their are always going to be "what ifs," however Richards is a guy who is worth the contract he commands. Can't say the same for Gomez, Drury, Redden etc.

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04-08-2011, 11:30 AM
  #142
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What does that have to do with this? A lot of teams with elite players aren't in the playoffs. It might have something to do with hockey being a team sport. But I guess Duchene, Iginla, Taveres, E. Staal etc. all suck too.



Yes, that is a lot of money to invest in a player, but occasionally it is worth it. I don't think the Devils are too upset about signing Kovalchuk either. He had a down year for him and still managed to score 30 goals. Wait until next year when he has Parise back for the full season as well. They put together one of the best runs in recent memory and although they fell short of the playoffs will right back where they normally are next year.

Sometimes spending money is the right thing to do. Sather has just done such a poor job of money management that it has scared people from thinking we should EVER spend that kind of money again. Their are always going to be "what ifs," however Richards is a guy who is worth the contract he commands. Can't say the same for Gomez, Drury, Redden etc.
So, you have no problem with Richards making 8 million when he is 36 - 37 year old player.

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04-08-2011, 11:31 AM
  #143
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What does that have to do with this? A lot of teams with elite players aren't in the playoffs. It might have something to do with hockey being a team sport. But I guess Duchene, Iginla, Taveres, E. Staal etc. all suck too.



Yes, that is a lot of money to invest in a player, but occasionally it is worth it. I don't think the Devils are too upset about signing Kovalchuk either. He had a down year for him and still managed to score 30 goals. Wait until next year when he has Parise back for the full season as well. They put together one of the best runs in recent memory and although they fell short of the playoffs will right back where they normally are next year.

Sometimes spending money is the right thing to do. Sather has just done such a poor job of money management that it has scared people from thinking we should EVER spend that kind of money again. Their are always going to be "what ifs," however Richards is a guy who is worth the contract he commands. Can't say the same for Gomez, Drury, Redden etc.
Richars last 14 games, 11 points -3, during the most important time of the year.

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04-08-2011, 11:32 AM
  #144
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So, you have no problem with Richards making 8 million when he is 36 - 37 year old player.
i totally understand what your saying, but honestly i wouldn't mind if sometime in his tenure we won a cup. big if though

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04-08-2011, 11:34 AM
  #145
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So, you have no problem with Richards making 8 million when he is 36 - 37 year old player.
Obviously their are limits on what he should be given. As I've stated before I wouldn't like anything more than a 5 year contract.

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Richars last 14 games, 11 points -3, during the most important time of the year.
He's coming back from a concussion and still putting up nearly a ppg. He also lost his best friend and top linemate for the past couple years. So not only is he not at 100% health wise, but the guy he had the most chemistry with is gone. I'd say both occurrences will take a toll on his production.

In addition, overall, the stars just aren't that good.

74 points in 70 games this year and 91 points in 80 games last year. The guy is elite, why are you trying to prove he's not?

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04-08-2011, 11:46 AM
  #146
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Just saying Richards will be 31 in May. He is going to command at least 7.5 to 8.0 million a year for 5-7 years.

That is alot of money to invest in a player...just ask the Devils.
I agree. But you have to wonder when and if a center of his caliber will come on the market in future for only cash.

I joke about Crosby being a UFA in 2013... but most of these top players never get to unrestricted free agency. The best we have had in recent years is star European wingers (Gaborik, Hossa, Kovalchuk) with two of those having major question marks, and both Gaborik and Kovalchuk having turned down more lucrative deals already from their host clubs compared to what they got in free agency.

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04-08-2011, 11:50 AM
  #147
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Obviously their are limits on what he should be given. As I've stated before I wouldn't like anything more than a 5 year contract.



He's coming back from a concussion and still putting up nearly a ppg. He also lost his best friend and top linemate for the past couple years. So not only is he not at 100% health wise, but the guy he had the most chemistry with is gone. I'd say both occurrences will take a toll on his production.

In addition, overall, the stars just aren't that good.

74 points in 70 games this year and 91 points in 80 games last year. The guy is elite, why are you trying to prove he's not?
I am not...I am just stating his numbers. Math doesn't lie. The concussion scares me. I wouldn't be opposed to signing him but I think he is going to command a lot and be given a lot.

The majority of the fans are looking to run Gabby out of town, I just see the same thing happening with Richards if his production was to slip and the most important thing to understand is the Rangers have to pay up for Dubi, Cally, AA and Boyle and then Drury would have to retire.

I am willing to live with the growing pains and not lock up long term big money on Free Agents because I want to save that cap space for our homegrown kids.

I am not saying I am right or you are wrong, I have been around long enough to know that signing Free Agents has usually worked against us more times than not.

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04-08-2011, 11:51 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I am not...I am just stating his numbers. Math doesn't lie. The concussion scares me. I wouldn't be opposed to signing him but I think he is going to command a lot and be given a lot.

The majority of the fans are looking to run Gabby out of town, I just see the same thing happening with Richards if his production was to slip and the most important thing to understand is the Rangers have to pay up for Dubi, Cally, AA and Boyle and then Drury would have to retire.

I am willing to live with the growing pains and not lock up long term big money on Free Agents because I want to save that cap space for our homegrown kids.

I am not saying I am right or you are wrong, I have been around long enough to know that signing Free Agents has usually worked against us more times than not.
Our homegrown kids won't make us contenders.

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04-08-2011, 11:56 AM
  #149
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I agree. But you have to wonder when and if a center of his caliber will come on the market in future for only cash.

I joke about Crosby being a UFA in 2013... but most of these top players never get to unrestricted free agency. The best we have had in recent years is star European wingers (Gaborik, Hossa, Kovalchuk) with two of those having major question marks, and both Gaborik and Kovalchuk having turned down more lucrative deals already from their host clubs compared to what they got in free agency.
I agree and I think Richards is a very good player but we have the prospect pool to trade away some guys and obtain the players we need.

If you would have told me...trade Del Zotto to Dallas for James Neal, I would have done that in a heartbeat or trade Dan Giradi and Horak for Chris Stewart, I would have done that as well.

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04-08-2011, 11:57 AM
  #150
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Our homegrown kids won't make us contenders.
I am willing to give Kreider, Thomas, Werek a chance before I dismiss them.

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