How long have you lifted, because this is a REALLY advanced program?
Layne Norton is very smart, I used him to consult with on nutrition.
I still am not where I want to be, but Layne is quite good, defin not a meathead.
I disagree.
I think 4-5 days is asking to be overtraining.
I also think you want to be doing 8-15 reps, and ideally 10-12.
I'm impressed with your results in the gym though and would like to learn more.
I've lifted for 8 years, but my body hasn't really changed that much, it;s frustrating man. I wanna be jacked but can't afford a PT guru.
I always wish I was a Sidney Crosby who access to a PT.
4-5 days is what every "gym guy" does if they want full results of every muscles ... it's not over training if you do your reps right and the body asks at least 1h of exercise a day anyways.
He said he wants to bulk up ... bulk up = higher weight, lower repetitions (6-8).
The trick is muscle confusion man. Your body gets used to the same exercises in the same order at the same weight. This creates "Plateaus". And when you get to a plateau, it's hard to really burst through it.
Mix up your exercises, mix up your weights, and don't be afraid to superset. Have a training buddy when you bench and do press's. When you can't do one more rep, have your friend spot you and do that extra rep. even if he's the one that lifts it almost up for you, that's the rep that will make a difference
I'll agree on the diet being first thing. But what is it you expect him to accomplish with those exercises that squatting, pressing, deadlifting and bench pressing won't? Throw in some power cleans to add an explosiveness element, if there is some athletic activity, or you could put barbell rows if the looks are the sole concern and not athletic strength.
While I do believe there are different ways to skin a cat, I also think that in most cases simpler is better. I'm just not sure what all those exercises will accomplish that these won't. And how in the heck is he supposed to recover with that kind of schedule?
You have to build all your muscles ... squats are included in legs, pressing are included in chest and shoulders and deadlifts in backs. there are more than one muscle in a shoulder for example. if you want to do your shoulder properly, you need at least 4 exercises to get all of them.
Training is all about being organised.
And like I said in the post before, you need to switch up your exercises for muscle confusion. I understand if you don't agree but this is what some of my body building competitor friends do and so do I and the results are there.
Each muscle are trained thoroughly once a week, it gives him enough time in a week to recuperate that muscle. Sure for the first few weeks he'll be sore but that's part of training.
The thing with being incredibly muscular is that you have to keep it up. Once you quit lifting you look way more flabby than you did before.
Lean is definitely the way to go, IMO, but different strokes for different folks. I also find it funny because I always just built lean, natural muscle. No supplements, nothing like that, and was just as strong as kids who were gigantic. Difference is, they were taking stuff that made them look huge, and held water weight. Big =/= strong necessarily. Some of the leanest kids I have seen have been the strongest.
I had a friend who was maybe 165 at his heaviest, and he would go in the gym and rep 265 lbs on the bench, and people would stand around in amazement that this "scrawny" kid was able to do that. I'll always remember that, and that's sort of what I shoot for when I lift. So unsuspecting, but that's what is awesome, IMO.
Yeah, this is why I love powerlifting so much. I always love the shock on peoples faces after block pulling 500lbs at 165 , or repping out 3 plates on the squat.
Respectfully I disagree.
You need 180-200 mins in the gym, max.
The most important thing (or one of them) is RECOVERY and rest.
4-5 days is too much.
3-4 is better with ideally 48 hours of rest in between.
Many people overtrain with too much volume and not enough rest.
I think if you do 3-4 days, it's just right because you get time to recover.
Also, if you want to bulk, you want hypertrophy, which is 8-15 reps (but 10-12 is best).
So:
3-4 workouts per week
60 mins max
3-4 sets
8-15 (10-12) reps
Go to failure ONLY on last set per exercise
Get a forced rep ONLY ONCE per workout/week
MANY MANY MANY people make the mistake of overtraining, which unless you are advanced, 5 days is.
Overtraining is widely misunderstood.
I isolate every muscle when I train so I know when I get close to over training.
But everything you say there will make him cut and lose weight, the guy wants to gain the weight.
Anyways, I'm not here to argue, to each his own. I've been doing this long enough and saw the results. I didn't ever over train and after every 2 months, i take a week off.
Respectfully I disagree.
You need 180-200 mins in the gym, max.
The most important thing (or one of them) is RECOVERY and rest.
4-5 days is too much.
3-4 is better with ideally 48 hours of rest in between.
Many people overtrain with too much volume and not enough rest.
I think if you do 3-4 days, it's just right because you get time to recover.
Also, if you want to bulk, you want hypertrophy, which is 8-15 reps (but 10-12 is best).
So:
3-4 workouts per week
60 mins max
3-4 sets
8-15 (10-12) reps
Go to failure ONLY on last set per exercise
Get a forced rep ONLY ONCE per workout/week
MANY MANY MANY people make the mistake of overtraining, which unless you are advanced, 5 days is.
I don't know, I don't follow any of what you say. I used to, but found out much of it just doesn't apply to me. I think everyone should find what works for them. For example, I can train up to 10 times a week, or as low as 3, it depends on what I'm going for and what goals I have for the moment. For reps, I might do 8 to 12 on some assistance exercises or when I'm in between training cycles, but I never go to failure because I've found it's the most counterproductive thing you can do. I think I used to mistake straining with going to failure. It's very good to strain, but I don't think it's good at all to go to failure. Sometimes, I'll go 15-25 reps for tendon work or GPP, for dips or whatever. I found doing 100 reps of dips and chin/pull ups 2x a week was amazing for hypertrophy.
For my training days in general, I'll do most of my work with deadlifts, sumo deadlifts, presses OR bench presses and squats OR front squats depending on my injuries or training goals. I'll do lots of sets of each. But If I can do 5 reps at 300lbs for example on the squat, I might do 10 sets of 3 with lots of rest in between sets instead to get more volume in, keep technique good, reduce soreness (from never going to failure) and maintain speed through the sets. I also like to do a lot of core work and strengthning my weak spots like my lower back.
So I could do for one workout something like:
Front squats 7 sets of 5
Reverse hypers (tons of reps)
Russian twists + planks
Or I could do without the core work and add in some deadlifts before the hypers. For recovery, I found finding the proper variation of reps, sets and loads can make you train as much as you want. I like pulling sleds and doing high rep work as well. I do soft tissue work and lots of stretching, and always ice my back and shoulders after a workout. I fill my post-workout shakes with goodies, take omega 3s before sleeping and try to get a few days of 10-12 hour sleep every week. I keep stress low if possible as well, or if its high, I reduce training stress. All of this makes it that I'm never sore. Now, I just need to give myself a break at some point to heal up some injuries from past mistakes.
Who here has a physqiue like mine:
-5 10/165...classic ectomorph without great genese
and who here was able to take this physqiue and get jacked?
If so, please post
A. Before and after pics
B. How long it took for you to get jacked
C. What you did
-Workout
-Diet
I have been lifting for over 8 years and mostly I am 'toned' but NOT jacked and it's frustrating.
I can DL 355X4, but on Bench I still struggle and overall, I am not jacked, and I want to be.
Please help!!!!
It took you 8 years to get to 165lbs? Hmmm. It took me less than a quarter of that. Until I left for Prague for 7 months (it really hurt my gains). I dropped 10lbs there from my horrible lifestyle. I came back 2 months ago and am back up at 165. My bulks were [I used to be insanely skinny at 5'9"] : 110 to 130, 130 to 145, 145 to 155, 155 to 165 (and again the last two months). Generally takes me about 3 months for each, with some breaks in between. I'd be disapointed if in 6 years I'm still 165lbs. You're probably not eating enough. This is what I eat in a week:
3.3 kgs of lean beef
1.25kgs of chicken breast
15 servings of 85gs of whole wheat spag
Lots of peanut butter
1 gallon of milk
48 slices of no fat cheese
14 eggs
4x52gs of dextrose
4x40gs of protein
3 avocados
lots of lettuce
14 onions
4 large cans of italian tomatoes
Some olive oil
70 caps of omega 3s
Some dates, oranges
2-3 fish
I up generally just up the milk and peanut butter to gain and lower the spaghetti to lose. I don't mind gaining some fat either, I get female attention at 10% and 15%, I'm mentioning this because a lot of guys seem to think you'll get less tail (but if you're not getting any right now, it can't drop lower than 0).
For muscles to grow, they need to be worked every 48 hours. If you wait longer than that, then you are sort of slowing how quickly the muscles could grown. Over working them, you begin to minimize gains. It's like trying to eat when you're already full. It does no good.
It also depends how you're doing your workouts. I always did full body or split upper and lower body days. Full body workouts, I did 3 days, half and half I did 4 days.
It should also be noted, you don't gain muscle by lifting. Lifting just breaks down muscle fibers. The repairing of the muscle fibers is what gains size. What aids the muscle fibers in repairing is lean protein, water, and a lot of rest. If you are constantly breaking down the fibers without giving them a chance to repair, you aren't going to see the gains that you would if you would give your muscles a chance to repair and recuperate.
For muscles to grow, they need to be worked every 48 hours. If you wait longer than that, then you are sort of slowing how quickly the muscles could grown. Over working them, you begin to minimize gains. It's like trying to eat when you're already full. It does no good.
It also depends how you're doing your workouts. I always did full body or split upper and lower body days. Full body workouts, I did 3 days, half and half I did 4 days.
It should also be noted, you don't gain muscle by lifting. Lifting just breaks down muscle fibers. The repairing of the muscle fibers is what gains size. What aids the muscle fibers in repairing is lean protein, water, and a lot of rest. If you are constantly breaking down the fibers without giving them a chance to repair, you aren't going to see the gains that you would if you would give your muscles a chance to repair and recuperate.
I just finished my 5th day in a row, it's kinda exhausting! but i went in the morning because i have no work today and will be at a buddies house all night, so early start. I was thinking of maybe instead of 5 days go Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, Monday, etc....every 2nd day. I LOVE going to the gym when it's almost empty, i hate seeing a bunch of guys who are all muscle and i feel intimidated because i'm not close to that. Ohwell, i'll probably get a p90x and not go to the gym.
Whatever works. I just know from years and years of researching what tends to be better. If 5 days is for you...knock it out.
I have better **** to do than go to the gym 5 days a week. The best, hardest, most rewarding workouts I had is I did a MWF full body workout (bench, row, squat, deadlift, then some ab work), and used TR for some stretching/cardio. I got the most defined I have even been, and lost the most amount of weight I have ever lost.
Whatever works. I just know from years and years of researching what tends to be better. If 5 days is for you...knock it out.
I have better **** to do than go to the gym 5 days a week. The best, hardest, most rewarding workouts I had is I did a MWF full body workout (bench, row, squat, deadlift, then some ab work), and used TR for some stretching/cardio. I got the most defined I have even been, and lost the most amount of weight I have ever lost.
Yeah, i'm still on the machines. I've barely touched any dumbells...i need to work on my balancing. I can lift 20 pound dumbells no problem, but my hands are all over the place.
Todays workout was
15 mins on the bike at level 6 (of 9) at 95 RPM
300 (200 pounds) leg press
200 (70 pounds) shoulder press
100 (80 pounds) Latt Pulldown
100 (60 pounds) leg curls (weak hamstrings)
200 (40 pounds) leg extension (very weak triceps)
15 mins on the bike at same level and RPM
What will help with dumbbell work are wrist straps (I don't know if that's the real name). You'd be amazed how much smoother dumbbell work goes with them on. You become more worried about lifting the weight than you are trying to keep the weight in your hand. I highly recommend them. You can get them for like 15 bucks.
There's also a book called the Men's Health Big Book of Exercises. For a beginner...it's a pretty good read. I don't use it much any more but I still keep it around to change up my workouts. Also a worthwhile investment, IMO, and it also goes through some nutrition and has some workouts in there.
Btw, going in the morning is the best, your testosterone is at an all-day high.
Anyways guys, i don't want to start an argument or anything but it doesn't matter what size you are, if you want to build muscles, whether you are 165lbs or 200lbs, it's the same reps or whatever you need to do.
66-29-33 ... don't start doing "Cleans" and power lifts techniques just yet. Get in the rhythm first. But trust me, i'm talking with experience and not just by reading **** here and there ...
If you want more info, inbox me, I don't want to argue here with people,that's not my goal for posting in this thread, it's to help you achieve your goal.
There's more than 1 way to skin a cat, and regardless of what you do, you can probably gain size and strength.
I think 5 days a week for a beginner is not just too much, but it's unnecessary, especially considering that a beginning, if they are doing things right, they will be sore.
I always tried to get the most out of my workouts that I could. Full body workouts use every single muscle in your body, which burns the most calories, which is also the most time efficient. Day of work, day of rest, day of work, day of rest, lather, rinse, repeat. For a beginner...that's what I would recommend because it's cake, it's easy to get into a rhythm, and if you can master the technique of those primary 4 or 5 exercises, that will translate into every other exercise.
Once overall functional strength gets to a certain level, then I would start doing iso exercises, and maybe adding a day or two.
Yeah I agree that starting with power lifts is the way to go. (Re: Cleans -- those are olympic lifts, are very difficult, and do not apply here)
I started on the big lifts: Bench, Squat, Overhead Press, Deadlift.
The above lifts aside from Squats are actually really easy to master. The difficulty doing them are in how they overload your CNS and generally tire you out. As far as squats, you hate to leave them out, but without a coach to help you I'd stick with Leg Presses and Lunges (emphasis on the lunges).
I think if you can go 5 days a week for 1.5 hrs each day you're not working hard enough while you're there. Machines are just way too easy and the gains are way too slow. You should be going 3x per week @ 45 mins. The other days should be spent resting, enjoy outdoor activities, doing cardio, etc.
I loved squats (as much as you can, I suppose), but over time lunges just became less tiresome and just as effective.
And don't do cleans if you're a beginner. Or at least work on the form with just the bar for a while if you must. That's a really easy lift to hurt yourself on.
I think cleans are unnecessary also, unless you're an athlete looking for explosiveness. I'm not going to the NHL. Once I figured that out, I quit power cleaning.
I used to get off on squats. Putting all that weight on your back and squatting it is a rush. My last time doing squats was last April.
This happened:
It's just not worth it for me anymore.
If you don't have the right form, that will happen.
I also agree about the rush. When you let that weight go after a set, you feel like you could take on the world.
EDIT: I've heard of guys lifting too much weight too and that happening. I mean, that's not really a natural position to be in. 100's of lbs on your shoulders pressing down on everything.
Jesus. After competetive sports were done, I swore them off. The only time I'll have a bar on my back is for "good mornings." That's probably one of the only specifically back exercises I do except for pull-ups or bands of some sort. Everything I do for shoulders is with a curl bar, hanging straight-bar, or dumbbells.
Do bands build a good back? Besides pullups I do a lot of variations of the row. Should I cut those out and concentrate on pullups and band work? I think my back is decent but I've always wanted an epic back.
Do bands build a good back? Besides pullups I do a lot of variations of the row. Should I cut those out and concentrate on pullups and band work?
If you're going to the gym I'd stick with your rows. I use bands primarily because I get back from work around 830 and don't feel like going to the gym a lot and don't have much time in the mornings.
I can do row stuff with the bands with my door attachment, but I don't get quite the resistence. Also there's some good ways to target the back with bent-over flys and stuff, but if you have dumbbells you're probably better off with those than bands.
So, no. I wouldn't substitute bands for your rows.
I guess shoulders are just easier to work out, because I've always had good shoulders. I can never get much going on for my back, though, especially upper-back.
Do bands build a good back? Besides pullups I do a lot of variations of the row. Should I cut those out and concentrate on pullups and band work? I think my back is decent but I've always wanted an epic back.
I've done very limited work with bands (they just have never been made available to me). Someone who does P90x will probably know as much there is to know about bands, considering they are part of the plan.
Rows have always been my go to for back. If you can do pullups, that's how you're going to really build up a crazy back. I can't do a pullup to save my life.
, or repping out 3 plates on the squat.
