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04-11-2011, 12:42 PM
  #101
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I blame the team, not so much the coach. Players of this caliber have to play and when you get bulldozed by AHLers in the NHL, you make yourself look foolish and lazy.

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04-11-2011, 12:42 PM
  #102
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He (Lavy) did have a series changing timeout though...

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04-11-2011, 12:49 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
The converstaion was begun on "is Laviolette on a short leash" if they lose, and bottom line this is the time for the players to prove they belong in the playoffs. Coach already has his name on Lord Stanley's Cup.

My question back to you would be what do you feel as being a team failure? First round, quarters, semi's, or making the finals and no Cup?
Every season's a failure if you don't win the Cup, but it doesn'y necessarily mean drastic changes are necessary.

Coming out of last season's Stanley Cup Final, my biggest concerns were depth on defense, goaltending and, a distant third, faceoffs.

Holmgren addressed the holes in the defense but goaltending is still questionable and the team is mediocre in the faceoff circle. If they don't win this year, some of the blame will fall on Holmgren for either not addressing, or even recognizing, the flaws (like goaltending).

The players will take the blame for how they lose, if they do. Since they haven't lost anything yet, I can't call them out for anything.

Lavi gets the blame if he's truly lost the dressing room, which is something I will only know if the team mentions it when he's eventually canned. I don't think Lavi's on a short leash, given how patient management was with Stevens. Lavi has proven to be a much more capable NHL coach than Stevens, so I bet Holmgren will give him the benefit of the doubt should they fall early in the playoffs.

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04-11-2011, 01:14 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
At the end of the season I reevaluate Homer, during the season while they are playing outside of the trade deadline it is on the coach/players. Homer has and does mismanage but right now I think he put this team in a good position to win it all.
Agreed, homer didn't do a good job with the cap for the future but this team is dangerous right now. Now it's up to see if Lavi can get them over the hump. It's his job to push the right buttons and get the team clicking.

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04-11-2011, 01:30 PM
  #105
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The Flyers got at least a point in 20 of their last 30 games.
The Canucks got at least a point in 21 of their last 30 games.
The Red Wings got at least a point in 20 of their last 30 games.

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04-11-2011, 01:43 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Every season's a failure if you don't win the Cup, but it doesn'y necessarily mean drastic changes are necessary.

Coming out of last season's Stanley Cup Final, my biggest concerns were depth on defense, goaltending and, a distant third, faceoffs.

Holmgren addressed the holes in the defense but goaltending is still questionable and the team is mediocre in the faceoff circle. If they don't win this year, some of the blame will fall on Holmgren for either not addressing, or even recognizing, the flaws (like goaltending).

The players will take the blame for how they lose, if they do. Since they haven't lost anything yet, I can't call them out for anything.

Lavi gets the blame if he's truly lost the dressing room, which is something I will only know if the team mentions it when he's eventually canned. I don't think Lavi's on a short leash, given how patient management was with Stevens. Lavi has proven to be a much more capable NHL coach than Stevens, so I bet Holmgren will give him the benefit of the doubt should they fall early in the playoffs.
Agree with everything except for if Laviolette has lost the locker room and this is the reason for a drop in play. If the players are not going to listen and the captain is not going to get the troops in line, then you have to start looking at changes in the dressing room.

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04-11-2011, 01:46 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
Agreed, homer didn't do a good job with the cap for the future but this team is dangerous right now. Now it's up to see if Lavi can get them over the hump. It's his job to push the right buttons and get the team clicking.
That was last season, there should be no more buttons, just execute the game plan which was successful during last seasons run. Outside of the timeouts and line changes it is on the players to get the job done, they have been given everything they need, enough times in this situation and playoff experience.

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04-11-2011, 01:53 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
The Flyers got at least a point in 20 of their last 30 games.
The Canucks got at least a point in 21 of their last 30 games.
The Red Wings got at least a point in 20 of their last 30 games.
Now you are just grasping to make your point. At least I will give you an A for keeping on the orange glasses.

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04-11-2011, 01:53 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
That was last season, there should be no more buttons, just execute the game plan which was successful during last seasons run. Outside of the timeouts and line changes it is on the players to get the job done, they have been given everything they need, enough times in this situation and playoff experience.
You have already mentioned that Richards and Carter aren't good leaders so you can't expect them to step up right now. If a team lacks leadership it's on the coach's shoulder to motivate the team and bring them to the promise land.

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04-11-2011, 02:02 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
You have already mentioned that Richards and Carter aren't good leaders so you can't expect them to step up right now. If a team lacks leadership it's on the coach's shoulder to motivate the team and bring them to the promise land.
But I thought the players were great leaders and top performers in the NHL, this should be a natural for them.

I love the revisionist history though. Laviolette gets this team into a style of play and into the SCF's with his coaching and the players executing. Now the leaders you have mentioned are in the postion again and you would prefer to give them a pass???

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04-11-2011, 02:08 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Agree with everything except for if Laviolette has lost the locker room and this is the reason for a drop in play. If the players are not going to listen and the captain is not going to get the troops in line, then you have to start looking at changes in the dressing room.
I don't believe he has lost the locker room; that would be the only case where I would assign blame to him, though. If his message isn't getting through any longer, that's the time for a coaching change.

***Again, I don't think he actually has fallen on deaf ears***

The core leadership group has proven they can keep the team in line during the playoffs, as their two deep runs in the last three season have shown.

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04-11-2011, 02:09 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
But I thought the players were great leaders and top performers in the NHL, this should be a natural for them.

I love the revisionist history though. Laviolette gets this team into a style of play and into the SCF's with his coaching and the players executing. Now the leaders you have mentioned are in the postion again and you would prefer to give them a pass???
I never said Richards or Carter were great leaders. I said they are good hockey players. If they are bad leaders then the coach needs to step in and lead. If he doesnt, he's not doing his job.

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04-11-2011, 02:18 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Now you are just grasping to make your point. At least I will give you an A for keeping on the orange glasses.
Man, your posts are the chesticles.

I would've said "****," but that's censored. So you could've thought it was "****," "****," "****," "****," or myriad other things.

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04-11-2011, 02:20 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
I never said Richards or Carter were great leaders. I said they are good hockey players. If they are bad leaders then the coach needs to step in and lead. If he doesnt, he's not doing his job.
But should your best players on the ice be able to lead by being productive and by being difference makers? Look at Toews and Kane last season. Did the coach need to knock their heads to get it done, or did they just go out and get the job done?

If the players do not excute on the ice they are not getting the job done, and considering the paycheck they get on a game by game basis a lot of the responsibility belongs to them as well. Laviolette hs done a great job with this crew, given them a system which has proven to work with the players on the roster, added depth at the one place which hurt them last season, now it is time for your best players to be the best on the biggest stage.

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04-11-2011, 02:38 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
I don't believe he has lost the locker room; that would be the only case where I would assign blame to him, though. If his message isn't getting through any longer, that's the time for a coaching change.

***Again, I don't think he actually has fallen on deaf ears***

The core leadership group has proven they can keep the team in line during the playoffs, as their two deep runs in the last three season have shown.
Welp, now it is time to see if they are mentally and physically strong enough to close the deal. Crosby did it, Toews and Kane did it, can the core group on this team now get it done?

I just hate the idea that fans would actually look at the coach as the scapegoat with the history which has preceeded this playoffs. The deck is stacked in Philly's favor this year to have a good run and exorcise some demons, let's see them get it done.

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04-11-2011, 02:41 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Welp, now it is time to see if they are mentally and physically strong enough to close the deal. Crosby did it, Toews and Kane did it, can the core group on this team now get it done?

I just hate the idea that fans would actually look at the coach as the scapegoat with the history which has preceeded this playoffs. The deck is stacked in Philly's favor this year to have a good run and exorcise some demons, let's see them get it done.
It's really not. I mean, it doesn't look bad by any means, but this team's played playoff hockey half the time they've been on the ice since last December. Now they've had a little break, things got a little ugly at the end, and they have to do it again.

"Stacked" in their favor's probably overdoing it.

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04-11-2011, 02:43 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Now you are just grasping to make your point. At least I will give you an A for keeping on the orange glasses.
My point was that the sky isn't falling.
Could the Flyers have played better? Absolutely.
Did they totally **** the bed? No.

If Carter plays the way I expect him to, will you man up and admit that he has? Or will you continue to crucify him for every little thing he does?

If Richards leads the team (just as he did last year), will you man up and admit that he did? Or will you continue to give all the credit to Pronger and all the **** to Richards?

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04-11-2011, 02:56 PM
  #118
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These boards have really seemed to go to **** lately. We're really discussing whether or not Lavi gets fired if the don't make it out of the first round. This shouldn't even be a discussion.

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04-11-2011, 02:59 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
My point was that the sky isn't falling.
Could the Flyers have played better? Absolutely.
Did they totally **** the bed? No.
We will wait and see on this, losing the lead to the Isles and finishing the season the way they did over the last month and a half is putting your faith in the theory they can flip the switch and win. Not only does the record show poor, inconsistent play but the eye test was obvious, they were not at the level they needed to be to win games.

Quote:
If Carter plays the way I expect him to, will you man up and admit that he has? Or will you continue to crucify him for every little thing he does?
If Carter plays in the way he needs to for this team to make a serious run I will write a whole thread about the "Greatness that is JC" and apologize for ever criticizing him and his play.

Quote:
If Richards leads the team (just as he did last year), will you man up and admit that he did? Or will you continue to give all the credit to Pronger and all the **** to Richards?
I have never questioned Richards post-season efforts, he has shown to step up his game, but you have to admit this team went as far as Pronger was taking them last season. Possibly one of the greatest defensive showings I have seen. But yes, Richards comes up big I am more than willing to give praise where it is due.

But again, this is what the leaders on this team need to do for success. It is not just about being an insitgator and calling out these guys, it is about the players fulfilling the expectations.

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04-11-2011, 03:01 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
It's really not. I mean, it doesn't look bad by any means, but this team's played playoff hockey half the time they've been on the ice since last December. Now they've had a little break, things got a little ugly at the end, and they have to do it again.

"Stacked" in their favor's probably overdoing it.
Buffalo over the Rangers is a much better situation, I expect the Rangers/Caps matchup to be a good series going 7 games. Pitt and Philly got the best possible matchups for their squads.

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04-11-2011, 03:01 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by FlyerSithLord View Post
These boards have really seemed to go to **** lately. We're really discussing whether or not Lavi gets fired if the don't make it out of the first round. This shouldn't even be a discussion.
I'm pretty sure this thread was made solely to rope people in to a dumb debate and egg them on. A lot of people have fallen for it.

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04-11-2011, 03:03 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by FlyerSithLord View Post
These boards have really seemed to go to **** lately. We're really discussing whether or not Lavi gets fired if the don't make it out of the first round. This shouldn't even be a discussion.
Sorry you feel that way dude. You don't have to participate. How about starting your own thread about something that you feel is worthy of discussion

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04-11-2011, 03:06 PM
  #123
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I'm pretty sure this thread was made solely to rope people in to a dumb debate and egg them on. A lot of people have fallen for it.
A couple of days off until the games start, what else are you going to do?

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04-11-2011, 03:09 PM
  #124
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I'm pretty sure this thread was made solely to rope people in to a dumb debate and egg them on. A lot of people have fallen for it.
I thought so at first lol. There's been so much sarcasm the last week or so, I'm having trouble keeping up.

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04-11-2011, 03:10 PM
  #125
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I'm pretty sure this thread was made solely to rope people in to a dumb debate and egg them on. A lot of people have fallen for it.

Speak for yourself man. I for one am passionate about this.

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