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Old
03-27-2011, 05:50 PM
  #226
The Saw Is the Law
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ES View Post
Jani Lajunen? Or did you not include him because he has contract already?
Oh forgot him. He think he should be just before Rajala

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChadS View Post
IMO, Vatanen should be ahead of Salomäki and Donskoi, possibly even Pulkkinen as well. Definitely ahead of Ma.Granlund too.
Knew that I will receive critic about putting Vatanen so low. I'm not high on this kid and I tell why:

Many people have said Mikael Granlund is too small for NHL. That's total bull****. There are many 5'10 highly skilled TOP line players in NHL. Danny Briere, Patrick Kane, Ryan Callahan, Saku Koivu. Then there are even smaller forwards than Granlund like Michael Cammalleri, Derek Roy, Tyler Ennis, Martin St. Louis, Mats Zuccarello, Brian Gionta, Nahan Gerbe. You know Granlund can easily join this group. He has serious skill set and 'killing mentality'.

Ok, now it comes to Vatanen. He is even smaller than Gralund and Vatanen is D-man. Forwards doesn't need the size but D-men really need size. Vatanen is about 5'9 you know any 5'9 D-men in NHL? Lets check NHL.com how many have played in this season. Full list is here:

Marc-Andre Bergeron 18 games played, listed 5'9 in nhl.com but eliteprospects say 5'10
Brett Lebda 41games played, listed 5'10 in eliteprospects
Lee Sweatt 3games played
Mike Weaver 76games played
Jared Spurgeon 46games played
Francis Bouillon 44games played, listed as 5'8!

So in NHL there are only 6 D-men same size as Vatanen. Only one of them is smaller than Vatanen. Now a bell is ringing in my head. 5'9 D-men just doesn't make it to the NHL. All of those 6 are close to 200lbs, Vatanen is only 165lbs. Vatanen could be dominant in Europe right now but he is not even close to NHL. It's the physics. Vatanen will be down on ice every time there is corner battle, every time he gets hit down goes Vatanen. You can't play good hockey when your butt touches the ice in every shift.

You know his Coast-To-Coast thing. When he stars that, he doesn't know when to stop. Failing leads to ugly turnover and odd man rush to own zone. Sometimes like 4on4 Vatanen starts to attack like forward, which is good thing but problem is he doesn't know when to step back to D position, sometimes it's too late. In the NHL his tricks doesn't work like in Europe.

Anyways hope dies last. There are 13 D-men 5'10. Including some elite defenders like Timonen or Rafalski. You know Kime and Rafa had really long way to the NHL. Timonen played five years in Europe after draft. Rafalski stepped to NHL at the age of 26. If Vatanen improves his poke check and weight he could be beast with his speed. But it's not happening today. Definitely Vatanen have skills. The big question is how he can breed those skills to fit the NHL.

Now I shall go to sleep (but i'll watch Vancouver-Columbus third period... )

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03-28-2011, 12:34 AM
  #227
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Just for laughs, 90-94 born NHL prospects:
1. RW - Joel Armia (-93)
2. CE - Mikael Granlund (-92)
3. D - Rasmus Ristolainen (-94)
4. GK - Christopher Gibson (-92)
5. D - Olli Määttä (-94)
6. GK - Samu Perhonen (-93)
7. RW - Teemu Pulkkinen (-92)
8. C/W - Miikka Salomäki (-93)
9. GK - Joni Ortio (-91)
10. LW - Joonas Donskoi (-92)
11. D - Sami Vatanen (-91)
12. C/W - Kalle Torniainen (-94)
13. LW - Teemu Hartikainen (-90)
14. D - Jani Hakanpää (-92)
15. GK - Sami Aittokallio (-92)

- I've been watching some QMJHL games from Telus and I have to say that Gibson is looking really good. Archived games are really cheap, so if you are interested, give it a try.

- I'm probably putting too much emphasis on WJC's, but it seems that it's Rafalski or nothing for Vatanen, and Rafalski is still far out of reach. His offensive game alone requires quite a lot of adapting for smaller ice surface. Vatanen is short, but in reality Rafalski isn't any taller. What worries me is that Vatanen doesn't seem to be putting on any weight (muscle), he's still pretty much the same skinny boy that he was last year.

- I don't think that Haula is much of a NHL prospect, just not enough goal scoring ability for a player that's not really a grinder.

- I'm not a huge fan of Jokipakka, a tad too soft for my taste and the offensive game as a whole just isn't there yet. Better than the drafted guys like Rissanen and Kivistö for sure, but not much is required for that.

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03-28-2011, 01:27 AM
  #228
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How's Salomäki a better prospect then?
He's a slowish grinder, power and weight as his best assets. Those have much harder times making it in the NHL than speedy, small defenceman.

I'd actually put them like this:

1. Sami Vatanen
2. (a/b) Mikael Granlund
2. (a/b) Joel Armia
4. The Goalies
5. Teemu Pulkkinen
6. -------------> Who cares about the rest...

BTW it's by potential



Edit: Great rankings Tormentor! Much appreciated


Last edited by Latex*: 03-28-2011 at 01:33 AM.
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Old
03-28-2011, 04:39 AM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormentor View Post
Just for laughs, 90-94 born NHL prospects:
1. RW - Joel Armia (-93)
2. CE - Mikael Granlund (-92)
3. D - Rasmus Ristolainen (-94)
4. GK - Christopher Gibson (-92)
5. D - Olli Määttä (-94)
6. GK - Samu Perhonen (-93)
7. RW - Teemu Pulkkinen (-92)
8. C/W - Miikka Salomäki (-93)
9. GK - Joni Ortio (-91)
10. LW - Joonas Donskoi (-92)
11. D - Sami Vatanen (-91)
12. C/W - Kalle Torniainen (-94)
13. LW - Teemu Hartikainen (-90)
14. D - Jani Hakanpää (-92)
15. GK - Sami Aittokallio (-92)
Interesting that you chose Ristolainen ahead Määttä. I dont know much about Ristolainen so I can't say a word, but I've always thought that Määttä is the most promising 94-born dman. He's versatile and already played in the WJC. Määttä also played games in Mestis. I've understand that Ristolainen got some offensive zone skill and he's got the size, but what kind of player he's in the defensive zone?

Do you see that Ville Pokka is even near of them? You did choose Hakanpää in that list but no Pokka? Is there some heavy reasons why you dont think he's not going to be as good as these other guys in the list?

Thanks.

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Old
03-28-2011, 09:39 AM
  #230
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1. CE Mikael Granlund (92)
Best player overall. Can play at all situations, smartest, very good work ethic and he can play gritty. He is small, and hes missing NHL-speed.

2. RW Joel Armia (93)
Great hands, great size, amazing shot. Very good offensive player. Perimeter player, not good skating.

3. D Olli Määttä (94)
Very mature player for his age. Rarely makes mistakes, calm and trustworthy. The difference of his bad game and good game isn't big. He is very consistent. Big questionmark his is high end talent. Is his offensive production limited? Will he ever end up as a elite defenseman?

4. D Sami Vatanen (91)
Great speed, great positioning, good shot and good work ethic. Very small and not so strong player. Makes bad decisions in defensive zone and it can cost goal against. If he was bigger about 6'1+ he would be clearly our number 1 nhl prospect.

5. RW Teemu Pulkkinen (92)
Best player offensively, Great shot, best PP player. He is pure offensive player. He doesen't have good size and he isn't fast. Useless at own zone.

Players who i have seen. I think ristolainen and some of our goalie prospects would make it top 5.

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Old
03-28-2011, 09:54 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Latexi84 View Post
How's Salomäki a better prospect then?
He's a slowish grinder, power and weight as his best assets. Those have much harder times making it in the NHL than speedy, small defenceman.
It’s a good and valid question. I can’t say that Salomäki is a better prospect than Vatanen while comparing the high end potential of these two players, it’s simply not true. However Salomäki is a kind of player that NHL teams fill their lower lines with, so it might be much easier for him to find a regular spot on a NHL roster. I admit that skating speed is one of the issues that still require some work, but overall he’s one helluva player for his age. His physical play, determination, grit, consistency and maturity are all top-notch. He's not afraid of leaving his comfort zone and has shown willingness to work on his weaknesses. You don’t have to raise too many questions about him. In some ways he’s a similar player with Leo Komarov, giving up just isn’t an option.

The Saw Is the Law already brought out the fact that smallish defensemen are a rare breed in NHL and it can take years for them to prove their value. Also it’s extremely rare to see two smallish defensemen on a same NHL team. There aren’t too many jobs for these guys. I might be overreacting based on the WJC’s, but contrary to my old belief, I’m starting to think that his offensive game won’t translate to NA rink without notable growing pains. If he’s not contributing offensively from the get-go, will Anaheim have the patience to withstand the defensive shortcomings while things hopefully improve over time?

Anaheim has an interesting situation with their young defensemen; Cam Fowler, Luca Sbisa and Justin Schultz are about the same age as Vatanen. Similarly to Vatanen they are good skaters and have notable puck-moving potential, the difference is that these guys have NHL size. Unless there are some trades, the competition will be really tough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankTheTank View Post
Interesting that you chose Ristolainen ahead Määttä. I dont know much about Ristolainen so I can't say a word, but I've always thought that Määttä is the most promising 94-born dman. He's versatile and already played in the WJC. Määttä also played games in Mestis. I've understand that Ristolainen got some offensive zone skill and he's got the size, but what kind of player he's in the defensive zone?
Don’t pay too much attention to the fact that I had Ristolainen ahead of Määttä, on a different day it might’ve been the other way around. Ristolainen has some ‘wow factor’ in his game. On a good day you can see offensive rushes, heavy shots from the point and bone crushing hits, an entertaining player similarly to Jere Karalahti during his prime.

From what I’ve seen Määttä seems to be more reliable defensively, partly because Ristolainen is more offensively-oriented, but also because Määttä reads the game better in the defensive zone. Ristolainen requires more guidance in this area.

Without the early season injury Ristolainen might be a different player by now and could have seen more action in SM-liiga. It’s possible that you’ll see a big improvement in Ristolainen’s game for next season. Nevertheless it’ll be interesting to see how much ice time these kids will get in SM-liiga next season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankTheTank View Post
Do you see that Ville Pokka is even near of them? You did choose Hakanpää in that list but no Pokka? Is there some heavy reasons why you dont think he's not going to be as good as these other guys in the list?
There’s a lot to like in Pokka, but his skating speed and mobility are clearly his biggest weaknesses, so he’s bit of a wild card. It’ll be a big challenge for him to improve in this area. We have to wait and see what happens.

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03-28-2011, 10:56 AM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormentor View Post
It’s a good and valid question. I can’t say that Salomäki is a better prospect than Vatanen while comparing the high end potential of these two players, it’s simply not true. However Salomäki is a kind of player that NHL teams fill their lower lines with, so it might be much easier for him to find a regular spot on a NHL roster. I admit that skating speed is one of the issues that still require some work, but overall he’s one helluva player for his age. His physical play, determination, grit, consistency and maturity are all top-notch. He's not afraid of leaving his comfort zone and has shown willingness to work on his weaknesses. You don’t have to raise too many questions about him. In some ways he’s a similar player with Leo Komarov, giving up just isn’t an option.
How come you have Teemu "Härski" Hartikainen so low on the list. Exspecially when salomäki, who's so much smaller is so high.
I was very impressed by Salomäki in the WJC aswell, but i think alot of his great play was due to his weight and muscles which he dominated against KIDS. I just don't see what does he have compared to Härski who's a lot bigger aswell.

And don't get me wrong Tormentor, i appreciate your work and you know better than me, but i'm just trying to get info on these kids and expressing my own opinions.

Keep up the good work!

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03-28-2011, 02:42 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latexi84 View Post
How come you have Teemu "Härski" Hartikainen so low on the list. Exspecially when salomäki, who's so much smaller is so high.
I was very impressed by Salomäki in the WJC aswell, but i think alot of his great play was due to his weight and muscles which he dominated against KIDS. I just don't see what does he have compared to Härski who's a lot bigger aswell.
First off, I have to admit that I’m not a big fan of Hartikainen and that I haven’t seen his first NHL games. I see Salomäki having a better understanding of the game and a slightly higher skill set. Salomäki is also more versatile (centre forward/winger) and could develop into a very good two-way player that’s used in critical situations and during short-handed play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Latexi84 View Post
And don't get me wrong Tormentor, i appreciate your work and you know better than me, but i'm just trying to get info on these kids and expressing my own opinions.
I probably follow junior hockey slightly more than most, but it doesn’t mean that I know better or that I’m right. I’ve been wrong on so many occasions that it’s not even funny. Debating is good for passing the time, and it helps in getting new perspectives and info from other posters.

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03-28-2011, 04:33 PM
  #234
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I got Salomäki as fourth best forward in my rankings previous page. I like everything what I've seen.

I had compared him to Mike Richards. I see many same things in their play. First of all Salomäki will not be next Mike Richards, more likely Richards-lite player. I have no clue about leadership things of Salomäki but both are smallish centers, good two-way game, good shot, pass, hard hits and grit. Difference is that Salomäki lacks a bit of Richards in every single category. So his upside could be like 2nd line version of Richards.

I may sound weird but in my opinion the most underrated thing in hockey is the 'killing mentality'. I'm not talking about cheapshots or Matt Cooke. It's more like 'kill or be killed' you cant give anything for free to opponent. You must play with the edge all the time every shift. Don't let the momentum change. I see that Richards and Salomäki have the same mentality. Guys like Toni Rajala, Jesse Niinimäki or Lauri Tukonen doesn't have any of that mentality. They got skills but will lose and keep losing. They play loosy with smile on face. Will cry if someone just hurted. They are not current NHL players and they will not be NHL players. Look at Ovechkin he is not smiling when the game clock is ticking, he is so ****ing concentrated on his job. After the red light and goal song everything changes.

Mikael Granlund and Miikka Salomäki really have that mentality and they will be NHL players.

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03-28-2011, 04:52 PM
  #235
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imo
top 4 forward prospects are(not in order):
Mikael Granlund
Joel Armia
Joonas Donskoi
Teemu Pulkkinen

Donskoi seems to be underrated in here. He protects the puck well and he is also best skater of those forwards. Donskoi got some leadership skills too.

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04-09-2011, 01:34 AM
  #236
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Sasha Barkov scored a hattrick in a blowout.
(U17)
Finland - Sweden
8-0

http://79.125.21.88/statistics/hocke...81&SEASON=2011

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04-09-2011, 07:56 AM
  #237
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Heres official SM-Liiga video of future stars of Finland. Check it out!



Available in HD

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Old
04-12-2011, 05:18 AM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormentor View Post
First off, I have to admit that I’m not a big fan of Hartikainen and that I haven’t seen his first NHL games. I see Salomäki having a better understanding of the game and a slightly higher skill set. Salomäki is also more versatile (centre forward/winger) and could develop into a very good two-way player that’s used in critical situations and during short-handed play.
How about now after his 12 game addition in the NHL? Any expanded thoughts on Hartikainen? If you're asking Oiler fans who watch him, they're really happy with his play. I can't comment on the other Finnish prospects, but I thought some Finnish folk might be happy to see one of their own doing well as a very young kid.

I guess keep in mind we might like him so much because he offers skills and talents, like size and grit and power around the net, that aren't common on our team.

First NHL goal if you hadn't seen it.

[


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04-12-2011, 11:12 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by President Van Buren View Post
How about now after his 12 game addition in the NHL? Any expanded thoughts on Hartikainen?
Watched the game against Vancouver a week ago and Hartikainen didn’t look out of place. He showed good physical presence, even got some offence going and it seems that he has adapted well to the North American game. Definitely an improvement over the pre-season game that I saw where he looked a tad slow and somewhat lost.

After seeing that he might actually stick to NHL, I’d rank him higher on that list. Still, it’ll be interesting to see what happens when Oilers move on from the rebuild mode and possibly start looking for some UFA signings. The competition for roster spots and ice time should get a lot tougher in future.

I have to say that it would be nice to see one of these bigger Finnish forwards making it for a change, because there have been plenty of guys who have more or less failed while trying. Jani Rita, Tuomas Pihlman, Masi Marjamäki, Lauri Tukonen, Petteri Nokelainen, Oskar Osala, Mikko Lehtonen to name some from the top of my head. It’s not like Hartikainen was the most promising or skilled from these guys, but I guess it often comes down to how hard you work and just being at the right place at the right time.

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04-13-2011, 07:50 AM
  #240
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I watched three Oilers' games were Hartikainen was playing and he was doing great. Good goalie screening on PP, battles hard in corners, decent shot. He was slow but I'm not worried because Oilers skating coach said he have million dollar plan to make Hartikainen regular NHL'er.

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04-13-2011, 11:31 AM
  #241
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Is it time to start the Teuvo Teräväinen hype?

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04-13-2011, 01:16 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Granlund2Pulkkinen View Post
Is it time to start the Teuvo Teräväinen hype?
Probably better to wait and see how he grows and develops as a player. Skill and instincts are there, but playing in the NHL requires so much more, especially from a smaller player like Teräväinen.

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04-14-2011, 11:39 AM
  #243
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Hartikainen is gonna be ideal 3rd liner for many, many years. Edmonton is very lucky to have him. Salomäki is kind of like Hartikainen. Doesnt stand out, but is very good all-around player and already very mature physically. IMO 2nd-3rd round pick and almost a guaranteed NHL´er in 3-4 years. A very safe pick.

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04-14-2011, 09:01 PM
  #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattihp View Post
Sasha Barkov scored a hattrick in a blowout.
(U17)
Finland - Sweden
8-0

http://79.125.21.88/statistics/hocke...81&SEASON=2011
Is his real name Aleksander?

this guy?

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=50044

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04-15-2011, 04:36 AM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Granlund2Pulkkinen View Post
Is his real name Aleksander?

this guy?

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=50044
Yep.

One of top future prospects of Finland.

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04-15-2011, 06:58 AM
  #246
The Saw Is the Law
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granlund2Pulkkinen View Post
Is his real name Aleksander?

this guy?

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=50044
You're right

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04-15-2011, 07:30 AM
  #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granlund2Pulkkinen View Post
Is his real name Aleksander?

this guy?

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=50044
Sasha is the nickname used for people called Alex(ks)ander/Alex(ks)andra pretty much everywhere in the Slavic world AFAIK, so as Barkov´s dad is originally from Russia it makes sense to call him Sasha. I doubt anyone in Russia refers to Ovechkin as Alex rather than Sasha.

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04-22-2011, 02:21 AM
  #248
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What happened to Tommi Kivistö?

I remember that Kivistö was a pretty highly-ranked defenseman in Finland before he moved to North America to play with Red Deer Rebels in the WHL. I also believe that he was ranked high by ISS for 2009 NHL Entry Draft. But what happened to him in the season? I saw him that year two times in International games and he didn´t show for me enough to get drafted in the first three rounds of the draft. He was finally drafted by Carolina in the 7th round (#208 overall).

Personally, I´m not really fan of him. However, he showed some promise before this season and was pretty good last season in the playoff. I have seen him four or five times live in the past two years (I´m not exactly sure) and on tv more than 10 times. He doesn´t really show enough offensive skills, and his hockey sense is limited in my opinion. Shot is ok. I think undrafted Jyrki Jokipakka (who was also born in 1991) is the better player of the two.

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Old
06-21-2011, 06:50 PM
  #249
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Just looking back on this as I put the finishing touches on this year's Top Ten draft preview. This was actually the group I saw the most of while I was in Vierumaki.

It's interesting that Hovinen has re-emerged as a prospect (until the signing of Bryzgalov) while the rest of the goalies are still anything but sure things. And Helenius was the last first round pick prior to Granlund last year.

What was it about Heikkinen's game that caused him to miss by so much? When I saw him playing A juniors as a 16-year old he did not look out of place and seemed to play with a lot of poise. From what I see he's still playing in Mestis.

Of the forwards there was a big split between Nyholm and Kemppainen (actually I was probably in the minority with regards to the latter). It's interesting to see that Puustinen is getting another shot in North America.

Very interesting in looking back. Will take a look to see other 1988's who have emerged since then.



Quote:
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You did well Nothing personal. And I have not seen all these boys play, so some comments are just stats wise. Pretty sure I went way off in some cases. These smilies on a second thinking...

1988, not such as good than 87's, but still pretty good

Goalies
Niko Hovinen (Jokerit)
Riku Helenius (Ilves)
Atte Engren (Lukko)
Mikko Tolvanen (HPK) ...

Defensemens
Eetu Heikkinen (Ässät)
Joonas Lehtivuori (Ilves)

Forwards
Robert Nyholm (HIFK)
Joonas Kemppainen (Ässät) ...
Jan-Mikael Juutilainen (Jokerit)
Max Wärn (HIFK)
Juuso Puustinen (KalPa)
Juhani Jasu (Lukko)
Jani Savolainen (KalPa)
Juuso Antonen (Ilves)
Jan-Mikael Järvinen (Ilves)
.......

1989 the weakest since the 85's
Harri Säteri (Tappara)
Tomi Karhunen (Kärpät)

Defensemens
Jesse Jyrkkiö (Ässät)
Joni Liljeblad (Kärpät)

Forwards
Niclas Lucenius (Tappara)
Sami Lähteenmäki (HPK)
Antti Roppo (Ilves)

.............

Lehterä and his poor skating skills not thrilled ....
We all fell for that.

Tony Piscotta is offline  
Old
06-21-2011, 06:53 PM
  #250
Tony Piscotta
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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He impressed the Carolina organization enough to earn a three-year entry-level contract - though it appears likely he will spend at least one more year with Jokerit.

http://hurricanes.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=564428


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyfan789 View Post
I remember that Kivistö was a pretty highly-ranked defenseman in Finland before he moved to North America to play with Red Deer Rebels in the WHL. I also believe that he was ranked high by ISS for 2009 NHL Entry Draft. But what happened to him in the season? I saw him that year two times in International games and he didn´t show for me enough to get drafted in the first three rounds of the draft. He was finally drafted by Carolina in the 7th round (#208 overall).

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