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Short leash for Lavi?

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Old
04-11-2011, 12:10 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
that season was on Holmgren as well. He really did one of the worst jobs possible managing the salary cap. he had to put 2 valuable role players on waivers and had to put Giroux down in the AHL just to get under the cap when Briere came back. Then there is having to use 2 ATO guys that weekend against the Rangers. I dont know if you can put that one all on the players.
Last year was just dumb luck that we made the playoffs. If Tortorella puts Gaborik in the shootout instead of Jokinen, we are probably lose the shootout, miss the playoffs and are looking at different looking team.
Come on, you win one game and you win. Yes Homer screwed up the cap and had to play a kid who's dad has a tight tie with the organization and owns some dealerships in the area, but they should have won that game. When do we stop acting like the players are not accountable?


And BTW, the last 10 games.....4-6, losses to: Ranger(2x, last game at HOME), Sens, Leafs, Bruins, and Panthers.


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Old
04-11-2011, 12:14 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
No, the discussion about JC is that while he has been a guy who can be counted on in the regular season his role dimishes when he does not score in the playoffs and his "clutch" goals disappear.

Individual versus team is not a fair comparison, especially in this conversation where someone wants to fire the coach for the teams lack of performance.
Those same criticisms of Carter have appeared during the regular season in the past, as well: If Carter can't score, he's useless. That's total ********, as Carter has continued to improve in all areas. Even at the beginning of this season he looked lost playing the wing; now he even looks comfortable. You act like Carter has an inability to learn or mature.

A team functions based on individual performances, so I'm not sure why you believe it's an unfair comparison.

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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
The problem is, and has been, that the coach has been the fall guy. This team has all the talent and no excuses. We are talking about this team and the now, we already know that no team since 1975 has been good enough to win the SCF's so that is kind of a moot point when we are talking about the current players on the roster's inability to get the job done, not the past players.
You continue to talk about this team not getting the job done when the season is far from over. Why not let the results play out and then criticize if it's warranted?

The only job they haven't accomplished this season is winning the Cup... and that opportunity doesn't begin until Game 1 against Buffalo.

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04-11-2011, 12:15 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Are you kidding me, or are you just thick?

This whole thing is based on a hypothetical situation in which the players continue to play as poorly as they did over the stretch run. I never said that would happen, but if it were to happen, it's entirely reasonable to think that someone's head is gonna roll for that. IF that were even to happen.


I personally think this team is capable of going far. I think it's also possible, if they don't execute their game, that they go earlier than expected.

It's far more probable that they have a good run, but with the way they've been since the All-Star break, nothing is certain.

With the expectations placed on this organization right now, it's fair to wonder what the repercussions of failure will be. There's nothing negative about discussing possible outcomes.
Yes I understand your point entirely.

It's that, for me, even bringing up a hypothetical situation envisioning Lavi getting fired, is a bit too much and a little too negative. Even for me.

Especially coming at a time when we should be looking to the playoffs with some sort of optimism.

Kind of like spring training in baseball to a much lesser extent. Every team in spring training feels like they can win it and so do their fans.

We should be feeling like that right now imo.

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04-11-2011, 12:15 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
The problem is, and has been, that the coach has been the fall guy. This team has all the talent and no excuses. We are talking about this team and the now, we already know that no team since 1975 has been good enough to win the SCF's so that is kind of a moot point when we are talking about the current players on the roster's inability to get the job done, not the past players.
Nicely done. Pretty much what I expected.

So, despite history showing that the Flyers (and I'd guess a lot of teams that have locked up a playoff berth) have a letdown in March before playoffs, it's the players who suck and need a kick in the ass? Which players exactly? Primeau? How about Brindy? Or Lindros?

Could it be that there is a dip in mental focus near the end of a long season?

Oh wait, history doesn't matter. Except when we're talking about 4 or 5 years ago when Richards and Carter were rookies, right?

Make up your mind.

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04-11-2011, 12:16 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
When was the last time the Flyers had a good run in March? I don't recall one happening lately.
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Originally Posted by HoverCarle View Post
Dont forget trading Upshall AND a 2nd for Carcillo
yeah there was that, of course that would of sent me into a rant that probably would of made me lose my train of thought.

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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Yep. And Kukkonen, who was a shot blocking machine.
Well Stevens refused to play him. He decided that Randy Jones was a better option.
Metropolit and Ossi Vaaanen were the 2 players waived for those scoring at home. Yeah who needed depth players when you had studs like Randy Jones on the back end.

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04-11-2011, 12:17 PM
  #81
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Oh geez we're back to Carter....

Anyway...Lavy will be on a short leash if

1) We suffer a 1st round upset

2) The malaise experienced in the last couple of months and a potential 1st round ouster extends into next season

Then yeah..he's got problems whether warranted or not.

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04-11-2011, 12:17 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
yeah there was that, of course that would of sent me into a rant that probably would of made me lose my train of thought.



Well Stevens refused to play him. He decided that Randy Jones was a better option.
Metropolit and Ossi Vaaanen were the 2 players waived for those scoring at home. Yeah who needed depth players when you had studs like Randy Jones on the back end.
Aaah, I sit corrected. It was Vaananen that was waived. Also a stupid move.

My favourite was when Stevens had Kukkonen in the pressbox and then whined that no one blocked shots.

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04-11-2011, 12:18 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Make up your mind.
In assuming it has a mind capable of anything but obsession with Jeff Carter, you are giving it too much credit.

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04-11-2011, 12:19 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I forgot a 2nd was involved with the Carcillo trade as well...ugh.
What's worse is that we'll see this year what that 2nd could have brought the Flyers. Not that Homer would have held onto it, but just for ***** and giggles.

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04-11-2011, 12:20 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Come on, you win one game and you win. Yes Homer screwed up the cap and had to play a kid who's dad has a tight tie with the organization and owns some dealerships in the area, but they should have won that game. When do we stop acting like the players are not accountable?.
go back and read my post. I said Holmgren as well needs to be held accountable. Not just Holmgren. He like everyone else that season needs to be held accountable. The players, Stevens, Holmgren. EVERYONE

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04-11-2011, 12:21 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Aaah, I sit corrected. It was Vaananen that was waived. Also a stupid move.

My favourite was when Stevens had Kukkonen in the pressbox and then whined that no one blocked shots.
Kukkonen's problem was mostly that he wasn't physical enough...he was good at covering his tracks after an initial screwup but overall he didn't contribute to the flow of the game with breakouts etc.

Ossi and Metro would have helped immensely with depth but it all got screwey when Briere had to come back who wasn't 100% anyway and to fit Giroux in....

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04-11-2011, 12:21 PM
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Guys stop whining about the Carcillo trade. The pick amounts to essentially a 3rd round pick and this years draft is incredibly weak.

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04-11-2011, 12:21 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Insert nexium in mouth....

What also didn't help was losing Metro who was good on the draws...we got owned in the playoffs on that count.
Metro was below 50% on faceoffs with the Flyers and has been under 50% since leaving iirc. He's also around 40% In 20 playoff games since leaving.

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04-11-2011, 12:23 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Villedelphia View Post
Guys stop whining about the Carcillo trade. The pick amounts to essentially a 3rd round pick and this years draft is incredibly weak.
I will never accept that it was a good idea. Sorry.

Back to Lavi though...

I don't imagine he's on a short leash after last year's unexpected ride, but an early exit this year and a slow start next year may tighten it.

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04-11-2011, 12:23 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Those same criticisms of Carter have appeared during the regular season in the past, as well: If Carter can't score, he's useless. That's total ********, as Carter has continued to improve in all areas. Even at the beginning of this season he looked lost playing the wing; now he even looks comfortable. You act like Carter has an inability to learn or mature.

A team functions based on individual performances, so I'm not sure why you believe it's an unfair comparison.
You know what, I am not going to have this debate now. We all know the opinions, now it is time for the players to show up and either prove the player evalautions wrong, or fall back into the same situation. We will see, but if Carter does not show up on the scoring sheet there is a list of a lot of playes I would prefer to see and bottom line he is needed and paid to score.



Quote:
You continue to talk about this team not getting the job done when the season is far from over. Why not let the results play out and then criticize if it's warranted?

The only job they haven't accomplished this season is winning the Cup... and that opportunity doesn't begin until Game 1 against Buffalo.

The converstaion was begun on "is Laviolette on a short leash" if they lose, and bottom line this is the time for the players to prove they belong in the playoffs. Coach already has his name on Lord Stanley's Cup.

My question back to you would be what do you feel as being a team failure? First round, quarters, semi's, or making the finals and no Cup?

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04-11-2011, 12:25 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
Metro was below 50% on faceoffs with the Flyers and has been under 50% since leaving iirc. He's also around 40% In 20 playoff games since leaving.
If that was so with the Flyers I don't recall..but my bad if that is the case. Nonetheless, I remember the players being upset that they lost him so he must have had some worth in that locker room and on the ice for that matter. He would have still helped with depth whether he was below 50% or not and IF that continued in the playoffs.

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04-11-2011, 12:26 PM
  #92
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Metro couldn't buy a goal here...

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04-11-2011, 12:28 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Nicely done. Pretty much what I expected.

So, despite history showing that the Flyers (and I'd guess a lot of teams that have locked up a playoff berth) have a letdown in March before playoffs, it's the players who suck and need a kick in the ass? Which players exactly? Primeau? How about Brindy? Or Lindros?

Could it be that there is a dip in mental focus near the end of a long season?

Oh wait, history doesn't matter. Except when we're talking about 4 or 5 years ago when Richards and Carter were rookies, right?

Make up your mind.

What are you talking about. We are talking about this team, the current roster, and the carryover of the players since 2006-07. Stop making excuses, other teams who go on to make Stanley Cup runs do not fall asleep at the wheel like this team has shown. With the previous experience, talent, and supposed leadership I expect more than a sub-500 record. When do they learn?

All I have heard over the last two months from fans is that they are "saving themselves", but when does that end, when the playoffs start? If so I think it is really sad that a fanbase has bought into this belief that teams can all of the sudden "flip the switch" and play at a higher level against teams who are just as skilled and just as good, but have perfected some of the little things to be better prepared for the post-season.

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04-11-2011, 12:29 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
IMO anything less than a SCF appearance and he should be gone.
Agreed.

We should let Lavi go as soon as possible if we don't make the Finals. That way we can make sure to lock up the next John Stevens.

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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
This team is better than last year and they are easily the best team in the East. It's up to Lavi to bring them back to the finals.
Good call. It's certainly not like the players have any responsibility to get back to the Finals.

Plus, I sure do miss the "system" the Flyers had in place before Lavi got here, not to mention the fact that he doesn't seem to like to bake cakes.

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04-11-2011, 12:29 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Villedelphia View Post
Guys stop whining about the Carcillo trade. The pick amounts to essentially a 3rd round pick and this years draft is incredibly weak.
I dont care. it was a horrible trade then and I still think its a horrible trade. i know people love Carcillo because of what he "brings" but that trade was inexcusable. If he wanted to trade Upshall fine. trade him for a prospect or a pick. Dont give away a draft pick and get a useless turd like Carcillo in return.

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04-11-2011, 12:29 PM
  #96
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Metro couldn't buy a goal here...
Maybe not but again the players saw worth in him...he's negligible now but he was doing pretty good in other areas of the ice (argument some make with Carter) if I recall correctly towards the end. He did well the following year for Montreal but yeah then he tailed off. My point is depth especially at Center (Holmgren's mantra ironically) is never a bad thing.

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04-11-2011, 12:32 PM
  #97
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go back and read my post. I said Holmgren as well needs to be held accountable. Not just Holmgren. He like everyone else that season needs to be held accountable. The players, Stevens, Holmgren. EVERYONE
At the end of the season I reevaluate Homer, during the season while they are playing outside of the trade deadline it is on the coach/players. Homer has and does mismanage but right now I think he put this team in a good position to win it all.

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04-11-2011, 12:33 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
At the end of the season I reevaluate Homer, during the season while they are playing outside of the trade deadline it is on the coach/players. Homer has and does mismanage but right now I think he put this team in a good position to win it all.
We have a chance, just as long as we dont rely on Carter burying empty netters and one-timers.

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04-11-2011, 12:39 PM
  #99
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Interesting stat:
Jeff Carter - 7 Game Winning Goals
Lavi - 0 Game Winning Goals

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04-11-2011, 12:42 PM
  #100
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Wow less clutch than Carter... Fire him.

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