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Old
04-11-2011, 11:54 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Quantify marginal? You said the same with Vokoun. I think both would be more than just marginal at this point. They are much more seasoned and used to facing lots of shots and being the difference in close games. Bob hasn't really shown that..nor Boucher except here and there..nothing consistent. This is why our D troubles of late are worrrying....
Bob has kept this Flyers team in more than a few games... so has Boucher, for that matter. We've gotten good goaltending this year. Are they All-Stars? No... but they've performed well for this club. Many of Bob's problems are stuff that will improve with experience and coaching (like, he should have come out and played that puck on the Grabner goal).

Bob posted a .915 this year, and I don't see why we shouldn't expect him to hold around that level if not improve. He's extremely quick down low, and definitely has a high compete level. There are holes, but they will improve... you also don't get used to the long season by not playing the long season.

Vokoun has been a solid .920ish guy for a slew of years now, Bryz has done it 3 of the last 4 years.

So, lets assume they post a .920 for us next year... I'm going to assume Bob posts a .915. Over an 82 game schedule, that matters a good bit... but it's only marginal. We allowed 2,468 SOG this year... .005 equates to 12 goals. Probably a few points in the standings.

When you transfer that to playoff expectations it's even further reduced as far as impact due to the randomness of small samples.

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04-11-2011, 11:57 AM
  #77
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I don't think there's anything wrong with bringing in a guy like Bryzgalov or Vokoun. Fact of the matter is that Bobrovsky could be the second coming of Brian Boucher or he could be the second coming of Martin Brodeur. Nobody knows. However, having someone who is a true number 1 doesn't hurt and no, it won't hurt Bob's development either. Remember that he can't speak a word of English and that this was Bob's first year working with a goaltender coach. If Bryzgalov or Vokoun come in, Bobrovsky benefits because he'll play 30 to 35 games and more important, he'll continue to learn English and get much needed one on one time with the goaltender coach. Hey, I'm a big Bob fan and have stated from the very beginning that the Flyers made the right choice in naming him the starter. With that being said, there are flaws in his game (serious flaws) that can be corrected with some coaching and game days off. Having a guy like Vokoun or Bryzgalov would certainly help with that.

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04-11-2011, 12:01 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Bob has kept this Flyers team in more than a few games... so has Boucher, for that matter. We've gotten good goaltending this year. Are they All-Stars? No... but they've performed well for this club. Many of Bob's problems are stuff that will improve with experience and coaching (like, he should have come out and played that puck on the Grabner goal).

Bob posted a .915 this year, and I don't see why we shouldn't expect him to hold around that level if not improve. He's extremely quick down low, and definitely has a high compete level. There are holes, but they will improve... you also don't get used to the long season by not playing the long season.

Vokoun has been a solid .920ish guy for a slew of years now, Bryz has done it 3 of the last 4 years.

So, lets assume they post a .920 for us next year... I'm going to assume Bob posts a .915. Over an 82 game schedule, that matters a good bit... but it's only marginal. We allowed 2,468 SOG this year... .005 equates to 12 goals. Probably a few points in the standings.

When you transfer that to playoff expectations it's even further reduced as far as impact due to the randomness of small samples.
While I agree we got good goaltending all year for the most part...it hasn't been outstanding. When the D is lax..good is not enough as we've seen the last couple of months. Good with a lax D means overtimes and shootout losses. Luckily the latter won't be a factor in the playoffs but I suspect a lot of OT's. If the Flyers tighten up the D the games will be close with good goaltending but the difference in winning a series is outstanding goaltending and goalies that can steal games and a series. Maybe Bob can do that and Boucher has shown he can do it for a series or two but the both of them are still suspect for the long haul. We shall see but I would have felt more than marginally comfortable with a goalie like Bryz or Vokoun or Tim Thomas for that matter...

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04-11-2011, 12:05 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Bob has kept this Flyers team in more than a few games... so has Boucher, for that matter. We've gotten good goaltending this year. Are they All-Stars? No... but they've performed well for this club. Many of Bob's problems are stuff that will improve with experience and coaching (like, he should have come out and played that puck on the Grabner goal).

Bob posted a .915 this year, and I don't see why we shouldn't expect him to hold around that level if not improve. He's extremely quick down low, and definitely has a high compete level. There are holes, but they will improve... you also don't get used to the long season by not playing the long season.

Vokoun has been a solid .920ish guy for a slew of years now, Bryz has done it 3 of the last 4 years.

So, lets assume they post a .920 for us next year... I'm going to assume Bob posts a .915. Over an 82 game schedule, that matters a good bit... but it's only marginal. We allowed 2,468 SOG this year... .005 equates to 12 goals. Probably a few points in the standings.

When you transfer that to playoff expectations it's even further reduced as far as impact due to the randomness of small samples.
Phoenix had an 8 game win streak this year where they averaged scoring less than 3 goals a game. Bryzgalov just basically put them on his back and carried them.

This is the real difference between great goaltending and merely good.

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04-11-2011, 12:06 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I don't think there's anything wrong with bringing in a guy like Bryzgalov or Vokoun. Fact of the matter is that Bobrovsky could be the second coming of Brian Boucher or he could be the second coming of Martin Brodeur. Nobody knows. However, having someone who is a true number 1 doesn't hurt and no, it won't hurt Bob's development either. Remember that he can't speak a word of English and that this was Bob's first year working with a goaltender coach. If Bryzgalov or Vokoun come in, Bobrovsky benefits because he'll play 30 to 35 games and more important, he'll continue to learn English and get much needed one on one time with the goaltender coach. Hey, I'm a big Bob fan and have stated from the very beginning that the Flyers made the right choice in naming him the starter. With that being said, there are flaws in his game (serious flaws) that can be corrected with some coaching and game days off. Having a guy like Vokoun or Bryzgalov would certainly help with that.
He can speak a bit of English now...

And I don't see how sitting on the bench for 60+ games isn't going to have a negative influence on his development.

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04-11-2011, 12:07 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
Phoenix had an 8 game win streak this year where they averaged scoring less than 3 goals a game. Bryzgalov just basically put them on his back and carried them.

This is the real difference between great goaltending and merely good.
No, that's an anomaly that you're expanding into a specious narrative.

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04-11-2011, 12:18 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
No, that's an anomaly that you're expanding into a specious narrative.
It's an anomaly that they won despite not really scoring.

It's not an anomaly that the guy put a team on his back and carried them for stretches. He's done it before.

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04-11-2011, 12:20 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
It's an anomaly that they won despite not really scoring.

It's not an anomaly that the guy put a team on his back and carried them for stretches. He's done it before.
And you don't think the Flyers would have won with low goal totals during Bob's streaks of high production play?

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04-11-2011, 12:23 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
And you don't think the Flyers would have won with low goal totals during Bob's streaks of high production play?
Yes, they certainly would have Jester, however, Bob has yet to demonstrate he is capable of putting a team on his back and carry them in the manner that Bryz did for Phoenix.

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04-11-2011, 12:24 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
Yes, they certainly would have Jester, however, Bob has yet to demonstrate he is capable of putting a team on his back and carry them in the manner that Bryz did for Phoenix.
Outside of the first 20 games of his career, and his studly January... sure.

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04-11-2011, 12:25 PM
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Outside of the first 20 games of his career, and his studly January... sure.
haha ok so we're gonna disagree on this.

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04-11-2011, 12:55 PM
  #87
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Assuming that Bobrovsky's numbers are going to jump to .915 or higher next year, and continue trending toward Bryzgalov's is a pretty dubious assumption.

It's possible, but it's more likely that his numbers next year stay around the same level, or even go downward slightly. He had a red-hot start to this year that undoubtedly helped set up good numbers overall. He surprised a lot of people and once teams scouted him better, came down to earth a bit. It's likely that next year, when the league knows him better, he'll have a hard time improving his numbers over this year. Just ask Steve Mason about sophomore slumps...and ask for whether or not he can get to Bryz' level, that's also iffy. Bryzgalov is really good.

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04-11-2011, 01:12 PM
  #88
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Which puts the organization exactly where it was the previous year, with four legit guys to handle minutes and a weak 3rd pairing. IF Homer's objective was to get two guys on the back end to take minutes from Pronger and Timonen bringing in any of the players you suggested is a setback unless you have someone like Meszaros who can take 3rd pairing minutes, which if you move Carle takes away that possibility.

So the potential solution is to lose some scoring depth up front, and be a more aggressive team defensively and not be so focused on trying to stack eight 20 goal scorers on the roster.
Meszaros is a better all around defenseman than Carle...he has really shown that since Pronger went down and he has been relied on more. He only started on the third pairing this year because he was coming off a couple of down years in Tampa, so he had to prove himself here first, which he has.

When you have 3 defensemen who could arguably be the number 1 guy on many of the teams around the league, you dont need to be paying a guy like Carle 3.5 mil to play on the 3rd pairing. There are plenty of cheaper solutions around the league that can play respectable minutes and not hurt the team...and you have a few guys in the system that could step up as well.

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04-11-2011, 01:55 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Assuming that Bobrovsky's numbers are going to jump to .915 or higher next year, and continue trending toward Bryzgalov's is a pretty dubious assumption.

It's possible, but it's more likely that his numbers next year stay around the same level, or even go downward slightly. He had a red-hot start to this year that undoubtedly helped set up good numbers overall. He surprised a lot of people and once teams scouted him better, came down to earth a bit. It's likely that next year, when the league knows him better, he'll have a hard time improving his numbers over this year. Just ask Steve Mason about sophomore slumps...and ask for whether or not he can get to Bryz' level, that's also iffy. Bryzgalov is really good.
Bobrovsky's stats this season: .915 SVPCT / 2.59 GAA

.915 would be simply holding down what he did this year... and while his numbers may not change much, he has numerous areas in his game where consistency will improve with coaching/experience. For example, as his language skills improve playing the puck will become less of a problem (on top of gaining the physical skill to do it better, which isn't something they develop in Europe very well).

He certainly could slump next year... so could Vokoun and Bryz.

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04-11-2011, 02:07 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Bobrovsky's stats this season: .915 SVPCT / 2.59 GAA

.915 would be simply holding down what he did this year... and while his numbers may not change much, he has numerous areas in his game where consistency will improve with coaching/experience. For example, as his language skills improve playing the puck will become less of a problem (on top of gaining the physical skill to do it better, which isn't something they develop in Europe very well).

He certainly could slump next year... so could Vokoun and Bryz.
My mistake on the .915, for some reason I got it in my head that it was lower (and neglected to check). Mistake on my part.

I'm not saying he can't/won't improve, but it's a lot to bank on. Especially when the trend hasn't exactly been steadily upward since the start of the year.

It all depends on how the playoffs go, really, and who becomes available (for what price).

As of now, I'm generally of the opinion that Bob is the guy going forward, and I want him playing 40-60 games next season, depending on who the backup is. Ideally, we'd have someone good for him to study and learn from (better than Boosh), but if it comes to it Boucher is a perfectly serviceable backup. I just depends on how this year goes and whether or not Bob is our win now guy.

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04-11-2011, 02:27 PM
  #91
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See, I think Boosh has turned himself into the ideal backup for a young goalie. He's fully embraced the backup role, and appears to be nothing but a good teammate. One of the primary reasons I'm not interested in Leighton as the backup to Bob, is because I don't think he'll embrace that role... and that's a problem when your starter is a young, developing guy.

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04-11-2011, 02:29 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
See, I think Boosh has turned himself into the ideal backup for a young goalie. He's fully embraced the backup role, and appears to be nothing but a good teammate. One of the primary reasons I'm not interested in Leighton as the backup to Bob, is because I don't think he'll embrace that role... and that's a problem when your starter is a young, developing guy.
This. I want to see Boosh back on a one year contract for this reason.

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04-11-2011, 02:48 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
See, I think Boosh has turned himself into the ideal backup for a young goalie. He's fully embraced the backup role, and appears to be nothing but a good teammate. One of the primary reasons I'm not interested in Leighton as the backup to Bob, is because I don't think he'll embrace that role... and that's a problem when your starter is a young, developing guy.
Oh, don't get me wrong - I'm right there with you. Boosh has been very good in his role here (he was last year, too).

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04-11-2011, 03:21 PM
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This. I want to see Boosh back on a one year contract for this reason.
Maybe 2, because we know that Eriksson won't be here next season, but will be the following season, but we don't know if he will be our backup right away.

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04-16-2011, 01:23 PM
  #95
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remember how I said i would welcome Bryzgalov on this tea?

I changed my mind

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