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Old
04-09-2011, 12:15 AM
  #51
The Black1963
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Originally Posted by Cutty Sarkn3ss View Post
Wow, where have you been? You go on vacation or something?
I've been back for a few weeks now.

No, no vacation. Had some personal issues to iron out. But thanks for asking.

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04-09-2011, 12:15 AM
  #52
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Penner is playing bad, but I can't hate him.

He's playing with a AHL player who can't hold on the puck to save his life and a guy who skates at a snails pace. When he was with Kopitar/Williams, he did great.

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04-09-2011, 12:17 AM
  #53
Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
You blame too much on the system. Heck if it takes new players that long to acclimate to TM's system, why bother trading for anyone by the trade deadline?

Bottomline for Penner is that he's not TM's type of player. Penner's got the skills but he needs the heart of a Clifford to make TM happy.
Because Penner had another year left on his contract. Lombardi knows the Kings had a very small chance to win the cup this year. He was making the trade at the deadline to show the locker room that he believes in them and was increasing the skill level of the team. This move was made for next year.

Am I disappointed with Penner's production? Of course, but I'm not surprised by it.

Murray needs to allow for more possession and pressure in the offensive zone next season. He made statements during training camp that he would open up the offense and the Kings started that way, but when Mitchell got hurt, Murray went back to the old ways. I'm hoping he will stick with it next season.

Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Smyth-Stoll-Brown
Clifford-Schenn-Simmonds
Richardson-Lewis-Parse

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04-09-2011, 12:20 AM
  #54
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Great players are the ones that carry load when the star players go down (Penner hasn't done that)

Good players are the ones that at least elevate their game when a star players gown (Penner hasn't done that)

Average players don't do **** when their keys go down (Penner has repeatedly shown that).

Say what you want but a proven vet would consistently bring his 'A' game, Penner has obviously failed to do that. He's been average at best. He has done absolutely NOTHING to spark up this offense, he's been invisible and with the cost of assets, that's an over payment for a guy who can't step up.

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04-09-2011, 12:23 AM
  #55
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by no means am i saying he's good, but there is somethign wrong with the team when we have richardson - simmers - and clifford as our 1st line.

Where the hell is everyone else? I'm a smyth supporter but dammit, he needs to get back to where he needs to be and show some drive.

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04-09-2011, 12:24 AM
  #56
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Good thread. Can't wait to come back here next season

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04-09-2011, 12:26 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur View Post
by no means am i saying he's good, but there is somethign wrong with the team when we have richardson - simmers - and clifford as our 1st line.

Where the hell is everyone else? I'm a smyth supporter but dammit, he needs to get back to where he needs to be and show some drive.
These are the kinds of players DL drafted and acquired. These are the kinds of players he wanted. The system we play that everyone hates is necessary because these kinds of players are on the team. And it is a successful system that gets the job done effectively, making the playoffs is the goal and it's happened two years in a row.

Smyth doesn't seem to have much more to give. He could also benefit from a center who was able to make plays and gain quick entry to the zone. Too late to find that guy now. The team is what it is. It is good enough to go a long way in the playoffs when everyone's healthy, but they will be playing this style for a while. Even when Murray's gone, a different coach isn't going to make these guys into something they aren't. They are what they are.

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04-09-2011, 12:31 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Shellz View Post
Good thread. Can't wait to come back here next season
OK, see ya next season.

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04-09-2011, 12:33 AM
  #59
Cutty Sarkn3ss*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
I've been back for a few weeks now.

No, no vacation. Had some personal issues to iron out. But thanks for asking.
Well, glad you got it all taken care of, looking forward to trolling your posts

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04-09-2011, 12:35 AM
  #60
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Modin and Halpern were some odd acquisitions at first at the deadline but they did show up, I think everyone can agree on that one. We'll just have to wait n see if Penner will bring it. Keep your expectations low going into the playoffs.

EDIT: People should also remember that in the playoffs there are low-scoring games... Could this be preparation for it? Keeping the hottest line in the NHL right now pointless tonight is a decent job.... Just imagine how hungry all those lines were tonight to try to clinch a spot.. Now that 2nd line on the other hand.... Were toast.. lol

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04-09-2011, 12:36 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Because Penner had another year left on his contract. Lombardi knows the Kings had a very small chance to win the cup this year. He was making the trade at the deadline to show the locker room that he believes in them and was increasing the skill level of the team. This move was made for next year.

Am I disappointed with Penner's production? Of course, but I'm not surprised by it.

Murray needs to allow for more possession and pressure in the offensive zone next season. He made statements during training camp that he would open up the offense and the Kings started that way, but when Mitchell got hurt, Murray went back to the old ways. I'm hoping he will stick with it next season.

Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Smyth-Stoll-Brown
Clifford-Schenn-Simmonds
Richardson-Lewis-Parse
You don't trade for a player at the deadline thinking he'll be a great help for next year's playoffs but not this year. All Penner has to do is play hard like he did last game against the yotes. He needs to bring that kind of effort every night.

Besides, why would DL dishout more than 3 mil for a one year of Poni if your theory holds true, which it clearly doesn't.

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04-09-2011, 12:41 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingsation8 View Post
Modin and Halpern were some odd acquisitions at first at the deadline but they did show up, I think everyone can agree on that one. We'll just have to wait n see if Penner will bring it. Keep your expectations low going into the playoffs.

EDIT: People should also remember that in the playoffs there are low-scoring games... Could this be preparation for it? Keeping the hottest line in the NHL right now pointless tonight is a decent job.... Just imagine how hungry all those lines were tonight to try to clinch a spot.. Now that 2nd line on the other hand.... Were toast.. lol
Atleast Halpern and Modin gave us indications on how they were going to perform.

Halpern = a waste but everyone here defended him like they're doing with Penner.

Modin = at least he did something.

As for Penner, I would put him with Halpern at this point.

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Old
04-09-2011, 12:41 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Cutty Sarkn3ss View Post
Well, glad you got it all taken care of, looking forward to trolling your posts
Do I smell an infraction forthcoming?

Hmmm, maybe I should start a thread...

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04-09-2011, 01:01 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
You don't trade for a player at the deadline thinking he'll be a great help for next year's playoffs but not this year. All Penner has to do is play hard like he did last game against the yotes. He needs to bring that kind of effort every night.

Besides, why would DL dishout more than 3 mil for a one year of Poni if your theory holds true, which it clearly doesn't.
After Kovalchuk, Lombardi went to Frolov to try and get him back for the third line. Frolov said "no thanks" and signed with NY. Lombardi needed someone for the third line and had plenty of cap space this season and signed Poni to a one year deal. Doesn't hurt the Kings at all to hope for the best. Lombardi was hoping for another 20 goal scorer and it didn't happen, time to move on.

Poni is overpaid, but he's not a liability in Murray's style of 2-1 wins. Kings have plenty of cap space, so the money doesn't hurt anyone but AEG.

Of course the goal is to win the cup every year, but Lombardi is also realistic and is always planning for the future. Poni was a roll of the dice that didn't work out. No big loss. Penner is being counted on to put the Kings in a better position this season and next. Not working out yet this season, but he can still turn it around next year.

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04-09-2011, 01:15 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
After Kovalchuk, Lombardi went to Frolov to try and get him back for the third line. Frolov said "no thanks" and signed with NY. Lombardi needed someone for the third line and had plenty of cap space this season and signed Poni to a one year deal. Doesn't hurt the Kings at all to hope for the best. Lombardi was hoping for another 20 goal scorer and it didn't happen, time to move on.

Poni is overpaid, but he's not a liability in Murray's style of 2-1 wins. Kings have plenty of cap space, so the money doesn't hurt anyone but AEG.

Of course the goal is to win the cup every year, but Lombardi is also realistic and is always planning for the future. Poni was a roll of the dice that didn't work out. No big loss. Penner is being counted on to put the Kings in a better position this season and next. Not working out yet this season, but he can still turn it around next year.
It has nothing to do with the system. If it did, guys like Simmonds and Clifford would have struggled in their first year under TM but they didn't. These guys succeeded because they play their ***** off. And that is what Penner needs to do.

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04-09-2011, 08:46 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Too much Penner hate. It took Kopitar almost a year to get Murray's crappy system down and he has way more skill than Penner.

How much did Kopitar produce with King as his LW? How much did Kopitar produce with Penner as his LW?

I'm still hoping that Murray will see the light this off season and figure out that possession is the key to a solid two-way game. The Kings have the defense and goaltending to play an up tempo style.

I just hope Schenn can pick up the system quickly enough to replace Handzus and add some creativity.
Yeah Murray is definitely the reason Penner isn't skating, isn't shooting, can't stickhandle, and can't pass.

TM's "system" is pretty simple. Penner said himself that it was basically the same as what he came from. There's not much to learn.

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04-09-2011, 09:07 AM
  #67
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He's been playing pretty well the past few games. He's been skating hard and last night he forced his way to the middle with the puck a couple times, but then did nothing with the chances he created, which was frustrating. Lack of confidence right now maybe?

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04-09-2011, 09:11 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
You don't trade for a player at the deadline thinking he'll be a great help for next year's playoffs but not this year. All Penner has to do is play hard like he did last game against the yotes. He needs to bring that kind of effort every night.

Besides, why would DL dishout more than 3 mil for a one year of Poni if your theory holds true, which it clearly doesn't.
yea, i have missed your tounge too

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04-09-2011, 11:17 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Because Penner had another year left on his contract. Lombardi knows the Kings had a very small chance to win the cup this year. He was making the trade at the deadline to show the locker room that he believes in them and was increasing the skill level of the team. This move was made for next year.

Am I disappointed with Penner's production? Of course, but I'm not surprised by it.

Murray needs to allow for more possession and pressure in the offensive zone next season. He made statements during training camp that he would open up the offense and the Kings started that way, but when Mitchell got hurt, Murray went back to the old ways. I'm hoping he will stick with it next season.

Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Smyth-Stoll-Brown
Clifford-Schenn-Simmonds
Richardson-Lewis-Parse

I really want to have Loktionov AND Schenn in the Lineup.
But for that Murray has to be gone.
I don't want Loktionov or Schenn have anything to do with Murray.
There is enough damage done.
I even don't want Stoll have anything to do with offense.
Actually i don't see some space here for him. Just winning a faceoff here and there isn';t enough.
We need complete player.
So i would trade Stoll for a late 1st rounder this trade and use our 2nd rounder to trade for Kostopulous. And yes, i'm serious with that.
He would be the missing piece of our monster 4th line.
Of course we have to buy out Smyth or send him to the AHL

than i would roll 3 scoring lines and 1 true stopper line

Parse - Kopitar - Williams
Penner - Richardson - Brown
Moller - Loktionov - Simmonds
Clifford - Lewis - Kostopolous

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04-09-2011, 11:28 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Yeah Murray is definitely the reason Penner isn't skating, isn't shooting, can't stickhandle, and can't pass.

TM's "system" is pretty simple. Penner said himself that it was basically the same as what he came from. There's not much to learn.
This is exactly the problem.
We are always in a backward motion. Doing the little things right is not enough for constant success. We are not an amateur team. You can't just outwork the opponent you have to outsmart them too.
And this is the big issue.
Murray has no clue about creative and smart offense.
He just orders 5 gusy to ball up in frony of the own net or place 3 guys at the blue line and let them shoot into the croewd of the opponents net.
This is clearly too easy to defend. Every AHL team would be able to hold us under
2 goals per game.

I could always puke if i have to watch professional hockey player enter the o-zone at the board and throw the puck into goal direction or if the way is blocked turn around and pass the puck to the defender whi is already covered by the forechecker.

Alone the talent level of the players prevents us from being a bottom feeder
and i'm tired of this.
I think i don't have to mention the PP. Sometimes i really have the urge to throw soemthing to the wall when you see the clear passing lane for a great one timer and the player turns and pass to the blueliner who shoots it into the protection netting.


Just watch the real power hosue teams playing offense.
Everyone follows a plan and uses well trained offense moves. The players don't even have to look. They know exactly if i'm here there must be player X in the back of the defender. The Sedins or Phillys or the Red Wings offense is a great example for that.

I'm tired of one way coaches. We had run and gun systems for a decade, now we have a defense only sytem.
I WANT A 2 WAY GAME. That can't be so difficult.

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04-09-2011, 12:11 PM
  #71
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Good news...Penner will be in a contract year.

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04-09-2011, 12:41 PM
  #72
Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Yeah Murray is definitely the reason Penner isn't skating, isn't shooting, can't stickhandle, and can't pass.

TM's "system" is pretty simple. Penner said himself that it was basically the same as what he came from. There's not much to learn.
What's Penner going to say? "Wow, this system is really bad, they don't allow for any offensive creation. It is all about dumping and praying for deflections and rebounds."

Murray has already said that Penner was having trouble adapting to the extremely structured system. The Kings have to play perfect to squeak out 2-1 and 3-2 shootout wins.

As soon as Williams and Kopitar went down for the season, Murray should have opened up the offense. The Kings are no longer able to win the 2-1 style games because Kopitar was the one that was counted on the get that 2nd goal every game. He's the only player that can get a point per game while playing the structured system. Once they are gone, the team doesn't generate enough scoring chances to get that 2nd goal. With Kopitar/Williams, the Kings could win those 2-1 games over 60% of the time and without them, they will be lucky to win 40% of those types of games.

I would rather see the team losing 4-3 than 2-1. At least in the 4-3 losses you are giving your team a better chance of winning since your goalies and defense are usually better than the other team and they may be able to stop that 3rd or 4th goal. But asking the defense and goalie to give up only 1 goal and having almost zero margin for error, is not conducive to winning.

Does anyone really see this style of offense being able to score 3 goals without the shootout? I don't see it without Kopitar and Williams.

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Old
04-09-2011, 04:57 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by ShattStar03 View Post
Great players are the ones that carry load when the star players go down
Oh I just thought the great ones were the one that got paid more. Players need to be incentivized to be "great" - just like bankers.


Last edited by winning: 04-09-2011 at 05:03 PM.
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