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Old
04-10-2011, 10:23 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
More than likely Bob will be our starter and having someone like Bryz here for a few years might hurt his development because he would be getting less and less playtime because of Bryz. We just need a back-up goalie and either Boucher or Leighton should be the one, considering they are already in the system, but if I had to choose, Boosh easily.
Oh, Bryz is certainly unlikely because at best they'd be competing for starts and probably splitting games (which Bryz isn't gonna do). But if they were comfortable with the two playing close to even games, Bryz would be an amazing guy for Bob to learn from for a couple years.

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04-10-2011, 10:26 PM
  #27
Terence Peterman
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Are you serious?

I think this supposes that the two are duking it out a little more, possibly splitting games. I kinda doubt Bryzgalov buys that, but in terms of Bobrovsky's development, having a top-end goalie to learn from who speaks Russian and can really communicate with him would be huge.

Your apples to grass analogy is retarded.
Is it retarded because it makes sense, and you're such a dolt sometimes that it hurts to comprehend? It won't mean asterisk if Bob can't actually play games. That you even have to throw in that the guy's trying to sell some sort of split to Bryzgalov, who has averaged 66 starts the last three years, is ridiculous. It's already a hypothetical, and an asterisk one at that.

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04-10-2011, 10:30 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
Is it retarded because it makes sense, and you're such a dolt sometimes that it hurts to comprehend? It won't mean asterisk if Bob can't actually play games. That you even have to throw in that the guy's trying to sell some sort of split to Bryzgalov, who has averaged 66 starts the last three years, is ridiculous. It's already a hypothetical, and an asterisk one at that.
No, the analogy doesn't make any sense at all.

Why Bryzgalov would be a good guy to work with Bobrovsky is pretty *ing obvious. Having a top-end fellow Russian to learn from is the best possible thing for a goalie who has limited understanding of the English language and similarly limited opportunity to study high-level goaltenders firsthand by watching them play, or receiving good coaching.

The only sticking point is if you expect Bryz to continue to starting 60+ games. As I've said, it's clearly unlikely for that reason alone, but in all other regards he would be the ideal veteran for Bobrovsky to learn from.

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04-10-2011, 10:47 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
No, the analogy doesn't make any sense at all.

Why Bryzgalov would be a good guy to work with Bobrovsky is pretty *ing obvious. Having a top-end fellow Russian to learn from is the best possible thing for a goalie who has limited understanding of the English language and similarly limited opportunity to study high-level goaltenders firsthand by watching them play, or receiving good coaching.

The only sticking point is if you expect Bryz to continue to starting 60+ games. As I've said, it's clearly unlikely for that reason alone, but in all other regards he would be the ideal veteran for Bobrovsky to learn from.
So in the most convenient, terrific world ever, it's a really good idea?

Kinda sounds like everything else.

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04-10-2011, 10:52 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
So in the most convenient, terrific world ever, it's a really good idea?

Kinda sounds like everything else.
Games played make it unrealistic, but yeah, everything else about it makes it ideal.

My point was never that it was realistic, but merely that the reasons to have Bryzgalov/Bobrovsky as a tandem are obvious, and your apples analogy was just idiotic. Having a seasoned and capable Russian goalie to work with Bob is OBVIOUSLY a huge benefit.

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04-10-2011, 10:59 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Games played make it unrealistic, but yeah, everything else about it makes it ideal.

My point was never that it was realistic, but merely that the reasons to have Bryzgalov/Bobrovsky as a tandem are obvious, and your apples analogy was just idiotic. Having a seasoned and capable Russian goalie to work with Bob is OBVIOUSLY a huge benefit.
Just as obvious as needing caps lock to state it.

The reasons are obvious. It's so far from the realm of reasonable it should be obvious it's stupid to even bring up.

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04-10-2011, 11:41 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
Just as obvious as needing caps lock to state it.

The reasons are obvious. It's so far from the realm of reasonable it should be obvious it's stupid to even bring up.
It would be nice to have both goalies for awhile, at least until we can determine which one is more clutch. Though maybe Bob will prove to be clutch in these playoffs.

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04-10-2011, 11:57 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by VALIS View Post
It would be nice to have both goalies for awhile, at least until we can determine which one is more clutch. Though maybe Bob will prove to be clutch in these playoffs.
ShotScore? Is that you?

Clutch doesn't exist, guy. It's late, I'm cranky and sober, and I don't want to go through this again.

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04-11-2011, 07:58 AM
  #34
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This Read fellow who got a 1-way contract for next year, is he supposed to make the team? He's having a pretty solid start to his pro career point-wise at least.

I wouldn't be too opposed to going without any UFA signings this summer, see if one or two from the Phantoms actually can stick in the big league and if that doesn't work sign one of the poor sods left over after the summer (there's always a few, and sometimes you get real lucky with one...) and then maybe have some cap space to make a nice addition at the trade deadline next year.

JvR-Richards-Giroux
Hartnell-Carter-Brière
Powe-Read-Versteeg
Carcillo-Betts-Nödl
Shelley

Pronger-Carle
Timonen-Coburn
Meszaros-Bartulis
Walker

Bobrovsky
Leighton

I think that is doable with this cap hit. (Nevermind the lines) And then you can of course always waive Walker and have someone more cap friendly (or just a better player) as your 6/7 d. Even if it's a bit worse than this year, we should still be plenty good enough to make the playoffs and then if we could add some spark with a late addition we might just win the cup again

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04-11-2011, 09:24 AM
  #35
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I would rather win now, so if bringing in Bryzgalov gives us a better chance of winning now, you do it

btw, I already thin k Bob has played too many games and is tired. It was a dumb idea to give him such a big load this year and we might pay for it in the playoffs

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04-11-2011, 10:24 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
No, the analogy doesn't make any sense at all.

Why Bryzgalov would be a good guy to work with Bobrovsky is pretty *ing obvious. Having a top-end fellow Russian to learn from is the best possible thing for a goalie who has limited understanding of the English language and similarly limited opportunity to study high-level goaltenders firsthand by watching them play, or receiving good coaching.

The only sticking point is if you expect Bryz to continue to starting 60+ games. As I've said, it's clearly unlikely for that reason alone, but in all other regards he would be the ideal veteran for Bobrovsky to learn from.
how signing UFA all-star calibre goalie without cap space to be language tutor is good idea? steal Arturs Irbe for that...

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04-11-2011, 10:36 AM
  #37
Terence Peterman
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
I would rather win now, so if bringing in Bryzgalov gives us a better chance of winning now, you do it

btw, I already thin k Bob has played too many games and is tired. It was a dumb idea to give him such a big load this year and we might pay for it in the playoffs
You should write Lavi a letter.

Underline the parts where you're really concerned, I heard that helps establish them better.

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04-11-2011, 10:37 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
There is a lot of work to do in the offseason, and we know how Homer handles the offseason...

I'm normally a Carle supporter, but after having a career year in assists, +/- and without Pronger to rely on throughout the year, his stock will be as high as it possibly can be. Hopefully he can be traded for a serious pick or young talent.
If you are building from the defense out you keep all the defense you can, not get rid of them. How long do you really expect Timonen and Pronger to carry this defense? At some point they need to recognize that a UFA goalie is on the market and can be signed(Bryzgalov, Ilya » G PHO 30 $4,250,000 2011 (UFA)), and need to make some tough choices, but not going back to becoming weaker on defense.

UFA's: Boynton(.500), Boucher(.925), O'Donnell(1.3), Leino(.800), and Zherdev(2.0); total = $5.525 mill, could be $6.6mill with Carcillo.

RFA's: Powe(.725), Nodl(.850), Carcillo(1.075), expect Powe and Nodl to return for the RFA increase, both making adding up to @$2mill cap hit.


So the urgent need IMO is in the net, they need an upgrade while they mentor Bobrovsky unless he has a great run in the playoffs. Stay strong on defense and move one of the fwds. Can they move Briere? If Briere has another strong playoff and this team is built to win over the next two years can you take the chance and move him? Tough questions, but I think we know the answer, it is staring people right in the face and they just refuse to see the need and to a certain extent management has as well.

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04-11-2011, 10:39 AM
  #39
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I have argued a long time that his numbers merit his salary. I will just ignore the Timonen part though...

Yes I would trade him, because he is going to be UFA the year after and I don't see us re-signing him. Plus his number were better this year with Pronger out of the line-up oddly enough, so his value today is the best time to trade him and try out some prospects.

You can never really have "enough" point producing defencemen, but I just find Carle to be replaceable, especially for the return he can garner.

What I'm trying to say is, his return > his value to this team. IMO.
That's a bold statement to make. Given the structure of the organization I think a top 4 defenseman is much more valuable then any picks or prospects. Unless they can get a Blue Chipper in return (unlikely) then Carle holds more value to the team for next year. I think the team is Committed to having 5 capable defenseman (and nobody in our minor league system is capable of that).

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04-11-2011, 10:43 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by MiD View Post
how signing UFA all-star calibre goalie without cap space to be language tutor is good idea? steal Arturs Irbe for that...
It's not just being a language tutor; he would also be a very guy for Bob to begin emulating and studying.

I never said anything about games played or dollars. But Rick Blaine's original analogy was heavy handed at best, presuming there were no good reasons why you'd want to have a Bryz/Bob tandem. There are numerous good reasons.

There are also reasons of practicality that mean it wouldn't happen, but I never said it was realistic...only that there are plenty of benefits to it.

Also, having Bob play closer to 40 games may be more beneficial for him if he can step back into more of a learning role. It has a lot to do with how the playoffs shake out, but it may wind up being that he played too much this year without being really ready.

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04-11-2011, 10:46 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
It's not just being a language tutor; he would also be a very guy for Bob to begin emulating and studying.

I never said anything about games played or dollars. But Rick Blaine's original analogy was heavy handed at best, presuming there were no good reasons why you'd want to have a Bryz/Bob tandem. There are numerous good reasons.

There are also reasons of practicality that mean it wouldn't happen, but I never said it was realistic...only that there are plenty of benefits to it.

Also, having Bob play closer to 40 games may be more beneficial for him if he can step back into more of a learning role. It has a lot to do with how the playoffs shake out, but it may wind up being that he played too much this year without being really ready.
Nothing against Bob, but if you have Bryzgalov on your roster playing the way he's capable of playing... Bob wouldn't be playing 40 games.

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04-11-2011, 10:52 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
It's not just being a language tutor; he would also be a very guy for Bob to begin emulating and studying.

I never said anything about games played or dollars. But Rick Blaine's original analogy was heavy handed at best, presuming there were no good reasons why you'd want to have a Bryz/Bob tandem. There are numerous good reasons.

There are also reasons of practicality that mean it wouldn't happen, but I never said it was realistic...only that there are plenty of benefits to it.

Also, having Bob play closer to 40 games may be more beneficial for him if he can step back into more of a learning role. It has a lot to do with how the playoffs shake out, but it may wind up being that he played too much this year without being really ready.
Yeah, there's numerous good reasons, but you're overlooking the reality of the situation -- neither guy would want a reduction in games, and neither guy wants the ambiguity that would go with such a thing. ****, Bob's already started 52 games. The best way he's going to learn at this point is simply staying on track.

Maybe he does get worn out with playoffs, but that's really irrelevant. If he needs a Bryzgalov to help build up his stamina he's probably ****ed anyway. The guy's been thrust into the role this year, and has had a great amount of relative success. You don't take any of that away from him next year; you let him continue to run with it and have a steady backup (sup, Boosh?) there to help out. Seriously, any positives that would come with Bryzgalov aren't even guaranteed. A move like that could seriously **** up his psyche, and you don't go near that with a ten meter cattle prod with a goalie.

He's been getting better with the language all year. He's been bouncing back great after bad starts all year. Bob might benefit from Bryzgalov, but that's like saying I'd benefit from a morning beej every day I woke up. It's obvious, but not necessary at all for me to have a good day.

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04-11-2011, 10:53 AM
  #43
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are you serious? Leighton is not a #1 goalie. If he was, he wouldnt have let in that garbage goal
Yeah, because I've NEVER seen a #1 goalie let in a garbage goal. I'm not saying Leights is a #1 but it is retarded to state that he can't be because of that 1 goal.

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04-11-2011, 11:02 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
Yeah, there's numerous good reasons, but you're overlooking the reality of the situation -- neither guy would want a reduction in games, and neither guy wants the ambiguity that would go with such a thing. ****, Bob's already started 52 games. The best way he's going to learn at this point is simply staying on track.

Maybe he does get worn out with playoffs, but that's really irrelevant. If he needs a Bryzgalov to help build up his stamina he's probably ****ed anyway. The guy's been thrust into the role this year, and has had a great amount of relative success. You don't take any of that away from him next year; you let him continue to run with it and have a steady backup (sup, Boosh?) there to help out. Seriously, any positives that would come with Bryzgalov aren't even guaranteed. A move like that could seriously **** up his psyche, and you don't go near that with a ten meter cattle prod with a goalie.

He's been getting better with the language all year. He's been bouncing back great after bad starts all year. Bob might benefit from Bryzgalov, but that's like saying I'd benefit from a morning beej every day I woke up. It's obvious, but not necessary at all for me to have a good day.
I didn't say it was ****ing necessary, I'm simply saying that your original analogy was just you being an ass.

In an ideal world it'd be great to have Bryzgalov sharing time with Bob. It's obviously not going to happen, but that doesn't mean there aren't benefits. Which your original post - in which you were just being a grumpy **** - completely ignores.

I never said it was necessary or practical, only that it's obvious that there are benefits.

I'd be perfectly fine with Bob/Boosh next year.

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04-11-2011, 11:03 AM
  #45
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If the experiment of "stacking' the D and going with a solid career backup and promising rookie doesn't equate to a Cup then I absolutely think the Flyers should try and get Bryzgalof. That would be a great tandem.

I'm worried about the lax D of late and Pronger not being fully healthy. Let's face it Pronger and Timonen have a lot of miles! I think we'll need to rethink our stategy so "building" from the net up instead of the D and back is in the offing. I wouldn't mind bringing in Pitkanen if it wasn't for his salary requirements. He's become a solid D man who plays a lot of minutes. To me he would be better than Carle but it seems more expensive given that he's already making 4.5M which is ummm a wee bit much.

Anyway..looks like the Canes may lose alot of players to free agency..here is an article which talks about Pitkanen and Cole. Wouldn't mind trying to add a few Canes and neither would Lavy but with our cap constraints..unlikely.

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Cole is due to become an unrestricted free agent. So are Joni Pitkanen, Jussi Jokinen, Chad LaRose, Cory Stillman, Pat Dwyer and Jay Harrison.

General manager Jim Rutherford said re-signing Cole, who scored 26 goals, would be one of the team's priorities. But at what asking price? Cole, 32, made $3 million this season.

Pitkanen, who had a $4.5 million salary, is a swift, puck-moving defenseman who plays a lot of minutes. But are the Canes willing to pay what Pitkanen potentially could make on the free-agent market?

Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/04/...#ixzz1JE3bl7YG

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04-11-2011, 11:04 AM
  #46
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Yeah, because I've NEVER seen a #1 goalie let in a garbage goal. I'm not saying Leights is a #1 but it is retarded to state that he can't be because of that 1 goal.
Theres two view points on Leighton, there's the logic that the weak goals he gives up are just lapses and are goals that every goalie gives up.

The more common view point is that Leighton is and has always been a career minor league goaltender. Like any goalie he is capable of a hot streak, but the soft goals are more him coming back to earth then just bad luck. I also feel the need to point out that nobody picking him up on waivers is a clear indication he's not a #1 goalie. He's not even a 1A, if he was some team would have jumped at the opportunity to have him for 800k next year and also **** our cap up.

Let's also not ignore the fact that his 5 hole is a consistent problem area for him. It's not one weak goal that gets him crucified, it's that his biggest flaw was our undoing at the worst possible time.

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04-11-2011, 11:04 AM
  #47
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Nothing against Bob, but if you have Bryzgalov on your roster playing the way he's capable of playing... Bob wouldn't be playing 40 games.
I agree with this.

Bob is still young and will pick up a decent amount of starts, but the moment Bryzgalov is on the Flyers' roster he becomes the #1.

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04-11-2011, 11:11 AM
  #48
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Trading Carle makes a lot of sense. With the way Mez has played, the Flyers would still have the best top 4 D core in the league...and I think guys like Bart, Gust, and Syvret deserve a real shot at making the team next year. I am sure there is a vet D out there that they could get cheap to replace Odonnell too.

With Carle's salary and the cap increase, they could hopefully resign Leino and maybe even go out an sign another vet winger (Gagne, Hejduk, Cole etc).

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04-11-2011, 11:13 AM
  #49
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Nothing against Bob, but if you have Bryzgalov on your roster playing the way he's capable of playing... Bob wouldn't be playing 40 games.
This is valid and something to consider but I guess we'll sse how Bob responds in the playoffs. I guess with Bryzgalov it would be about winning now or at least next year if now (this year) doesn't pan out. Obviously he would be more of a playoff trump card...

Anyway, sounds not likely to get him but not an impossibility...

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04-11-2011, 11:13 AM
  #50
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More than likely Bob will be our starter and having someone like Bryz here for a few years might hurt his development because he would be getting less and less playtime because of Bryz. We just need a back-up goalie and either Boucher or Leighton should be the one, considering they are already in the system, but if I had to choose, Boosh easily.
Bobrovsky is 22, not really worried about that. Development means they can keep Bobrovsky, evaluate Eriksson, and at the same time have a goalie who is a legit #1 in the NHL. Not sure what is to decide especially if the goalie issue continues to be a problem in the post-season.

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