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Kreider is staying at BC (Won't change mind. Summer school)

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Old
04-11-2011, 07:25 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by MKING33 View Post
Also why do we all think York is an idiot? I missed the boat
He's not an idiot. he's a tremendous college coach.

The issue is his track record developing forwards. Since he runs one of the best programs in the nation, he gets blue chip recruits who would have otherwise gone to the CHL (or another school).

There's a long list of York-trained forwards who were drafted with high expectations and dominated college, but stuck around for 3 or 4 years and never reached their potential.

I cant explain why guys who go to schools like Michigan and UND and Maine become better NHL'ers than guys who go to BC since York took over in the early 1990s. It just happens that way.

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04-11-2011, 07:25 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Does anyone else think that this kinda smacks of York trying to stir things up...his players say to him "well right now I think I'm going to return" and then York turns around and tells the media that they're returning, effectively trapping those guys who haven't said anything to the media themselves about their decisions

I'm not particularly sold on BC being good for Kreider's development yet, and that's the main reason I wanted him to turn pro
Agreed, typical college recruitment ploy. Put the kid in a tough spot and hope to put enough pressure on them that they agree with you. I don't know what he has left to do at BC. Jessiman not turning pro had a very negative effect on him. Kreider needs to get with Reg Grant and get on the NYR program and take the next step. If that is not what it is about than I think we made another bad pick.

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04-11-2011, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Media Savvy Lee View Post
He's not an idiot. he's a tremendous college coach.

The issue is his track record developing forwards. Since he runs one of the best programs in the nation, he gets blue chip recruits who would have otherwise gone to the CHL (or another school).

There's a long list of York-trained forwards who were drafted with high expectations and dominated college, but stuck around for 3 or 4 years and never reached their potential.

I cant explain why guys who go to schools like Michigan and UND and Maine become better NHL'ers than guys who go to BC since York took over in the early 1990s. It just happens that way.
The reason why is the type of kid he recruits. He makes a living off the small, speedy type forward -Gionta, Gerbe, Atkinson, etc. Those kids stay in school for 3-4 years opposed to out west where they play a different game.

Just look at the height of BC's 1st line 5-6, 5-8, 5-8. Kids that size, typically don't last in the NHL.

Look at NoDak's top 3 scorers: 6-0, 5-11, 6-1

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04-11-2011, 07:40 PM
  #79
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kid is into academics, I am in the minority here but I think he needs another year. no need to rush him
I am in the minority too then. I don't get all the impatien-- oh, riiiiiiiight. New York fans.

And if there was little competition for Kreider in the NCAA, why does he not have a 60 point season? If Vanek and St. Louis could do it, surely someone as developed and ready for the NHL like Kreider could.

It'll probably take Kreider 5+ years to develop into the player a lot of posters seem to think he can be in his rookie season. I'm seeing a Patrick Sharp type of growth trajectory with him.

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04-11-2011, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by claver2010 View Post
The reason why is the type of kid he recruits. He makes a living off the small, speedy type forward -Gionta, Gerbe, Atkinson, etc. Those kids stay in school for 3-4 years opposed to out west where they play a different game.

Just look at the height of BC's 1st line 5-6, 5-8, 5-8. Kids that size, typically don't last in the NHL.

Look at NoDak's top 3 scorers: 6-0, 5-11, 6-1
This - what legit top-flight recruits has York "ruined"?

I guess you could argue Eaves/Boyle. But while both were first rounders they both also had significant question marks coming into their draft year / college career (size and skating respectively). And both are still NHL fixtures because they rounded out their game in the NCAA.

Also, if the Rangers truly haven't contact him, what do you expect the kid to say? I think a la Stepan and McDonagh things may change.

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04-11-2011, 08:12 PM
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04-11-2011, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by nyrfan444 View Post
This - what legit top-flight recruits has York "ruined"?

I guess you could argue Eaves/Boyle. But while both were first rounders they both also had significant question marks coming into their draft year / college career (size and skating respectively). And both are still NHL fixtures because they rounded out their game in the NCAA.

Also, if the Rangers truly haven't contact him, what do you expect the kid to say? I think a la Stepan and McDonagh things may change.

Tony Voce, Ben eaves, Jeff Farkas, Blake Bellefeuille, Benn Ferriero, Marty Reasoner, Ryan Haggerty to name a few.

Outside of Gionta, has any York-coached forward gone on to score 30 goals at the NHL level?

Before York took over, BC developed Kevin Stevens, Craig Janney, Joe Mullen and Billy Guerin.

Not a single BC-trained forward since York took over has gone on to have a career like the aforementioned.

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04-11-2011, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Jerry York is known for riding his upper-classmen. As Kreider was only a sophomore last season, he didn't always see the minutes and situations that a lot of our fans thought he deserved. That makes York and idiot, apparently.
It's not that he's an idiot. It's that his program is focused on winning NCAA championships and not developing players for possible NHL careers. York's best interests and Kreider's NHL development's best interests do not entirely overlap. If has has convinced Kreider to stay for a third season, then he has essentially stolen another year of his development time. Even if York finally gives Kreider big minutes, they would still be big minutes better spent in the AHL.

I'm not saying that we disagree on any of this, but I think a certain amount of animosity toward York is merited. It doesn't help that he hasn't exactly developed a load of NHL stars in his time at BC. It's time for Kreider's development to be turned over to the Rangers.

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04-11-2011, 08:15 PM
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As much as I like seeing our top prospects progress into pro hockey, it is what it is. I don't know much about the ELC process, but does him staying in the NCAA somehow end up in losing rights to him, or is it another year of college and he can sign a 3 year ETC in 2012?

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04-11-2011, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zil View Post
It's not that he's an idiot. It's that his program is focused on winning NCAA championships and not developing players for possible NHL careers. York's best interests and Kreider's NHL development's best interests do not entirely overlap. If has has convinced Kreider to stay for a third season, then he has essentially stolen another year of his development time. Even if York finally gives Kreider big minutes, they would still be big minutes better spent in the AHL.

I'm not saying that we disagree on any of this, but I think a certain amount of animosity toward York is merited. It doesn't help that he hasn't exactly developed a load of NHL stars in his time at BC. It's time for Kreider's development to be turned over to the Rangers.
My comment about him being "an idiot, apparently," was sarcastic. There's nothing idiotic about Jerry York. He's a tremendously successful coach. I was just mocking the attitude taken by many of our posters that don't seem to realize that York is trying to win games for BC, rather than do all he can to develop our prospect.

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04-11-2011, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by claver2010 View Post
The reason why is the type of kid he recruits. He makes a living off the small, speedy type forward -Gionta, Gerbe, Atkinson, etc. Those kids stay in school for 3-4 years opposed to out west where they play a different game.

Just look at the height of BC's 1st line 5-6, 5-8, 5-8. Kids that size, typically don't last in the NHL.

Look at NoDak's top 3 scorers: 6-0, 5-11, 6-1
Most of York's guys stay at BC for 3-4 years, not just the runts. For whatever reason, they love Chestnut Hill. I can't figure out why they decide to stay instead of going pro.

If Kreider played for Parker, I wouldnt bat an eye at him staying in school another year, and I hate BU.

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04-11-2011, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
My comment about him being "an idiot, apparently," was sarcastic. There's nothing idiotic about Jerry York. He's a tremendously successful coach. I was just mocking the attitude taken by many of our posters that don't seem to realize that York is trying to win games for BC, rather than do all he can to develop our prospect.
Which makes him a great coach that I wish CK didn't play for if he doesn't take a step forward in his development, be it with BC or in Hartford.

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04-11-2011, 08:19 PM
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He is right.

York is also a jerk of a human being, but that is besides the point.

If Chris really is concerned about education we're looking at him potentially staying all 4 year. I don't like the idea of us, as an organization, missing a player who could very possibly be in the lineup.

But we have prospect depth. So we'll be fine.

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04-11-2011, 08:20 PM
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Thanks for the York answers guys, I got the impression from some posters that he ran players into the ground or used jedi mind tricks on players to stay haha

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04-11-2011, 08:20 PM
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I really don't have a problem with this. Let's see him take top line minutes and make something of it- build some confidence. It's a little reactionary to believe that star players can be made or broken by one year of college IMO.

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04-11-2011, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
My comment about him being "an idiot, apparently," was sarcastic. There's nothing idiotic about Jerry York. He's a tremendously successful coach. I was just mocking the attitude taken by many of our posters that don't seem to realize that York is trying to win games for BC, rather than do all he can to develop our prospect.
Why should Rangers fans care about York's won-loss record?

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04-11-2011, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Media Savvy Lee View Post
Why should Rangers fans care about York's won-loss record?
They shouldn't. But York is not an idiot by any stretch, is my point.

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04-11-2011, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Media Savvy Lee View Post
Most of York's guys stay at BC for 3-4 years, not just the runts. For whatever reason, they love Chestnut Hill. I can't figure out why they decide to stay instead of going pro.

If Kreider played for Parker, I wouldnt bat an eye at him staying in school another year, and I hate BU.
It's the program & the school. You go to BC to graduate & win, you go to BU to go to the NHL. It's the truth. Even the players that left early (Atkinson, Hayes, Gerbe) are still going to graduate/graduated.

Voce: 5-8, undrafted
Ben Eaves: 5-8, 5th round
Blake: 5-10, undrafted
Ferriero: 5-10, 7th round
Reasoner -agreed
Haggerty: 6-1, 5th round


But I'm done, as the schmoozer would say, Rangers in 7.

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04-11-2011, 08:34 PM
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This is why, despite my love for the NCAA, I wish Kreider had gone to the QMJHL.

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04-11-2011, 08:35 PM
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Can't believe some of the absolutely selfish comments I am reading in here.

It's this kid's life and he can do whatever he wants with it. Good for him if he actually does stay there, if that's what makes him happy.

Such entitlement here.

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04-11-2011, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
The education argument doesn't make sense. Since you can get an education at any age.

And lets be honest, he's a student athlete. He's not primarily in school to get an education...

For his development, he's probably best served to sign. Go to the AHL. Step up in competition would be nice. imo
The college experience is not the same when you are 30-40, and his friends are there NOW, with the exception of those who went pro.

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04-11-2011, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
He is right.

York is also a jerk of a human being, but that is besides the point.

If Chris really is concerned about education we're looking at him potentially staying all 4 year. I don't like the idea of us, as an organization, missing a player who could very possibly be in the lineup.

But we have prospect depth. So we'll be fine.

People on here need to realize I have nothing personal against York. I covered Hockey East for almost 10 years in the Boston area and York was a pleasure to talk to and was always available for an interview. Plus, I respect him for taking control of Boston hockey away from Parker.

But I'm a Rangers fan first and foremost, and the only time I become remotely interested in anything York does is when it involves the development of a player I hope to see dominate at the NHL level while wearing a Rangers jersey.

It's the only reason I was against the Kreider pick in the first place.
There's no explanation as to why BC forwards under York rarely become stars. It just happens, and in this case, I pray that Kreider is the exception and not the rule.

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04-11-2011, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Can't believe some of the absolutely selfish comments I am reading in here.

It's this kid's life and he can do whatever he wants with it. Good for him if he actually does stay there, if that's what makes him happy.

Such entitlement here.
To play devils advocate, if Kreider is your first round selection and he's committed himself to playing in the NHL, and you've come to sign him twice, and he rejects twice, you have to understand the frustration.

I'm happy he takes education so seriously, shows he's smart, but what it comes down to is he was drafted to play hockey and when you reject the organization who drafted you twice, I don't think that's a good thing.

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04-11-2011, 08:41 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
They shouldn't. But York is not an idiot by any stretch, is my point.
Who called him an idiot? Granted, if Kreider doesnt pan out, i might call him worse.

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04-11-2011, 08:43 PM
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To play devils advocate, if Kreider is your first round selection and he's committed himself to playing in the NHL, and you've come to sign him twice, and he rejects twice, you have to understand the frustration.
Well that between him and the Rangers. This board is not the Rangers, and for people to call him stupid or get bent out of shape because this kid wants to stay at college is absurd.

Then again, a lot of things at HFboards are absurd.

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