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Old
04-11-2011, 11:14 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
Theres two view points on Leighton, there's the logic that the weak goals he gives up are just lapses and are goals that every goalie gives up.

The more common view point is that Leighton is and has always been a career minor league goaltender. Like any goalie he is capable of a hot streak, but the soft goals are more him coming back to earth then just bad luck. I also feel the need to point out that nobody picking him up on waivers is a clear indication he's not a #1 goalie. He's not even a 1A, if he was some team would have jumped at the opportunity to have him for 800k next year and also **** our cap up.

Let's also not ignore the fact that his 5 hole is a consistent problem area for him. It's not one weak goal that gets him crucified, it's that his biggest flaw was our undoing at the worst possible time.
He also has a janked up back which even more reason not to put much stock in the guy and why he was most likely not picked up even at a fairer market value...

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04-11-2011, 11:15 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by hof2120 View Post
Yeah, because I've NEVER seen a #1 goalie let in a garbage goal. I'm not saying Leights is a #1 but it is retarded to state that he can't be because of that 1 goal.
do you really want me to list all the reason why he isnt a #1 goalie?

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04-11-2011, 11:16 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
No, the analogy doesn't make any sense at all.

Why Bryzgalov would be a good guy to work with Bobrovsky is pretty *ing obvious. Having a top-end fellow Russian to learn from is the best possible thing for a goalie who has limited understanding of the English language and similarly limited opportunity to study high-level goaltenders firsthand by watching them play, or receiving good coaching.

The only sticking point is if you expect Bryz to continue to starting 60+ games. As I've said, it's clearly unlikely for that reason alone, but in all other regards he would be the ideal veteran for Bobrovsky to learn from.
Not sure exactly why anyone would even argue against this view, quite baffling to be totally honest.

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04-11-2011, 11:16 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
This is valid and something to consider but I guess we'll sse how Bob responds in the playoffs. I guess with Bryzgalov it would be about winning now or at least next year if now (this year) doesn't pan out. Obviously he would be more of a playoff trump card...

Anyway, sounds not likely to get him but not an impossibility...
At that point, you should trade Bob. Worth more to us as a trading chip than someone we're going to hold onto as a backup for a couple of years.

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04-11-2011, 11:17 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Not sure exactly why anyone would even argue against this view, quite baffling to be totally honest.
Depends if you want to develop Bob, or just move on. Bryzgalov isn't going to come in here and split time with Bob.

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04-11-2011, 11:19 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
At that point, you should trade Bob. Worth more to us as a trading chip than someone we're going to hold onto as a backup for a couple of years.
True to some extent. I just rather stack the goaltending than the D given how that isn't looking as solid as we thought it would be...there is always the x factor of injury anyway.

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04-11-2011, 11:21 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
True to some extent. I just rather stack the goaltending than the D given how that isn't looking as solid as we thought it would be...there is always the x factor of injury anyway.
You can sign a contingency plan... but you can get far more value out of whatever you get back for Bob than you're going to get from him as an expected backup to close out his contract.

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04-11-2011, 11:22 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You can sign a contingency plan... but you can get far more value out of whatever you get back for Bob than you're going to get from him as an expected backup to close out his contract.
Yeah like one of our number 1 picks!

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04-11-2011, 11:25 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Mota View Post
Trading Carle makes a lot of sense. With the way Mez has played, the Flyers would still have the best top 4 D core in the league...and I think guys like Bart, Gust, and Syvret deserve a real shot at making the team next year. I am sure there is a vet D out there that they could get cheap to replace Odonnell too.

With Carle's salary and the cap increase, they could hopefully resign Leino and maybe even go out an sign another vet winger (Gagne, Hejduk, Cole etc).
Which puts the organization exactly where it was the previous year, with four legit guys to handle minutes and a weak 3rd pairing. IF Homer's objective was to get two guys on the back end to take minutes from Pronger and Timonen bringing in any of the players you suggested is a setback unless you have someone like Meszaros who can take 3rd pairing minutes, which if you move Carle takes away that possibility.

So the potential solution is to lose some scoring depth up front, and be a more aggressive team defensively and not be so focused on trying to stack eight 20 goal scorers on the roster.

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04-11-2011, 11:31 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Depends if you want to develop Bob, or just move on. Bryzgalov isn't going to come in here and split time with Bob.
If you bring in Bryzgalov he is your starter, no questions asked, but having Bobrovsky in the wings getting his games and learning more about the NA game is certainly a good way to develop a 22 y/o goalie who is still having some growing pains. Bryzgalov gives this team a chance to win TODAY, Boborovsky and Eriksson are the futures, unless Bobrovsky comes in and runs off 16 wins over the next month+.

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04-11-2011, 11:39 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
If you bring in Bryzgalov he is your starter, no questions asked, but having Bobrovsky in the wings getting his games and learning more about the NA game is certainly a good way to develop a 22 y/o goalie who is still having some growing pains. Bryzgalov gives this team a chance to win TODAY, Boborovsky and Eriksson are the futures, unless Bobrovsky comes in and runs off 16 wins over the next month+.
Bryzgalov is only 30 right now... if you're looking for "win now" and short term enough that it makes sense relative to Bob, Vokoun makes more sense. Even then, Bob is the best young goalie I can remember in recent memory, part of me would prefer to find out how good he can be than start pushing down on his reps.

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04-11-2011, 11:42 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Bryzgalov is only 30 right now... if you're looking for "win now" and short term enough that it makes sense relative to Bob, Vokoun makes more sense. Even then, Bob is the best young goalie I can remember in recent memory, part of me would prefer to find out how good he can be than start pushing down on his reps.
Vokoun in the last couple of seasons would have made more sense but now he's starting to show some physical wear and tear from all the seasons of facing thousands of shots. His back is giving him problems. If you can get him cheap then yeah would take the risk.

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04-11-2011, 11:43 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Bryzgalov is only 30 right now... if you're looking for "win now" and short term enough that it makes sense relative to Bob, Vokoun makes more sense. Even then, Bob is the best young goalie I can remember in recent memory, part of me would prefer to find out how good he can be than start pushing down on his reps.
I sort of disagree a little on this with you Jester. You're right in what you stated but if we have a chance to grab Bryzgalov then I'm all for that.

Winning the Cup now takes precedence over every other thing. If that means getting Bryzgalov and winning the Cup now then screw Bob's reps.

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04-11-2011, 11:45 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
I sort of disagree a little on this with you Jester. You're right in what you stated but if we have a chance to grab Bryzgalov then I'm all for that.

Winning the Cup now takes precedence over every other thing. If that means getting Bryzgalov and winning the Cup now then screw Bob's reps.
Swapping Bob for Bryz will have only limited impact on improving this team unless you expect Bob to crater.

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04-11-2011, 11:50 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Swapping Bob for Bryz will have only limited impact on improving this team unless you expect Bob to crater.
OK but what do you mean by "limited impact"?

For example, if we had Bryz at the beginning of the season, could the case be made that we would have won the president's trophy and were the clear favorites to win the Cup? If it can then that would be a bit more than just "limited impact" wouldn't it?

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04-11-2011, 11:53 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
OK but what do you mean by "limited impact"?

For example, if we had Bryz at the beginning of the season, could the case be made that we would have won the president's trophy and were the clear favorites to win the Cup? If it can then that would be a bit more than just "limited impact" wouldn't it?
I don't really care about the President's Trophy, do you? Would much prefer a Stanley Cup, and unless Bob regresses there isn't a huge difference there. Would I prefer Bryz? Yes. The justification, however, cannot be based on any assumption that he will represent a huge boost to the team's playoff chances if Bob plays to the level he's shown.

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04-11-2011, 12:00 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I don't really care about the President's Trophy, do you? Would much prefer a Stanley Cup, and unless Bob regresses there isn't a huge difference there. Would I prefer Bryz? Yes. The justification, however, cannot be based on any assumption that he will represent a huge boost to the team's playoff chances if Bob plays to the level he's shown.
No, I don't care about the president's trophy one bit.

You're making an assumption also that Bob will play to the level he's shown at times this year aren't you?

It's a very big IF and on a team who's biggest weakness (and some would argue only weakness) is goaltending, you're taking chances.

Bryz is a proven Stanley Cup winner. Bob is a rookie.

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04-11-2011, 12:07 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
No, I don't care about the president's trophy one bit.

You're making an assumption also that Bob will play to the level he's shown at times this year aren't you?

It's a very big IF and on a team who's biggest weakness (and some would argue only weakness) is goaltending, you're taking chances.

Bryz is a proven Stanley Cup winner. Bob is a rookie.
Bryz has played 23 career playoff games... and in his first stint as "the man" he lost in the first round and didn't play all that great.

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04-11-2011, 12:25 PM
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Bryz has played 23 career playoff games... and in his first stint as "the man" he lost in the first round and didn't play all that great.
OK but compare that with Bob who was pulled from the game against the islanders with the division title on the line.

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04-11-2011, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Bryz has played 23 career playoff games... and in his first stint as "the man" he lost in the first round and didn't play all that great.
Bryz also has the playoff shutout streak record doesn't he?


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OK but compare that with Bob who was pulled from the game against the islanders with the division title on the line.
Playing in the 2nd of B2B games he let in a breakway goal, a 5 on 3 PP goal and a net scramble goal.

Laviolette said he pulled him to wake the guys in front of him up

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04-11-2011, 12:32 PM
  #71
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Bryz has played 23 career playoff games... and in his first stint as "the man" he lost in the first round and didn't play all that great.
Are you trying to say that Bryzgalov isn't really an upgrade to Bobrovsky?

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04-11-2011, 12:40 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Are you trying to say that Bryzgalov isn't really an upgrade to Bobrovsky?
No, he's certainly better than Bob. He is not, however, directly translatable to a Stanley Cup win... the marginal gain isn't THAT much. That is before getting into how good you think Bob could be.

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04-11-2011, 12:42 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Bryzgalov is only 30 right now... if you're looking for "win now" and short term enough that it makes sense relative to Bob, Vokoun makes more sense. Even then, Bob is the best young goalie I can remember in recent memory, part of me would prefer to find out how good he can be than start pushing down on his reps.
If you have the chance to get Bryzgalov you get him, a much better choice over Vokoun who will fall under a 35+ contract, bad choice. You win now and continue to see Bobrovsky continue to flourish, maybe even give him a full year in AHL at this point, just to work on the finer details of his game, he is still young and his first NHL experience. Boborvsky continues to flourish and be a better goaltender, plus Eriksson becomes a legit contender for the job you now have three guys capable of taking the job. I would rather have this depth over Bobrovsky, Boucher, and Leighton as my choices as it stands.

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04-11-2011, 12:45 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
If you have the chance to get Bryzgalov you get him, a much better choice over Vokoun who will fall under a 35+ contract, bad choice. You win now and continue to see Bobrovsky continue to flourish, maybe even give him a full year in AHL at this point, just to work on the finer details of his game, he is still young and his first NHL experience. Boborvsky continues to flourish and be a better goaltender, plus Eriksson becomes a legit contender for the job you now have three guys capable of taking the job. I would rather have this depth over Bobrovsky, Boucher, and Leighton as my choices as it stands.
Sticking Bob in the AHL at this point is a terrible idea. He's proven to be more than good enough for this level.

The 35+ contract aspect is one of the reasons I like Vokoun... the cost won't be high, and the length shouldn't be long.

Eriksson is a ways off... if ever.

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04-11-2011, 12:46 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
No, he's certainly better than Bob. He is not, however, directly translatable to a Stanley Cup win... the marginal gain isn't THAT much. That is before getting into how good you think Bob could be.
Quantify marginal? You said the same with Vokoun. I think both would be more than just marginal at this point. They are much more seasoned and used to facing lots of shots and being the difference in close games. Bob hasn't really shown that..nor Boucher except here and there..nothing consistent. This is why our D troubles of late are worrrying....

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