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ECHL CHL merger?

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Old
03-11-2011, 01:56 PM
  #1
Johnny8242
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ECHL CHL merger?

Do you think this would ever happen? I dont know if there would be advantages of a bigger league. In this day and age it looks like there may not be room for two AA leagues.

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03-11-2011, 02:33 PM
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Depending on Victoria's move I wonder what the rest of the West will do in the ECHL.

If they move your down to 36 AA teams. If people can wait a couple more years you'll eventually hit that 30 mark. Isn't that amazing though? Back in 2000 you had THREE AA Leagues(and I would guess around 60 teams) and you had TWO AAA leagues.

I hear some AHL fans(not on here) would like 2 leagues and think the AHL is too crowded.

I think one day it may happen(a merger) but no idea when. The interesting thing for me....the 2 leagues have different rules, I wonder if you could get them to come to a census on rules and which league would become "the league"? I would be more for the ECHL joining with the CHL and developing the CHL's style of play. Unfortunatly those stupid affiliations in the E almost makes that impossible.

If they do this....i'd like to see the Vet rule abolished.

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03-11-2011, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackalsfan1 View Post
Depending on Victoria's move I wonder what the rest of the West will do in the ECHL.

If they move your down to 36 AA teams. If people can wait a couple more years you'll eventually hit that 30 mark. Isn't that amazing though? Back in 2000 you had THREE AA Leagues(and I would guess around 60 teams) and you had TWO AAA leagues.

I hear some AHL fans(not on here) would like 2 leagues and think the AHL is too crowded.

I think one day it may happen(a merger) but no idea when. The interesting thing for me....the 2 leagues have different rules, I wonder if you could get them to come to a census on rules and which league would become "the league"? I would be more for the ECHL joining with the CHL and developing the CHL's style of play. Unfortunatly those stupid affiliations in the E almost makes that impossible.

If they do this....i'd like to see the Vet rule abolished.
only problem, jackals, wouldn't the CHL have to join the PHPA as the A & E already are in deference to the CBA.....

THE VETERAN RULE HERE was due to the influx of the 2 AAA merger, now their option is Europe or Russia

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03-11-2011, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
only problem, jackals, wouldn't the CHL have to join the PHPA as the A & E already are in deference to the CBA.....

THE VETERAN RULE HERE was due to the influx of the 2 AAA merger, now their option is Europe or Russia
Not a problem at all. The PHPA exists in the CHL(this is year 2) remember it was well documented when the Franke's joined the CHL with the whole IHL thing with their Komets that they weren't big on unions and there were cited issues in the past between them and the union(I think they even owed money still?)

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03-11-2011, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackalsfan1 View Post
Not a problem at all. The PHPA exists in the CHL(this is year 2) remember it was well documented when the Franke's joined the CHL with the whole IHL thing with their Komets that they weren't big on unions and there were cited issues in the past between them and the union(I think they even owed money still?)
the difference why Fort Wayne isn't in a higher league once the original I merged is they don't want to be affiliated very much similar to why Utah is in the ECHL now

the other difference is the A is required to be affiliated, and it wouldn't be successful as it would be, even economically or short-term wise...

it's either Fort Wayne ownership settled their differences w/ being in a union or the Komets disappear.........

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03-11-2011, 04:26 PM
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I would love to see it. It would stir up the pot and keep it from getting stagnant.

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03-11-2011, 06:14 PM
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As I see it, the issue is $$.

ECHL has higher salaries ($8.5-$12k/week) than the CHL ($8.2-$10.2k/week plus one exempt player).

And there seem to be a few other things that differentiate "how things are done."

But those can be worked out.

And some NHL teams have had CHL affiliations (sometimes instead of ECHL). It's probably more a matter of where the NHL teams can get the bodies they need when there are call ups/trades at higher levels.

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03-12-2011, 08:12 AM
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It would be interesting if the two leagues merged. The one thing it would do is it would balance the conferences out, which I think would be a good thing. In terms of expenses, I don't think it would be a horrible idea to limit the regular season to intra-conference play.

However, if this happens, I would like to see the AA league re-branded with a new name.

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03-12-2011, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
It would be interesting if the two leagues merged. The one thing it would do is it would balance the conferences out, which I think would be a good thing. In terms of expenses, I don't think it would be a horrible idea to limit the regular season to intra-conference play.

However, if this happens, I would like to see the AA league re-branded with a new name.
I agree. However what would it be? The American Hockey League is used.

If this happened though we could FINALLY end the crap that is the AA musical chairs of getting OWNED in affiliated hockey. It would be one pipeline all the way down. No more double affiliations.

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03-12-2011, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackalsfan1 View Post
I agree. However what would it be? The American Hockey League is used.

If this happened though we could FINALLY end the crap that is the AA musical chairs of getting OWNED in affiliated hockey. It would be one pipeline all the way down. No more double affiliations.
Go back to the International Hockey League?

Just because it would be a bigger league doesn't necessarily mean that there won't be dual affiliations.

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03-13-2011, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Go back to the International Hockey League?

Just because it would be a bigger league doesn't necessarily mean that there won't be dual affiliations.
Agree, bring back the IHL name.

The new North America hockey ladder would be this:
NHL
AHL
IHL
SPHL


FHL

(Few rungs in the ladder missing )

With Odessa and Laredo leaving the CHL, that brings the league down to 16 teams next season.

Looking at the CHL attendance, if the league wanted to drop some 'dead weight', Dayton would be on the chopping block (32% capacity, 1,758 avg per game). Texas plays in a the smallest rink and needs a new facility, and Evansville has yet to move into their new rink, so lose them too.

Lose those teams, bring the league down to 13.

ECHL - drop Trenton and Wheeling (lowest attendance) and if Victoria leaves next season that brings the league to 17 (Chicago joining league next season).

Leagues merge, you got a 30 team IHL to sync up with the parent leagues.

Of course I didn't consider alignment and geographic locations, but it was just a thought.

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03-13-2011, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billycanuck View Post
Agree, bring back the IHL name.

The new North America hockey ladder would be this:
NHL
AHL
IHL
SPHL


FHL

(Few rungs in the ladder missing )

With Odessa and Laredo leaving the CHL, that brings the league down to 16 teams next season.

Looking at the CHL attendance, if the league wanted to drop some 'dead weight', Dayton would be on the chopping block (32% capacity, 1,758 avg per game). Texas plays in a the smallest rink and needs a new facility, and Evansville has yet to move into their new rink, so lose them too.

Lose those teams, bring the league down to 13.

ECHL - drop Trenton and Wheeling (lowest attendance) and if Victoria leaves next season that brings the league to 17 (Chicago joining league next season).

Leagues merge, you got a 30 team IHL to sync up with the parent leagues.

Of course I didn't consider alignment and geographic locations, but it was just a thought.
Time to ditch Quad City too.

I like your idea but unless we have a team in a different country the term "International" is a different story.

However I think the name IHL2.0 under the Frankes(basically) tainted the name International Hoxkey League)

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03-13-2011, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billycanuck View Post
ECHL - drop Trenton and Wheeling (lowest attendance) and if Victoria leaves next season that brings the league to 17 (Chicago joining league next season).
Doubt that will happen. Owned by the NHL NJ Devils.

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03-14-2011, 04:31 AM
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I had proposed this back in August-http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=807099 obviously there would have to be some adjustments with teams jumping ship to the NAHL or relocating but I still like the name I proposed- American Continental Hockey League. The ACHL initials are a nod to the history of the ECHL while the new name states what it is- the hockey league of the American continent.

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03-14-2011, 09:15 AM
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What about keeping them as is. ECHL Champ vs CHL Champ? So in theory it's one league at the end of the day but teams from the 2 "leagues" only matchup in the Finals.(Not really all that different from the East/West in the ECHL now anyway)

Where did you come up with the names for the Divisions?(Excluding Kelly and Brabham)

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Old
03-14-2011, 09:51 AM
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Taylor- WCHL playoff championship trophy
Miron- former CHL owner(chl championship is named after him)
Turner- ihl/uhl championship trophy
Gingher-E.A. "Bud" Gingher Memorial Trophy Awarded to the American Conference playoff champion

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03-19-2011, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billycanuck View Post
Agree, bring back the IHL name.

The new North America hockey ladder would be this:
NHL
AHL
IHL
SPHL


FHL

(Few rungs in the ladder missing )

With Odessa and Laredo leaving the CHL, that brings the league down to 16 teams next season.

Looking at the CHL attendance, if the league wanted to drop some 'dead weight', Dayton would be on the chopping block (32% capacity, 1,758 avg per game). Texas plays in a the smallest rink and needs a new facility, and Evansville has yet to move into their new rink, so lose them too.

Lose those teams, bring the league down to 13.

ECHL - drop Trenton and Wheeling (lowest attendance) and if Victoria leaves next season that brings the league to 17 (Chicago joining league next season).

Leagues merge, you got a 30 team IHL to sync up with the parent leagues.

Of course I didn't consider alignment and geographic locations, but it was just a thought.
When Dayton joined the league they were handicapped by tampering from Ft Wayne. That garbage plus the bad local economy has hurt the team attendance. I believe that will improve in another year or two. A new arena will help, there have been two proposed in the Dayton area in recent years. Dayton was a strong team in the original IHL, averaging 4000 and winning 3 Turner cups. If you want to get rid of a team, dump the thuggish Komets. The "Slapshot" days are over!

Why would you dump Evansville if they are getting a new arena? That is the kind of thing that you want in minor league hockey, a shiny new building to draw people!

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03-19-2011, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by adsfan View Post
When Dayton joined the league they were handicapped by tampering from Ft Wayne. That garbage plus the bad local economy has hurt the team attendance. I believe that will improve in another year or two. A new arena will help, there have been two proposed in the Dayton area in recent years. Dayton was a strong team in the original IHL, averaging 4000 and winning 3 Turner cups. If you want to get rid of a team, dump the thuggish Komets. The "Slapshot" days are over!

Why would you dump Evansville if they are getting a new arena? That is the kind of thing that you want in minor league hockey, a shiny new building to draw people!
How does Ft.Wayne cause fans not to go to Dayton games?

Of course my post was all hypothetical, so Evansville was just on the chopping block because of current attendance. I know they are moving into a new facility, but it still remains to be seen how strong of a hockey market it is. Have you seen their website though? It is a joke, looks like a elementary kid runs it!

Komets may have some 'thug' tactics, but they still draw exceptionally well at the gate and have a strong community following.

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03-20-2011, 02:01 PM
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There will be no merger, I guarantee you that.

The owners of the CHL teams will join the ECHL as expansion members if such a thing were to happen.

The Central Hockey League, and its parent corporation Global Entertainment, is on its last legs. It has been delisted and traded over the counter since 2008, meaning the corporation has one foot in the grave.

There is little to no business for arena development in a recession, and they can't make up for that revenue stream (their PRIMARY business) by running a hockey league at a profit. They haven't been successful at their secondary business, which is managing the arenas that they build (Rocky Mountain and Arizona's histories will tell you that).

Their attempt to stay alive by integrating the IHL's teams bought them another season with nearly 20 teams, but may have also hastened the death spiral by increasing costs at the team level (higher number of vets, higher cost.)

It should be an interesting offseason. I think the CHL will be around next year, but with 12 or fewer teams.

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03-21-2011, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by billycanuck View Post
How does Ft.Wayne cause fans not to go to Dayton games?
Of course my post was all hypothetical, so Evansville was just on the chopping block because of current attendance. I know they are moving into a new facility, but it still remains to be seen how strong of a hockey market it is. Have you seen their website though? It is a joke, looks like a elementary kid runs it!

Komets may have some 'thug' tactics, but they still draw exceptionally well at the gate and have a strong community following.
When Dayton's team started, they had 2 owners from Ft. Wayne. Two or three of Dayton's best players were traded to Ft. Wayne for practically nothing. After those owners were ousted, the Dayton Gems were no longer a feeder for the team in Ft. Wayne. When you lose your good players, you win less. When you win less, fewer people will come out to see the team. This is almost always true in sports, it is especially true for a new team. When you have fewer fans, you have less money to compete with a city that draws well. You are starving the other team(s) for money by such underhanded tactics as stealing their good players.

The thug tactics were a reference to Ft Wayne's players deliberately injuring several of the Dayton players. If I was running the league, Ft Wayne would be banned from the playoffs after this season for such garbage. They get away with a lot. See the 1-08-11 thread in this section.


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03-26-2011, 05:32 PM
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From the rumors I am hearing in Texas there will be more Texas based CHL teams dropping out than Odessa and Laredo. I am hearing rumors the Texas Brahmas will join Bossier-Shreveport switching to the SPHL and they may bring the Mississippi Riverkings with them. If the Brahmas go, this would put even more pressure on the RGV Killer Bees, as its a ten hour drive from DFW to the Valley. There comes a point where the RGV will see how isolated they are sticking with the CHL instead of dropping down to the NAHL. Don't be surprised if Allen is the only CHL club left in Texas.

One wonders how long the Arizona Sundogs will stick with the CHL, but another year appears safe as they have been rewarded the All Star game next year. Rapid City, Colorado, Wichita, Tulsa, and Missouri should stick as well.

While I haven't heard any rumors about the former IHL clubs, only Fort Wayne appears to have a strong fan base. I figure Evansville will stick around to see how well they draw in the new arena, but I wonder how long Quad City, Bloomington, and Dayton will stick around before they fold or look at other leagues, another year?

At the moment I see no expansion cities on the horizon, maybe Flint. Unless the west coast ECHL clubs join the CHL or vice a versa... If anything I see more teams dropping down to the NAHL or USHL, or starting another A league with lower operational costs similar to the SPHL... Without a doubt, this deep recession, or should I say this double dip recession, is hurting pro minor league hockey at the AA level as much if not more than many state and local governments...

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03-26-2011, 09:31 PM
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I hadn't heard Brahmas to the SPHL. Last rumor I heard involving them had them keeping their WSHL team and also having an NAHL team like Fresno.

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04-09-2011, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaToby View Post
From the rumors I am hearing in Texas there will be more Texas based CHL teams dropping out than Odessa and Laredo. I am hearing rumors the Texas Brahmas will join Bossier-Shreveport switching to the SPHL and they may bring the Mississippi Riverkings with them. If the Brahmas go, this would put even more pressure on the RGV Killer Bees, as its a ten hour drive from DFW to the Valley. There comes a point where the RGV will see how isolated they are sticking with the CHL instead of dropping down to the NAHL. Don't be surprised if Allen is the only CHL club left in Texas.

One wonders how long the Arizona Sundogs will stick with the CHL, but another year appears safe as they have been rewarded the All Star game next year. Rapid City, Colorado, Wichita, Tulsa, and Missouri should stick as well.

While I haven't heard any rumors about the former IHL clubs, only Fort Wayne appears to have a strong fan base. I figure Evansville will stick around to see how well they draw in the new arena, but I wonder how long Quad City, Bloomington, and Dayton will stick around before they fold or look at other leagues, another year?

At the moment I see no expansion cities on the horizon, maybe Flint. Unless the west coast ECHL clubs join the CHL or vice a versa... If anything I see more teams dropping down to the NAHL or USHL, or starting another A league with lower operational costs similar to the SPHL... Without a doubt, this deep recession, or should I say this double dip recession, is hurting pro minor league hockey at the AA level as much if not more than many state and local governments...
I hadn't heard about the Brahmas or River Kings dropping to the SPHL, I had heard about Shreveport possibly though. As a fan of the Ice Gators I kind of hope they do- they are close teams (Shreveport & Mississippi) and would help the league out, as well as our local attendance. It'd also be nice to have a league with more than 8 teams.

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04-09-2011, 03:27 PM
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Heres some more CHL news:

http://blogs.caller.com/rajan/archiv...es-bombsh.html

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