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Potential for a mess if Hawks win in a shootout

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Old
04-10-2011, 06:53 AM
  #1
ua
 
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Potential for a mess if Hawks win in a shootout

With the new tie breaker as non shootout wins. What a mess this makes for today.

If the Hawks Win in they would have 99 points tying them with Anaheim, Nasville and Phoenix. If they win in a Shoot out then we need to use the secondary tiebreaker as the Preds, Hawks and ‘Yotes will all end with 99 points and 38 R.O.W.

Ducks take 4th with 43 Regulation or OT Wins (47 total , 4 S/O)

Hawks take with 38 ROW (45 total, 6 S/O)

Preds take with 38 ROW (44 total, 6 S/O)

Yotes take with 38 ROW (43 total, 5 S/O)

Then to break the ties and determine seeding “The greater number of points earned in games between the tied clubs. If two clubs are tied, and have not played an equal number of home games against each other, points earned in the first game played in the city that had the extra game shall not be included. If more than two clubs are tied, the higher percentage of available points earned in games among those clubs, and not including any "odd" games, shall be used to determine the standing.

It seems like the league needlessly overcomplicated the formula. Before splitting the atom and having the number cruncher at the league office be called to action ( my guess the BETT signal )

Why not simply use total wins as the next tie breaker and a little value to winning the extra point in the shootout , then if still tied get in to head to head match ups. (final tie break is goal differential for entire season). This would resolve the seeding this time.

thoughts, comments , calls of pointlessness?

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Old
04-10-2011, 07:29 AM
  #2
Shrimper
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I so hope that the Hawks win the shoot-out now.

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04-10-2011, 10:23 AM
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Mantha Poodoo
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It won't be messy, because they have the matchup tiebreaker vs the Preds and Yotes and it will put them in 5th regardless of whether they win on the shootout or not.

Now what would be messy is if they were tied in matchups vs, say, the Preds, as well as tied in goal differential.

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04-10-2011, 10:25 AM
  #4
Mantha Poodoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
I so hope that the Hawks win the shoot-out now.
They'll take 5th regardless if they win in either the shootout or regulation. They'll take 7th if they lose in OT/SO. They'll take 8th if they lose in regulation and Dallas loses. They'll be knocked out if they lose in regulation and Dallas wins.

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04-10-2011, 10:25 AM
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If they didn't like it, maybe the teams should have won more games.

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04-10-2011, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
If they didn't like it, maybe the teams should have won more games.
+1

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Old
04-10-2011, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
If they didn't like it, maybe the teams should have won more games.
I don't understand why teams don't try to win all 82 games, either. So dumb.

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04-10-2011, 10:31 AM
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Why don't just use goal differential as the first tiebreaker? It is a superior method.

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Old
04-10-2011, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
It won't be messy, because they have the matchup tiebreaker vs the Preds and Yotes and it will put them in 5th regardless of whether they win on the shootout or not.

Now what would be messy is if they were tied in matchups vs, say, the Preds, as well as tied in goal differential.
I'm not sure how they define "odd" games though. If its a three way tie, I would assume they would take four Chicago/Nashville games since it would be unfair if they took all six.

If they take the last four Chicago/Nashville wins (which would make sense as the "odd" game tiebreaks in a two team H2H take out the earliest game when possible).

Nashville: 2 (Chi) + 4 (Phx) = 6
Phoenix: 5 (Chi) + 4 (Nas) = 9
Chicago: 7 (Nas) + 5 (Phx) = 12

So that would be Chicago (Anaheim), Phoenix (Detroit) and Nashville (San Jose)

But if its first four games, where Nashville beat the Hawks three times (twice in a shootout).

Nashville: 6 (Chi) + 4 (Phx) = 10
Phoenix: 5 (Phx) + 4 (Nas) = 9
Chicago: 4 (Nas) + 5 (Phx) = 9

Now Nashville is in 5th, and the Hawks have any tiebreak over Phoenix so they come in 6th.

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04-10-2011, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe84 View Post
I don't understand why teams don't try to win all 82 games, either. So dumb.
Well, that's how the system is set up. They're encouraged to not play for the shootouts. How many times over the course of an 82-game season do teams sit back in overtime because they're a good shootout team?

If they end up with a 4-way tie for 4th, then that's what they deserve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theaub View Post
I'm not sure how they define "odd" games though. If its a three way tie, I would assume they would take four Chicago/Nashville games since it would be unfair if they took all six.

If they take the last four Chicago/Nashville wins (which would make sense as the "odd" game tiebreaks in a two team H2H take out the earliest game when possible).

Nashville: 2 (Chi) + 4 (Phx) = 6
Phoenix: 5 (Chi) + 4 (Nas) = 9
Chicago: 7 (Nas) + 5 (Phx) = 12

So that would be Chicago (Anaheim), Phoenix (Detroit) and Nashville (San Jose)

But if its first four games, where Nashville beat the Hawks three times (twice in a shootout).

Nashville: 6 (Chi) + 4 (Phx) = 10
Phoenix: 5 (Phx) + 4 (Nas) = 9
Chicago: 4 (Nas) + 5 (Phx) = 9

Now Nashville is in 5th, and the Hawks have any tiebreak over Phoenix so they come in 6th.
That's why of % of available points and not total points.

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Old
04-10-2011, 10:34 AM
  #11
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**** missed that part. That does make it a lot easier lol

Good thing none of those Nashville/Phoenix games went to OT then.

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04-10-2011, 10:59 AM
  #12
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"games (pts)"

NSH vs PHX and CHI = 6 (6) + 4(4) = 10 pts / 20 max = 10/20 = 50%
PHX vs NSH and CHI = 4(4) + 4(5)= 9pts / 16 max = 56.25%
CHI vs NSH and PHX = 6 (8) + 4(5) = 13 pts / 20 max = 65%

Chicago
wins = 5th
OT/SO loss = 7th
Reg Loss =8th or 9th

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04-10-2011, 11:04 AM
  #13
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well each team has played an equal amount of home and road games against each other so you can take that out

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04-10-2011, 11:07 AM
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I'm pretty sure that if the Hawks get two points via a regulation, overtime, or shootout win, they are the 5th seed and face Anaheim.

If they lose in overtime or a shootout, they get a point and draw San Jose in round 1.

A loss in regulation and a Dallas regulation loss, one point game, or shootout appearance and we draw Vancouver in round one.

I heard we have tiebreakers over Los Angeles, Phoenix, and Nashville if we're tied at the end of 82 games.

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04-10-2011, 11:09 AM
  #15
llamateizer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by husamus156 View Post
"games (pts)"

NSH vs PHX and CHI = 6 (6) + 4(4) = 10 pts / 20 max = 10/20 = 50%
PHX vs NSH and CHI = 4(4) + 4(5)= 9pts / 16 max = 56.25%
CHI vs NSH and PHX = 6 (8) + 4(5) = 13 pts / 20 max = 65%

Chicago
wins = 5th
OT/SO loss = 7th
Reg Loss =8th or 9th
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cullksinikers View Post
I'm pretty sure that if the Hawks get two points via a regulation, overtime, or shootout win, they are the 5th seed and face Anaheim.

If they lose in overtime or a shootout, they get a point and draw San Jose in round 1.

A loss in regulation and a Dallas regulation loss, one point game, or shootout appearance and we draw Vancouver in round one.

I heard we have tiebreakers over Los Angeles, Phoenix, and Nashville if we're tied at the end of 82 games.
Absolutely Right

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Old
04-10-2011, 11:17 AM
  #16
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A 5th seed is better than 7th or 8th. You get an "easier" opponent and there's a chance, though maybe just a little, that you'll get home ice advantage for a series. I think the Hawks make a statement tonight and get into the playoffs hot. They'll get hot at the right time I think. I say they'll get the two points out of the game tonight, which eliminates Dallas.

Then, here are your matchups for the WC ECQF:

(1) VAN vs (8) LA
(2) SJ vs (7) PHX
(3) DET vs (6) NSH
(4) ANA vs (5) CHI

It's amazing how we could be out of the playoffs to being a 5th seed and getting home ice down the road based on how we do against Detroit and how Dallas does against Minnesota.

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Old
04-10-2011, 11:23 AM
  #17
DowJones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by His Beardliness View Post
Why don't just use goal differential as the first tiebreaker? It is a superior method.
Exactly. IMO this should be used as the first tie-breaker after points with the Goals Made as the third.

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04-10-2011, 11:35 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DowJones View Post
Exactly. IMO this should be used as the first tie-breaker after points with the Goals Made as the third.
proplem with goal diffrential is depending on the year.......teams play more divisonal

gms and for a team in aweaker division.....it gives them a advantage because of getting more goals and therby a better pt diff

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04-10-2011, 11:56 AM
  #19
King Woodballs
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now thats a cluster **** of a tie breaker hahaha

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04-10-2011, 12:09 PM
  #20
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Your guide to West tiebreakers, from NHL.com

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04-10-2011, 12:42 PM
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http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=558984

If the Chicago Blackhawks defeat the Detroit Red Wings in regulation or overtime:

(1) Vancouver Canucks vs. (8) Los Angeles Kings
(2) San Jose Sharks vs. (7) Phoenix Coyotes
(3) Detroit Red Wings vs. (6) Nashville Predators
(4) Anaheim Ducks vs. (5) Chicago Blackhawks

If the Chicago Blackhawks defeat the Detroit Red Wings in a shootout:

(1) Vancouver Canucks vs. (8) Los Angeles Kings
(2) San Jose Sharks vs. (7) Nashville Predators
(3) Detroit Red Wings vs. (6) Phoenix Coyotes
(4) Anaheim Ducks vs. (5) Chicago Blackhawks

If the Chicago Blackhawks get one point against the Detroit Red Wings:

(1) Vancouver Canucks vs. (8) Los Angeles Kings
(2) San Jose Sharks vs. (7) Chicago Blackhawks
(3) Detroit Red Wings vs. (6) Phoenix Coyotes
(4) Anaheim Ducks vs. (5) Nashville Predators

If the Chicago Blackhawks lose in regulation to the Detroit Red Wings AND the Dallas Stars defeat the Minnesota Wild in regulation or overtime:

(1) Vancouver Canucks vs. (8) Dallas Stars
(2) San Jose Sharks vs. (7) Los Angeles Kings
(3) Detroit Red Wings vs. (6) Phoenix Coyotes
(4) Anaheim Ducks vs. (5) Nashville Predators

If the Chicago Blackhawks lose in regulation to the Detroit Red Wings AND the Dallas Stars defeat the Minnesota Wild in a shootout or lose in regulation, overtime or a shootout:

(1) Vancouver Canucks vs. (8) Chicago Blackhawks
(2) San Jose Sharks vs. (7) Los Angeles Kings
(3) Detroit Red Wings vs. (6) Phoenix Coyotes
(4) Anaheim Ducks vs. (5) Nashville Predators

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Old
04-10-2011, 12:56 PM
  #22
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It's so crazy that nobody in the west knows who will play who with just 2 important games left WOW

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04-10-2011, 01:00 PM
  #23
highoffglass
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Easy solution: take out the points system, and have a win column and loss column

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04-10-2011, 01:02 PM
  #24
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I find it amazing the league was actually smart enough to do the ROW thing. Of course it diminishes their own creation, the shootout. At the end of the day go to the friggin' 3 point system.

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04-10-2011, 01:11 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingKadri View Post
Easy solution: take out the points system, and have a win column and loss column
It's not really a solution, we'd still have pretty much the same tie breakers.

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