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NJ trades Langenbrunner to DAL

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Old
04-11-2011, 02:02 PM
  #176
BeaverSports
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Originally Posted by Stars99Lobo37 View Post
Are you talking about this year or in the past?
I'm talking about this year. Almost every game I get on a game thread and see bad things posted about Langenbrunner and I think to myself, well, Morrow made this mistake, Ribeiro made that one, Ott could have done that, et cetera.

I'm not saying Langenbrunner was the Stars' best forward and the acquisition didn't work out as planned — though I don't think he was being paid big dollars or expected to be the Langenbrunner of old anyway — but the degree to which he is a whipping boy on this board is insane.

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I'm almost positive every single player on our team has been criticized at one point or another this season, out of Benn...even though he has earned the criticized notion after the past couple of games imo.
Maybe so, but this board seems to have some players who can do no right. For a while it was Daley before his new contract, even though he was probably consistently this team's best defenceman, and it was also Langenbrunner and Woywitka, when really, they weren't close to as bad as one would think reading here.

I think I've been far from a Nieuwendyk apologist in the past few years, one might say I've been a harsher critic than most over the years, but I disagree strongly with the player valuations here.

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04-11-2011, 02:09 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Cin View Post
I warned everybody about Benn though, if he's overplayed he's useless and can't contribute a thing. Crawford wore him out with all of the double shifting. Hell he was triple shifted some games.
FIRE CRAWFORD

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04-11-2011, 02:25 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by BeaverSports View Post
I'm talking about this year. Almost every game I get on a game thread and see bad things posted about Langenbrunner and I think to myself, well, Morrow made this mistake, Ribeiro made that one, Ott could have done that, et cetera.

I'm not saying Langenbrunner was the Stars' best forward and the acquisition didn't work out as planned — though I don't think he was being paid big dollars or expected to be the Langenbrunner of old anyway — but the degree to which he is a whipping boy on this board is insane.



Maybe so, but this board seems to have some players who can do no right. For a while it was Daley before his new contract, even though he was probably consistently this team's best defenceman, and it was also Langenbrunner and Woywitka, when really, they weren't close to as bad as one would think reading here.

I think I've been far from a Nieuwendyk apologist in the past few years, one might say I've been a harsher critic than most over the years, but I disagree strongly with the player valuations here.
the thing is those other players consistently make plays that win games for stars. They score goals, they hit, they defend well or they make great passes. Those things more than make up for their occasional errors. Langenbrunner and Woywitka however don't make alot of good plays. The best that you could hope for with them is that they dont royally screw up. That is why they are whipping boys.

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04-11-2011, 02:40 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by BeaverSports View Post
I'm talking about this year. Almost every game I get on a game thread and see bad things posted about Langenbrunner and I think to myself, well, Morrow made this mistake, Ribeiro made that one, Ott could have done that, et cetera.

I'm not saying Langenbrunner was the Stars' best forward and the acquisition didn't work out as planned — though I don't think he was being paid big dollars or expected to be the Langenbrunner of old anyway — but the degree to which he is a whipping boy on this board is insane.



Maybe so, but this board seems to have some players who can do no right. For a while it was Daley before his new contract, even though he was probably consistently this team's best defenceman, and it was also Langenbrunner and Woywitka, when really, they weren't close to as bad as one would think reading here.

I think I've been far from a Nieuwendyk apologist in the past few years, one might say I've been a harsher critic than most over the years, but I disagree strongly with the player valuations here.
As Txomisc said, those players do things that make us win. Ribs is our 70 pt #2C, one of the only players who looked like they wanted it the past 20 games. Morrow is our leading goal scorer. Ya they both **** up defensively A LOT, last night's loss was on Morrow losing his man as much as anyone. But what do Langs and Woywitka do positively at all?

You can't ignore the correlation between the Devils success and the Stars collapse with Langs in the lineup.

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Old
04-11-2011, 02:42 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by UnholyPrince View Post
You can't ignore the correlation between the Devils success and the Stars collapse with Langs in the lineup.
But our GM will.......

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04-11-2011, 02:45 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Stars99Lobo37 View Post
But our GM will.......
and if our gm brings him back next year that will be another reason to get rid of him. If he does I'd rather have Hull/Jackson or Armstrong in charge. At least with Armstrong we wouldn't have a first round pick to get our hopes up about and turn out disastrous.

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04-11-2011, 03:39 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by UnholyPrince View Post
As Txomisc said, those players do things that make us win. Ribs is our 70 pt #2C, one of the only players who looked like they wanted it the past 20 games. Morrow is our leading goal scorer. Ya they both **** up defensively A LOT, last night's loss was on Morrow losing his man as much as anyone. But what do Langs and Woywitka do positively at all?
Those players are top-six forwards on salaries that are much larger than Langenbrunner or Woywitka are making and they're still making mistakes. Do they do things that help the Stars win? Sure. Do they do them enough of the time for their roles on the team? It wouldn't appear that way given that this is not a playoff hockey club again this year.

I thought Langenbrunner's board play this season was very good and he was one of the Stars' best forwards away from the puck since he came over. He makes a lot of quiet plays that make room for others or stop odd-man rushes. They're things that don't jump out, but they are appreciated.

Woywitka is a hard worker and I think a lot of the times he was signalled out, there were team breakdowns that contributed. Is he any more than a bottom-pairing guy in the NHL? No. Did he do some promising things, I think so.

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You can't ignore the correlation between the Devils success and the Stars collapse with Langs in the lineup.
Correlation or coincidence. If you can prove to me that Langenbrunner was the problem on both of those teams, well, you must have actually been in the dressing rooms or have video which shows he was the only one responsible for those games. I'll wait to see it.

The Stars' lack of depth showed when they got into the latter part of the schedule and it's a lot bigger problem than Jamie Langenbrunner could impact, pro or con.

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04-11-2011, 03:41 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by DaStars99 View Post
and if our gm brings him back next year that will be another reason to get rid of him. If he does I'd rather have Hull/Jackson or Armstrong in charge. At least with Armstrong we wouldn't have a first round pick to get our hopes up about and turn out disastrous.
The wise thing, which I said before Armstrong was hired, before Hull and Jackson were hired, and before Nieuwendyk was hired is to go out, do a thorough search and bring in some fresh blood in both the management and scouting capacities. Instead, the Stars would rather live on past glories and names they know.

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04-11-2011, 05:18 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Cin View Post
I warned everybody about Benn though, if he's overplayed he's useless and can't contribute a thing. Crawford wore him out with all of the double shifting. Hell he was triple shifted some games.
What do you mean you warned everybody about him? Because he lost gas in the Calder Cup Finals? He played 20 some odd games after going through his first 82 game schedule which came on the heels of going all the way to the Memorial Cup. So the Austin coaches rode him hard, he delivered, then he didn't quite deliver. That's not a player specific deficiency.

The best players on all teams take extra shifts. Modano did it here for years. You just can't have your best forward playing 24 minutes/gm and expect him to keep it up. It's really not even close to reality that he was useless during or after the times he was being double and triple-shifted down the stretch. He led all Stars players in scoring with 17 points in the 16 games after Richards returned. He also had 23 points in the 23 games upon returning from his own injury. He needs to be averaging 20'ish per night and he'll be fine. I'm actually amazed that he was able to keep playing at such a high level down the stretch.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Beaversports, it's not that some players can do no right. What you're noting about this board is the nature of a message board, not the nature of this message board. If you look through GDT's you'll notice that people mentioned (however jokingly) when Woywitka or Langenbrunner would make a good play. But, when you start to notice things as objectively as possible like how it seems that we've been hemmed in our zone for a while and "man, I've noticed THAT guy out there when that has happened a bunch of times...come to think of it, HE failed to get the puck out...HE rimmed it with a backhand back behind the net without looking to see who was there....HE had an opening to get it out and HE didn't." Those things add up to weak links on a hockey team. When the best thing you can say about a player is that he didn't give you a near heart-attack that time he hopped over the boards it's time to cut bait, if at all possible.


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Old
04-11-2011, 05:37 PM
  #185
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Well it's his first two seasons, can he really expect to be the Star player already? Especially on a team with Brad Richards ya know? Triple shifting will wear a guy down and it has twice now so...

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04-11-2011, 05:53 PM
  #186
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Well it's his first two seasons, can he really expect to be the Star player already? Especially on a team with Brad Richards ya know? Triple shifting will wear a guy down and it has twice now so...
Let's leave his rookie season where it is.

I disagree with your premise that it did wear Benn out this season. Benn played like a monster after he came back from injury. He had been playing better prior to it, but something happened to him while sitting back and watching all those games; he came back a different player. Crawford would have been an idiot to not give Benn those minutes. Of all the **** I give the coach, he made the right decision as it regards Benn's minutes when he came back. Another matter was keeping him off Richards/Eriksson's line once all were back and healthy (until it was too late), but that's for a different topic.

When you're scratching and clawing to make the playoffs you go with the hot hand - Benn was the hot hand. And to answer you first query, I think he is the Stars' best player. The only other player who is even in the conversation is Eriksson. Richards puts up sexy numbers but he lacks enough aspects of his game for me to call him a true all-around player. For example, IMO Richards is a rung below prime Modano. Benn has shown that he has all the tools to be a beast all-around player whose scoring numbers will be in the 70-90 point range...which is pretty much what Richards' career numbers look like, except Benn is already head and shoulders above #91 in terms of defensive play.

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04-11-2011, 06:01 PM
  #187
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You could hear even Razor starting to lose patience with Woywitka toward the end. "Passing your problem on to someone else" is code for "he sucks".

Langenbrunner looked like a 5 year old who uses his stick to prop himself up out there. I couldn't believe how bad it got. Brunnstrom on his worst day was better at clearing the zone than Jamie.

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04-11-2011, 07:55 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued View Post
You could hear even Razor starting to lose patience with Woywitka toward the end. "Passing your problem on to someone else" is code for "he sucks".

Langenbrunner looked like a 5 year old who uses his stick to prop himself up out there. I couldn't believe how bad it got. Brunnstrom on his worst day was better at clearing the zone than Jamie.
lol hyperbole

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