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Short leash for Lavi?

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Old
04-11-2011, 12:45 PM
  #51
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Guys,

We are less than 4 days away from beginning our 2011 Stanley Cup Playoffs and beginning our quest to a return to the SCF and here we are, all of us fans of the same team, arguing over whether our coach is going to get fired?

To quote (or paraphrase to be sure) the great Vince Lombardi:

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON IN HERE?!


Last edited by ShotScore*: 04-11-2011 at 12:52 PM.
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Old
04-11-2011, 12:45 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
So let's start discussing who we want in here after this year. I think we should give Berube a shot and bring back Stevens as an assistant.
why dont we just bring back Bill Barber while we are at it too

because it would be Laviolette's fault if our goaltending lets us down again.

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04-11-2011, 12:46 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
Cartsiephan, the criticism and praise goes both ways. You can't praise Lavi for turning around the team and give the players so credit and then blame the players for sucking the last few months and not blame anything on Lavi. He turned the team around last year, no question but this year he's lost them. It's a lot easier to replace a coach than entire core of a young team.
I'd rather see them all go. I never cared for Lavi's style. He got lucky with that Cup win. The team is trashy too. Our captain should not be a captain. Our defense is incredibly old and slow and not nearly as good as anyone thinks they are. Dont even get me started on high and wide carter, or giroux's inability to shoot when he has excellent scoring chances. Not to mention our below average goaltending.

Maybe there are a few highly skilled guys that we could keep around like Zherdev that would work with a new coach.

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04-11-2011, 12:49 PM
  #54
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Some pretty blatant baiting going on in this thread.

Tip to new guys: don't get roped in.

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04-11-2011, 12:50 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Some pretty blatant baiting going on in this thread.

Tip to new guys: don't get roped in.
I prefer the term "Fished in", from Wayne's World.

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04-11-2011, 12:50 PM
  #56
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When was the last time the Flyers had a good run in March? I don't recall one happening lately.
The Flyers have never had good runs in March and this goes back to the Lindros era. We're talking at least 15-16 years.

I don't think Laviolette is on a short leash in Philadelphia. He's a good coach and it's not his fault that the power play tanked or that Kris Versteeg is the second coming of Kyle Calder. Let's face it - this is Holmgren's team. While most coaches usually have some say in the personnel, I think Laviolette has basically been given a team and told win with what is here.

I honestly think if the Flyers fail this time around, it's going to be Holmgren who will be on the short leash. After all, this was the guy back in 06-07 who sat with Ed Snider and said they wouldn't deal players or picks for older talent and that they were going to draft and build talent that way. Then Holmgren started spending like a drunken sailor and started dealing draft picks like they were candy. Can't blame Laviolette for that......

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04-11-2011, 12:51 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
Guys,

We are less than 4 days away from beginning our 2011 Stanley Cup Playoffs and beginning our quest to a return to the SCF and here we are, all of us fans of the same team, arguing over whether our coach is going to get fired?

To quote (or paraphrase to be sure) the great Vince Lombardi:

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON IN HERE!
It's a fair point of discussion.

This team was horrible over the stretch. If it continues and they get bounced early, something's gotta give.

That's a very, very big 'if,' though.

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04-11-2011, 12:53 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
The Flyers have never had good runs in March and this goes back to the Lindros era. We're talking at least 15-16 years.

I don't think Laviolette is on a short leash in Philadelphia. He's a good coach and it's not his fault that the power play tanked or that Kris Versteeg is the second coming of Kyle Calder. Let's face it - this is Holmgren's team. While most coaches usually have some say in the personnel, I think Laviolette has basically been given a team and told win with what is here.

I honestly think if the Flyers fail this time around, it's going to be Holmgren who will be on the short leash. After all, this was the guy back in 06-07 who sat with Ed Snider and said they wouldn't deal players or picks for older talent and that they were going to draft and build talent that way. Then Holmgren started spending like a drunken sailor and started dealing draft picks like they were candy. Can't blame Laviolette for that......
Versteeg = Calder God I hope not!

Holmgren is Snider's boy and isn't going nowhere although I do think he should def not be unaccountable. Sadly Lavy as middle management is the most vulnerable.

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04-11-2011, 12:53 PM
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When was the last time the Flyers had a good run in March? I don't recall one happening lately.

I'm not trying to say that I wouldn't be happier if the Flyers had been kicking ass all the way along. Since the all-star break, there has been a noticeable difference. Is that because Pronger has been out? Probably part of it, but certainly not the biggest reason. Is that because the Flyers don't give a ****? I'll argue with you on that one all day.
So, since we have an agreement on the history where does this fall? On the players or the coach? And let me just go back down memeory lane, on March 17th to the present the coach addressed the practice issues and basically stopped the conditioning stints he was doing, and then look at the record.

I pray on Kate Smith's grave that this team figures it out and they compete in the playoffs, but if for any reason besides the coach being the reason for a game 7 flop or totally being outcoached, this falls on the guys who put on the jersey's and put forth the effort each night.

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04-11-2011, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
It's a fair point of discussion.

This team was horrible over the stretch. If it continues and they get bounced early, something's gotta give.

That's a very, very big 'if,' though.
Wow. And I thought I was being negative.

Holy Cow.

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04-11-2011, 12:57 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
So, since we have an agreement on the history where does this fall? On the players or the coach? And let me just go back down memeory lane, on March 17th to the present the coach addressed the practice issues and basically stopped the conditioning stints he was doing, and then look at the record.

I pray on Kate Smith's grave that this team figures it out and they compete in the playoffs, but if for any reason besides the coach being the reason for a game 7 flop or totally being outcoached, this falls on the guys who put on the jersey's and put forth the effort each night.
So... for 15 or 16 years the Flyers have had a ****** March. That covers numerous coaches, hundreds of player changes, and a couple of GM's.

What is your excuse now?

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04-11-2011, 12:57 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
So... for 15 or 16 years the Flyers have had a ****** March. That covers numerous coaches, hundreds of player changes, and a couple of GM's.

What is your excuse now?
Clearly something in the water.

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04-11-2011, 12:58 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
So... for 15 or 16 years the Flyers have had a ****** March. That covers numerous coaches, hundreds of player changes, and a couple of GM's.

What is your excuse now?
It's our fault! Change the entire fanbase now damnit.

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04-11-2011, 01:00 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Ten game losing streaks have nothing to do with luck. I looked at the schedule at the end of last season and noted they had two stretches where they lost five games or more, three or four times of a four game losing streak, @five times where they lost three in a row. I am making these up off the top of my head but they are pretty accurate I believe.

This is a team who going back over the last couple years has relied on a shootout win to make the playoffs, losing home ice to the Pens with a last regular season game to the Rangers, and having to make it to the last game of the season to get the #2 seed because they had already given up the #1 seed(no big deal IMO and they probably got the better matchup).

As fans I just honestly feel that we as fans need to be honest when evaluating players and what role do they play on a team who should be in the SCF's this season if they underperform.
that season was on Holmgren as well. He really did one of the worst jobs possible managing the salary cap. he had to put 2 valuable role players on waivers and had to put Giroux down in the AHL just to get under the cap when Briere came back. Then there is having to use 2 ATO guys that weekend against the Rangers. I dont know if you can put that one all on the players.
Last year was just dumb luck that we made the playoffs. If Tortorella puts Gaborik in the shootout instead of Jokinen, we are probably lose the shootout, miss the playoffs and are looking at different looking team.

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04-11-2011, 01:02 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
As I've said before, for someone who preaches that the regular season doesn't matter when it comes to individual stats, you're pretty hung up on how the team performs in the regular season.

If by 'finish the season in similar fashion' you mean two trips to the Eastern Conference Final (with a Stanley Cup Final appearance) in two of the last three seasons, then, yes, the team does finish the season in a similar fashion.

If Jeff Carter's nearly 0.5 goals/game rate in the regular season (for the last few seasons) doesn't matter to you, neither should the team's performance heading into the playoffs... as long as there are results in the playoffs.

But, sure, continue to slag on them before any playoff games have been played.
No, the discussion about JC is that while he has been a guy who can be counted on in the regular season his role dimishes when he does not score in the playoffs and his "clutch" goals disappear.

Individual versus team is not a fair comparison, especially in this conversation where someone wants to fire the coach for the teams lack of performance.

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04-11-2011, 01:02 PM
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that season was on Holmgren as well. He really did one of the worst jobs possible managing the salary cap. he had to put 2 valuable role players on waivers and had to put Giroux down in the AHL just to get under the cap when Briere came back. Then there is having to use 2 ATO guys that weekend against the Rangers. I dont know if you can put that one all on the players.
Last year was just dumb luck that we made the playoffs. If Tortorella puts Gaborik in the shootout instead of Jokinen, we are probably lose the shootout, miss the playoffs and are looking at different looking team.
Dont forget trading Upshall AND a 2nd for Carcillo

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04-11-2011, 01:04 PM
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Dont forget trading Upshall AND a 2nd for Carcillo


Still gives me heartburn. Such a bad deal then. Such a bad deal now.

One of these days when I'm bored, I'm going to go look up all the people who told me I was being negative and that I'd love Carcillo. We just needed to see him play. Oh, and the people who said he'd score 20-25 goals, easily.

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04-11-2011, 01:05 PM
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Dont forget trading Upshall AND a 2nd for Carcillo
Insert nexium in mouth....

What also didn't help was losing Metro who was good on the draws...we got owned in the playoffs on that count.

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04-11-2011, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
So... for 15 or 16 years the Flyers have had a ****** March. That covers numerous coaches, hundreds of player changes, and a couple of GM's.

What is your excuse now?
The problem is, and has been, that the coach has been the fall guy. This team has all the talent and no excuses. We are talking about this team and the now, we already know that no team since 1975 has been good enough to win the SCF's so that is kind of a moot point when we are talking about the current players on the roster's inability to get the job done, not the past players.

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04-11-2011, 01:06 PM
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Insert nexium in mouth....

What also didn't help was losing Metro who was good on the draws...we got owned in the playoffs on that count.
Yep. And Kukkonen, who was a shot blocking machine.

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04-11-2011, 01:07 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post


Still gives me heartburn. Such a bad deal then. Such a bad deal now.

One of these days when I'm bored, I'm going to go look up all the people who told me I was being negative and that I'd love Carcillo. We just needed to see him play. Oh, and the people who said he'd score 20-25 goals, easily.
I was told I would love Shelley too. It was a good time.


I forgot a 2nd was involved with the Carcillo trade as well...ugh.

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04-11-2011, 01:07 PM
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04-11-2011, 01:09 PM
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Wow. And I thought I was being negative.

Holy Cow.
Are you kidding me, or are you just thick?

This whole thing is based on a hypothetical situation in which the players continue to play as poorly as they did over the stretch run. I never said that would happen, but if it were to happen, it's entirely reasonable to think that someone's head is gonna roll for that. IF that were even to happen.


I personally think this team is capable of going far. I think it's also possible, if they don't execute their game, that they go earlier than expected.

It's far more probable that they have a good run, but with the way they've been since the All-Star break, nothing is certain.

With the expectations placed on this organization right now, it's fair to wonder what the repercussions of failure will be. There's nothing negative about discussing possible outcomes.

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04-11-2011, 01:09 PM
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If they can't take how Lavi has treated them this year, than the core of this team shouldn't be playing professional hockey.
THIS, period.

I think it's pathetic if this team can't get their **** together because of coaching. I almost feel as if the core of this team got a little too spoiled under the previous coaching staff.

I think a coach like Lavi is exactly what's needed here.

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04-11-2011, 01:10 PM
  #75
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Still gives me heartburn. Such a bad deal then. Such a bad deal now.

One of these days when I'm bored, I'm going to go look up all the people who told me I was being negative and that I'd love Carcillo. We just needed to see him play. Oh, and the people who said he'd score 20-25 goals, easily.
I was told 50 points from one guy. Swear. Every season since then, Ive been waiting for it.

But I can say that, other then really 2 or 3 people (and we all know who one of these people are) most agree he shouldnt be even close to the top 9 on the team.

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