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Habs should sign Wisniewski over Markov

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Old
04-08-2011, 10:43 AM
  #51
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That's also what I think...I think he's going to price himself out of Montreal. With the numbers he's put up this year, he could easily get 5M on the open market. And personally, as much as I like the Wiz, I don't think he's a 5M dman...not with the Habs already having guys like Markov, Subban, Weber on the team.
I don't think he his worth that much either, all depends on which team he is ready to sign for cause top teams in the league will not give him that kind of money IMO. If he wants to sign with the Islanders all over again and take the most money, well enjoy the golfing Wiz!!

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04-08-2011, 10:47 AM
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I don't think he his worth that much either, all depends on which team he is ready to sign for cause top teams in the league will not give him that kind of money IMO. If he wants to sign with the Islanders all over again and take the most money, well enjoy the golfing Wiz!!
Agreed...but if The Wiz is interested in signing in Montreal for a 4-4.5M deal, then I don't see why they couldn't sign him AND Markov. But anything over that and i'd rather look at other options on the UFA market, including Christian Erhoff

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04-08-2011, 10:49 AM
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Agreed...but if The Wiz is interested in signing in Montreal for a 4-4.5M deal, then I don't see why they couldn't sign him AND Markov. But anything over that and i'd rather look at other options on the UFA market, including Christian Erhoff
yup I'm all in for both, max I would give Wiz is 4 million per year, 4 years 16 million not sure if he would be interested since he knows he can probably be in the 5+ range

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04-08-2011, 10:51 AM
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yup I'm all in for both, max I would give Wiz is 4 million per year, 4 years 16 million not sure if he would be interested since he knows he can probably be in the 5+ range
Not sure that would be enough...but I wouldn't mind if they went up to 4.5M and I think that's a very generous offer for the Wiz. Here's hoping he'll sacrifice a few dollars in order to play a role on a more competitive team as opposed to getting more money to play on a bottom feeder.

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04-08-2011, 10:53 AM
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I think its a much safer risk to sign Wiz and Hamrlik for the same cap hit as Markov (assuming) and have Subban as your top 3 D + Gorges and Spacek for your top 5.

Imagine letting Wiz and Hamrlik go, you sign Markov at $6 mil, he gets injured, and youre left with Subban, Gorges, Spacek + 3 question marks.

Whats the smarter thing to do here? Again, this team is spending WAY too much on non-productive forwards as it is. Wiz is at least proving that he can produce, quite a bit too. Even if Markov DOES turn out to be great and goes elsewhere, its not as if Wiz and Subban arent decent replacements for him. THat really the whole point. So its a lot less of a risk to take him over Markov imo.

Too many people are thinking with their heart here. Thats what the Habs SHOULDNT be doing.
I'm actually for signing both Wiz and Markov personally, and Hamrlik could likely be signed with a pretty big paycut if he wants to. For me they're not all mutually exclusive options. And Subban is there to stay either way, has nothing about being a replacement or not, you're allowed to have more than 1 star defenseman on a team! No rules against it, I checked.

That being said, sure it would be a 'safer' road to sign Hamrlik + Wiz and let Markov walk. It's also the kind of 'safe road' that makes team always stay middle of the pack.

I honestly think that with a healthy Markov + Subban, the Habs are a contender within the next 2 years. Will Markov be healthy, I don't know, you can't know. You can't know he won't be either, though.

Would I take, say, a 50% chance of being a top 6 team in the NHL with 50% chance of being a team around 10-15 over a 90% chance of being a team between 8-12? (obviously random % but you get the idea). Hell yes I would.

You want to win a cup, you strive for excellence. It might involve taking some risks, but if you let your high-end talent walk because there's a risk, at best you'll manage to stay a middle of the pack team that will make the playoffs in the bottom seeds and might win a round. But be a true contender, you need high-end talent, and we don't have many of that. Markov is one of the few. You just don't let that walk if you aim for a championship.

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04-08-2011, 10:56 AM
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Not sure that would be enough...but I wouldn't mind if they went up to 4.5M and I think that's a very generous offer for the Wiz. Here's hoping he'll sacrifice a few dollars in order to play a role on a more competitive team as opposed to getting more money to play on a bottom feeder.
same here + from what I've been hearing is that he loves this city and so does his love one so maybe she convinces him to stay

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04-08-2011, 11:01 AM
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same here + from what I've been hearing is that he loves this city and so does his love one so maybe she convinces him to stay
We need to do like 'La Grande Séduction' with his wife. Make her love the place soooo much she won't forgive him if he signs elsewhere.

He'll be like 'well they're offering me right now 4M...' and she'll say 'Cut that to 3.5M! Don't take the chance they'll turn to somebody else!'.

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04-08-2011, 11:02 AM
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this isn't serious, is it?

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04-08-2011, 11:02 AM
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OP came to BC I think and tried a little too much of our #1 export.

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04-08-2011, 11:03 AM
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OP came to BC I think and tried a little too much of our #1 export.
Cinnamon buns?

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04-08-2011, 11:06 AM
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I'm actually for signing both Wiz and Markov personally, and Hamrlik could likely be signed with a pretty big paycut if he wants to. For me they're not all mutually exclusive options. And Subban is there to stay either way, has nothing about being a replacement or not, you're allowed to have more than 1 star defenseman on a team! No rules against it, I checked.

That being said, sure it would be a 'safer' road to sign Hamrlik + Wiz and let Markov walk. It's also the kind of 'safe road' that makes team always stay middle of the pack.

I honestly think that with a healthy Markov + Subban, the Habs are a contender within the next 2 years. Will Markov be healthy, I don't know, you can't know. You can't know he won't be either, though.

Would I take, say, a 50% chance of being a top 6 team in the NHL with 50% chance of being a team around 10-15 over a 90% chance of being a team between 8-12? (obviously random % but you get the idea). Hell yes I would.

You want to win a cup, you strive for excellence. It might involve taking some risks, but if you let your high-end talent walk because there's a risk, at best you'll manage to stay a middle of the pack team that will make the playoffs in the bottom seeds and might win a round. But be a true contender, you need high-end talent, and we don't have many of that. Markov is one of the few. You just don't let that walk if you aim for a championship.
Well said, but if you ask me, the Habs wont be contenders until they land a big name centre/forward. And to me they missed out on it when they were a relatively bad team circa 2000-2005. They shouldve "tanked" and got their: Heatley, Kovalchuk, Nash, Staal, Ovechkin, Crosby, Toews/J.Staal, Stamkos, Tavares, Hall.....

Look at the pattern.... Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago, and soon to be Edmonton. It is THE safest way to build your Cup winning team. Dont count on the Habs to make to the semis again with the team they have.

Thats what Ive been saying for a while now. But that just MY OPINION

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04-08-2011, 11:07 AM
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Wiz has filled his role that PG had acquired him for, but I don't think he will be resigned. As we will have Markov, Gorges (to re-sign), Spacek, Weber, Subban (who will get a good pay increase in (2012-2013) as an rfa. And while looking at this lineup Weber is not to give up on, kids got a lot of upside just have to have patience. This leaves one spot open for a shutdown defenceman to be paired with Gorges. Scott Hannan and Kevin Bieksa come up as shutdown UFA's who could potentially fill that role. Both are upgrades over Gill and Hammer in aspects of mobility and grit, which this team needs. And one of these guys could be acquired for roughly 3 mil/season. Possibly Gill for a 7th? (Plays as a solid figure in the leadership role)

Numbers

Defencemen
Markov-5m
Gorges-3.5m
Spacek-3.833m
Subban-875k (When hes rfa Spacek's contract is up, so we'll have to give him close to 4m)
Weber-875k (rfa but won't get more then 1m)
Bieksa/Hannan-3m
Gill 7th?-1.5m
Total= 18,708,000 (Normally 20m is max you want to spend on D) gives some leway to pay more or less for a few defenceman, and possibly room to add another forward.


Forwards
Gomez-7,357,143
Cammalleri-6,000,000
Gionta-5,000,000
Plekanec-5,000,000
Kostitsyn-3,500,000? (Could score more if he had more pp time, and his passing skills are incredible)
Darche- 1,000,000? (Hes guaranteed to be re-signed after this year)
Moen-1,500,000
Eller-1,270,833
Patches- 2,500,000? (Rfa)
Deharnais-2,000,000?(Rfa)
10 forwards guaranteed to be back= 35,127,976


Total of 53,835,976
Cap should be at 60m+
Which gives the team 6m+ in cap to sign re-sign White if hes in the long-term plans of the team and a solid star forward.
(Numbers could vary based on assumptions)


Last edited by Chris G: 04-08-2011 at 11:35 AM.
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Old
04-08-2011, 11:07 AM
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Markov - Gorges
X - Subban
X - Wizniewski

Where X = Hamrlik/Spacek/Gill/Mara/Sopel/Weber/UFA.. I don't know, I'm not a GM

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04-08-2011, 11:08 AM
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Well said, but if you ask me, the Habs wont be contenders until they land a big name centre/forward. And to me they missed out on it when they were a relatively bad team circa 2000-2005. They shouldve "tanked" and got their: Heatley, Kovalchuk, Nash, Staal, Ovechkin, Crosby, Toews/J.Staal, Stamkos, Tavares, Hall.....

Look at the pattern.... Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago, and soon to be Edmonton. It is THE safest way to build your Cup winning team. Dont count on the Habs to make to the semis again with the team they have.
Thats what Ive been saying for a while now. But that just MY OPINION
Edmonton has been a bad team for years...

While you point to Pittsburgh, Washington and Chicago...what about Edmonton, NY Islanders, L.A. Kings?

Tanking doesn't guarantee you a Stanley Cup...need alot more than that.

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04-08-2011, 11:11 AM
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Well said, but if you ask me, the Habs wont be contenders until they land a big name centre/forward. And to me they missed out on it when they were a relatively bad team circa 2000-2005. They shouldve "tanked" and got their: Heatley, Kovalchuk, Nash, Staal, Ovechkin, Crosby, Toews/J.Staal, Stamkos, Tavares, Hall.....

Look at the pattern.... Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago, and soon to be Edmonton. It is THE safest way to build your Cup winning team. Dont count on the Habs to make to the semis again with the team they have.

Thats what Ive been saying for a while now. But that just MY OPINION
I'm shocked you're even a fan of this franchise. You want to the team to drag the CH through the dirt basically. Tanking is worse than giving it your all and missing the playoffs. It's the absolute most disgusting thing a team can do.

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04-08-2011, 11:18 AM
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I'm actually for signing both Wiz and Markov personally, and Hamrlik could likely be signed with a pretty big paycut if he wants to. For me they're not all mutually exclusive options. And Subban is there to stay either way, has nothing about being a replacement or not, you're allowed to have more than 1 star defenseman on a team! No rules against it, I checked.

That being said, sure it would be a 'safer' road to sign Hamrlik + Wiz and let Markov walk. It's also the kind of 'safe road' that makes team always stay middle of the pack.

I honestly think that with a healthy Markov + Subban, the Habs are a contender within the next 2 years. Will Markov be healthy, I don't know, you can't know. You can't know he won't be either, though.

Would I take, say, a 50% chance of being a top 6 team in the NHL with 50% chance of being a team around 10-15 over a 90% chance of being a team between 8-12? (obviously random % but you get the idea). Hell yes I would.

You want to win a cup, you strive for excellence. It might involve taking some risks, but if you let your high-end talent walk because there's a risk, at best you'll manage to stay a middle of the pack team that will make the playoffs in the bottom seeds and might win a round. But be a true contender, you need high-end talent, and we don't have many of that. Markov is one of the few. You just don't let that walk if you aim for a championship.
+1

I totally agree 100% with this comment. With a paycut to Hamrlik, why not keep them all. I would replace Gill by a grittier and younger stay at home D, keep Mara as a 7th or even a 6th D and I would try to trade Spacek. Not that Spacek isn't good, but 3.8M is a lot of money for that kind of player. But I know, easier said than done. Subban, Wiz and Markov on the same D squad would be awesome!!

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04-08-2011, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by intylerwetrust View Post
Well said, but if you ask me, the Habs wont be contenders until they land a big name centre/forward. And to me they missed out on it when they were a relatively bad team circa 2000-2005. They shouldve "tanked" and got their: Heatley, Kovalchuk, Nash, Staal, Ovechkin, Crosby, Toews/J.Staal, Stamkos, Tavares, Hall.....

Look at the pattern.... Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago, and soon to be Edmonton. It is THE safest way to build your Cup winning team. Dont count on the Habs to make to the semis again with the team they have.

Thats what Ive been saying for a while now. But that just MY OPINION
Sure, tanking is the easiest way to build a Cup winning team. System is a bit broken there imo (you just shouldn't let the same team draft top 3-5 players back to back year, to me it encourages mediocrity WAY too much, when you have a star player you should have to improve).

But realistically Habs won't be tanking for a while, the team is actually too good for that (despite what some people seem to think...). Do I want to tank in 3 years, wait for a star to be drafted in 5 and have a contender in 8? That's a pretty damn pathetic plan to me.

Habs actually have a fairly solid line-up when healthy with many young players pushing at key positions. They're NOT that far from being a contender. And I think Eller actually has the potential to be a solid big center, just give him 1-2 years. MaxPac will likely be one too.

Our strength is undoubtedly in goals and on defense right now, and I think that a team SHOULD build on its strengths much more than trying to even things out everywhere. Build the best defense + goalie in the league (not saying we're there or we'll get there, but aim for it) and weaknesses in front will be much less problematic. You can always score on the PP, ESPECIALLY with Markov, Subban and Wiz in the line-up... And guys like Plekanec, Cammalleri, AK, MaxPac, Gionta will still know how to score goals, even if they don't put as many as they'd like.

I believe personally that top defenses/goalies can win championships even with an average offense. I don't think it works the other way around (see : Flyers, Capitals. But Capitals seem to have understand and are much better defensively this year, and Flyers are much more of a threat since they got Pronger, but we saw last year in the finals how much it cost them to have a weak goalie).

If you dominate at one aspect of the game (be it offense or defense really), you force the other team to play your game. If you're just average everywhere, you're forced to play their game at a disadvantage because you can't really exploit the advantages you have over them.

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04-08-2011, 11:21 AM
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I'm shocked you're even a fan of this franchise. You want to the team to drag the CH through the dirt basically. Tanking is worse than giving it your all and missing the playoffs. It's the absolute most disgusting thing a team can do.
Blame the CBA, its the way it is, buddy.

So you wanna win or finish a borderline playoff team every year? I go with what we've witnessed since the lockout. This cap era means you HAVE to win with your youth, or get very lucky in the draft.

Stick with your integrity all you want, this franchise isnt winning any time soon by spending $5-6 mil on 30 goal scorer UFAs with zero upside.

Chicago have Toews, Kane, Sharp, Keith for 5+ years, WSH have Ovie and Backstrom for 10+ years, PIT have Crosby and Malkin for 5+, EDM will have Hall, Eberle, 2012 1st for X years....... Habs have Gomez, Camm, Gionta for 4+ years for virtually the same cap hit.

Do you not see a problem here????

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04-08-2011, 11:24 AM
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So you wanna win or finish a borderline playoff team every year? I go with what we've witnessed since the lockout. This cap era means you HAVE to win with your youth, or get very lucky in the draft.

Stick with your integrity all you want, this franchise isnt winning any time soon by spending $5-6 mil on 30 goal scorer UFAs with zero upside.

Chicago have Toews and Kane for 5+ years, WSH have Ovie and Backstrom for 10+ years, PIT have Crosby and Malkin for 5+, EDM will have Hall, Eberle, 2012 1st for X years....... Habs have Gomez, Camm, Gionta for 4+ years for virtually the same cap hit.

Do you not see a problem here????
I want my team to have dignity. Do you know what that is?

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04-08-2011, 11:25 AM
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Blame the CBA, its the way it is, buddy.

So you wanna win or finish a borderline playoff team every year? I go with what we've witnessed since the lockout. This cap era means you HAVE to win with your youth, or get very lucky in the draft.

Stick with your integrity all you want, this franchise isnt winning any time soon by spending $5-6 mil on 30 goal scorer UFAs with zero upside.

Chicago have Toews and Kane for 5+ years, WSH have Ovie and Backstrom for 10+ years, PIT have Crosby and Malkin for 5+, EDM will have Hall, Eberle, 2012 1st for X years....... Habs have Gomez, Camm, Gionta for 4+ years for virtually the same cap hit.

Do you not see a problem here????
What about Subban and Price?

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04-08-2011, 11:26 AM
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What about Subban and Price?
Not superstar forwards.

Toews/Kane
Malkin/Crosby/Staal
Datsyuk/Zetts/Franzen

are

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04-08-2011, 11:28 AM
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I want my team to have dignity. Do you know what that is?
Dyou think PIT, CHI, WSH, EDM gave a rat's @ss about "dignity" given the direction their headed.

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04-08-2011, 11:29 AM
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Thats a fact but do you really risk signing a Markov given his injuries? Point wise they may not be all that far off.
Ozymandias eased my own concerns about this not long ago. Last time around Markov's ACL was patched up with tissue. This time he is getting a new one from a donor. He should be as good as new.

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04-08-2011, 11:29 AM
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Dyou think PIT, CHI, WSH, EDM gave a rat's @ss about "dignity" given the direction their headed.
None of those teams have any dignity and never have.

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04-08-2011, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by intylerwetrust View Post
So you wanna win or finish a borderline playoff team every year? I go with what we've witnessed since the lockout. This cap era means you HAVE to win with your youth, or get very lucky in the draft.

Stick with your integrity all you want, this franchise isnt winning any time soon by spending $5-6 mil on 30 goal scorer UFAs with zero upside.

Chicago have Toews and Kane for 5+ years, WSH have Ovie and Backstrom for 10+ years, PIT have Crosby and Malkin for 5+, EDM will have Hall, Eberle, 2012 1st for X years....... Habs have Gomez, Camm, Gionta for 4+ years for virtually the same cap hit.

Do you not see a problem here????
If you look at some of our players right now I haven't been this happy about our youth in like 20 years. Price, Subban, Eller, Pacioretty, Weber, Desharnais and others. We have done very well for sure they are no Ovechkin or Toews but we are on the right track and our scouting is doing a good job, I wouldn't wanna see this team miss the playoffs for a couple of years for a hope of us getting that elite talent, with our luck we would draft the bust!

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