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Short leash for Lavi?

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Old
04-11-2011, 11:46 AM
  #26
CharlieGirl
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Come on, are you really serious? This has nothing to do with the coach and everything to do with the players. When are the fans going to actually look at the players and hold them accountable? Absolutely boggles my mind this type of thought process considering how things were under Stevens and Laviolette's coaching was a direct responsibility for the Flyers actually making the playoffs and then making it to the SCF's. This team was d-e-a-d in the water last season before Laviolette came into town.

Bottom line is if the players do not learn to play for the coach it may be a time for a new environment. Imagine what this crew would have acted like if Mike Keenan was here circa 1985? Mutiny.
The team was dead in the water last season because of Stevens' abilities to coach and formulate a plan. The wooden indian routine and distinct lack of any type of breakout plan (aka system) was his downfall.

Keenan's 1985 style wouldn't work for any team in any sport. Those days are long, long gone. Get used to it.

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04-11-2011, 11:50 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
So let's start discussing who we want in here after this year. I think we should give Berube a shot and bring back Stevens as an assistant.
So you think that discussing turning over the coach for players lack of effort is OK but calling out players for lack of effort is wrong? I am so confused by how people address accountability for this team.

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04-11-2011, 11:53 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
The team was dead in the water last season because of Stevens' abilities to coach and formulate a plan. The wooden indian routine and distinct lack of any type of breakout plan (aka system) was his downfall.

Keenan's 1985 style wouldn't work for any team in any sport. Those days are long, long gone. Get used to it.
And the players quit. It was as clear as day. There are some bad teams in the NHL who win on effort alone, this team was losing 10 games in a row with talent!!!!

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04-11-2011, 11:53 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
IMO anything less than a SCF appearance and he should be gone. This team is better than last year and they are easily the best team in the East. It's up to Lavi to bring them back to the finals.
I think anything less than a SCF appearance is disappointing, but there is a reason why few runners up make it back to the Finals the next year. I certainly won't be blaming Lavi if they fail to make it there unless he makes some really questionable decisions.

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04-11-2011, 11:54 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
So you think that discussing turning over the coach for players lack of effort is OK but calling out players for lack of effort is wrong? I am so confused by how people address accountability for this team.
I'm a little concerned. I agree with you.

I'm very glad Lavi is the coach of the Flyers, and his ability to make adjustments during the game, motivate his team, and his uncanny knack for calling timeouts at exactly the right time make me as happy today as they did the day he was hired.

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04-11-2011, 11:56 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
And the players quit. It was as clear as day. There are some bad teams in the NHL who win on effort alone, this team was losing 10 games in a row with talent!!!!
Okay, now we're back to normal.

You can call it quit. I didn't see a lot of lack of effort, but I did see a lot of **** luck and lack of attention to details (i.e. passes just off the mark enough to kill any rushes).

I don't believe for a moment that this team quit. Other than maybe Richards and Carter, of course.

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04-11-2011, 11:59 AM
  #32
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If Lavi does get canned I would like to see Ted Nolan behind the bench... I don't think he'll get canned, nor do I want him too.

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04-11-2011, 12:00 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
So we should gut a young team 2nd in the conference that just made the SCF just because the coach is insane? I'd rather get rid of Lavi if he's driving them into the ground than ship out the core of the team.
The core of the team who with different coaches has finished the season in similar fashion, unable to control their own destiny until the last day of the season? A team who has been inconsistent under Stevens and Laviolette, two totally different personalities and how they coach. If a team is that good to make it to the SCF's one season, finish 2nd in the EC even though they tanked the last 20 games or so, and then not be able to get the job done on the ice the following year it seems to me that the finger has to be back on the players, not the coach.

It is the inmates running the asylum by insinuating that the caoch gets shipped over a player.

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04-11-2011, 12:03 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
I'm a little concerned. I agree with you.

I'm very glad Lavi is the coach of the Flyers, and his ability to make adjustments during the game, motivate his team, and his uncanny knack for calling timeouts at exactly the right time make me as happy today as they did the day he was hired.
Stevens was just an inexperienced NHL coach, but the players liked playing for him. After the boat cruise and fishing trip I knew he lost this team, I actualyl felt bad for him.

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04-11-2011, 12:08 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
So let's start discussing who we want in here after this year. I think we should give Berube a shot and bring back Stevens as an assistant.
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Originally Posted by HoverCarle View Post
Maybe Stevens has learned some things in LA and will be ready for a head coaching job here.

Or maybe Cory CLouston from Ottawa, always liked him
**** those re treads. Two words:

Peter Deboer

He had Richards for his formative years in Kitchener. If there's one coach that can hold him accountable it's him. If we get Deboer, maybe Richards can keep the C.

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04-11-2011, 12:09 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Stevens was just an inexperienced NHL coach, but the players liked playing for him. After the boat cruise and fishing trip I knew he lost this team, I actualyl felt bad for him.
He should never have been put in the position of head coach when Hitch was jettisoned. He's the ultimate 'good cop' to a head coach 'bad cop' routine and I'd have really liked to see him have worked with Hitch longer. He was in over his head as a head coach from almost day 1.

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04-11-2011, 12:10 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Okay, now we're back to normal.

You can call it quit. I didn't see a lot of lack of effort, but I did see a lot of **** luck and lack of attention to details (i.e. passes just off the mark enough to kill any rushes).

I don't believe for a moment that this team quit. Other than maybe Richards and Carter, of course.
Ten game losing streaks have nothing to do with luck. I looked at the schedule at the end of last season and noted they had two stretches where they lost five games or more, three or four times of a four game losing streak, @five times where they lost three in a row. I am making these up off the top of my head but they are pretty accurate I believe.

This is a team who going back over the last couple years has relied on a shootout win to make the playoffs, losing home ice to the Pens with a last regular season game to the Rangers, and having to make it to the last game of the season to get the #2 seed because they had already given up the #1 seed(no big deal IMO and they probably got the better matchup).

As fans I just honestly feel that we as fans need to be honest when evaluating players and what role do they play on a team who should be in the SCF's this season if they underperform.

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04-11-2011, 12:11 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Ri hards View Post
**** those re treads. Two words:

Peter Deboer

He had Richards for his formative years in Kitchener. If there's one coach that can hold him accountable it's him. If we get Deboer, maybe Richards can keep the C.
I would love to see Pete come in as an assistant working under Lavi, running the D and PP.

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04-11-2011, 12:13 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
He should never have been put in the position of head coach when Hitch was jettisoned. He's the ultimate 'good cop' to a head coach 'bad cop' routine and I'd have really liked to see him have worked with Hitch longer. He was in over his head as a head coach from almost day 1.
Phantoms won with him in the AHL, he also had the team make it to the ECF's. He had success, regardless of his position as good cop/bad cop.

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04-11-2011, 12:14 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by dingbathero View Post
If Lavi does get canned I would like to see Ted Nolan behind the bench... I don't think he'll get canned, nor do I want him too.
Screw that. IF this team comes up short and part of it is due to lack of getting the job done on the ice they can fire Laviolette......and have Homer as the coach, with Tocchet and Keenan as the assistant coaches. Love to see the faces on the players then.

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04-11-2011, 12:14 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Ten game losing streaks have nothing to do with luck. I looked at the schedule at the end of last season and noted they had two stretches where they lost five games or more, three or four times of a four game losing streak, @five times where they lost three in a row. I am making these up off the top of my head but they are pretty accurate I believe.

This is a team who going back over the last couple years has relied on a shootout win to make the playoffs, losing home ice to the Pens with a last regular season game to the Rangers, and having to make it to the last game of the season to get the #2 seed because they had already given up the #1 seed(no big deal IMO and they probably got the better matchup).

As fans I just honestly feel that we as fans need to be honest when evaluating players and what role do they play on a team who should be in the SCF's this season if they underperform.
Vancouver had a bit of a slide near the end of the season. They lost to friggen Edmonton, for God's sake. Do you think their fans are pissing and moaning about it? Is it the players' fault there? Or is it an end of the season letdown in advance of the playoffs?

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04-11-2011, 12:14 PM
  #42
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I sure hope he is not gone. Who is going to replace him? Coatsey?

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04-11-2011, 12:16 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Screw that. IF this team comes up short and part of it is due to lack of getting the job done on the ice they can fire Laviolette......and have Homer as the coach, with Tocchet and Keenan as the assistant coaches. Love to see the faces on the players then.
If Tocchet and Keenan are so good, why don't either of them have coaching jobs?

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04-11-2011, 12:30 PM
  #44
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Vancouver had a bit of a slide near the end of the season. They lost to friggen Edmonton, for God's sake. Do you think their fans are pissing and moaning about it? Is it the players' fault there? Or is it an end of the season letdown in advance of the playoffs?
During the month of March Vancouver was 13-2, the extent of poor play is not even close in comparison.

2-2 in April, so over their last 19 games the Canucks were 15-4. Again, I jsut want fans to be realistic about how this team has played and that it is not on the coach for the players on the ice to perform and get the job done by executing the system.

Flyers in March over their last 15 games were 6-9, and over the last five games 1-4, so over the last twenty they were 7-13(forget the shootout points for this).

Look over the last three season and they have a below .500 record to finish off the regular season.

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04-11-2011, 12:34 PM
  #45
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If Tocchet and Keenan are so good, why don't either of them have coaching jobs?
You are missing the point, both Keenan and Tocchet(not as much, but wore the O&B with respect) are guys who are considered hard on the players, Laviolette would seem like a walk in the park. I am trying to show that these kids have no idea how actually lucky they are with Laviolette.

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04-11-2011, 12:36 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
During the month of March Vancouver was 13-2, the extent of poor play is not even close in comparison.

2-2 in April, so over their last 19 games the Canucks were 15-4. Again, I jsut want fans to be realistic about how this team has played and that it is not on the coach for the players on the ice to perform and get the job done by executing the system.

Flyers in March over their last 15 games were 6-9, and over the last five games 1-4, so over the last twenty they were 7-13(forget the shootout points for this).

Look over the last three season and they have a below .500 record to finish off the regular season.
When was the last time the Flyers had a good run in March? I don't recall one happening lately.

I'm not trying to say that I wouldn't be happier if the Flyers had been kicking ass all the way along. Since the all-star break, there has been a noticeable difference. Is that because Pronger has been out? Probably part of it, but certainly not the biggest reason. Is that because the Flyers don't give a ****? I'll argue with you on that one all day.

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04-11-2011, 12:37 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Screw that. IF this team comes up short and part of it is due to lack of getting the job done on the ice they can fire Laviolette......and have Homer as the coach, with Tocchet and Keenan as the assistant coaches. Love to see the faces on the players then.
ouch...the Flyers might as well be all placed in a federal penitentiary with rapists and serial killers....

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04-11-2011, 12:39 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
The core of the team who with different coaches has finished the season in similar fashion, unable to control their own destiny until the last day of the season? A team who has been inconsistent under Stevens and Laviolette, two totally different personalities and how they coach. If a team is that good to make it to the SCF's one season, finish 2nd in the EC even though they tanked the last 20 games or so, and then not be able to get the job done on the ice the following year it seems to me that the finger has to be back on the players, not the coach.

It is the inmates running the asylum by insinuating that the caoch gets shipped over a player.
As I've said before, for someone who preaches that the regular season doesn't matter when it comes to individual stats, you're pretty hung up on how the team performs in the regular season.

If by 'finish the season in similar fashion' you mean two trips to the Eastern Conference Final (with a Stanley Cup Final appearance) in two of the last three seasons, then, yes, the team does finish the season in a similar fashion.

If Jeff Carter's nearly 0.5 goals/game rate in the regular season (for the last few seasons) doesn't matter to you, neither should the team's performance heading into the playoffs... as long as there are results in the playoffs.

But, sure, continue to slag on them before any playoff games have been played.

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04-11-2011, 12:39 PM
  #49
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You are missing the point, both Keenan and Tocchet(not as much, but wore the O&B with respect) are guys who are considered hard on the players, Laviolette would seem like a walk in the park. I am trying to show that these kids have no idea how actually lucky they are with Laviolette.
Not really..they were lucky with Stevens who took them out for ice cream and threw slumber parties....

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04-11-2011, 12:39 PM
  #50
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Cartsiephan, the criticism and praise goes both ways. You can't praise Lavi for turning around the team and give the players so credit and then blame the players for sucking the last few months and not blame anything on Lavi. He turned the team around last year, no question but this year he's lost them. It's a lot easier to replace a coach than entire core of a young team.

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