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Brian "Gretzky" Boyle?

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Old
04-12-2011, 01:26 AM
  #501
Inferno
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I don't think he's a fluke as a solid defensive role player, but goal-scoring wise, there were a lot of fluky goals, and a lot of goals that only happened because early in the season he was being paid no attention to by opposing defenses. I don't think it's a coincidence that his scoring slowed down. Now teams know he has a wrist shot, so they don't give him as much freedom.

They also know that, despite his size, he's not very physical, so they can take him into the corner or the boards and not pay too hefty a price.

While he's here, if you want to maximize offense from him, he should be on the wing.



Absolutely. I think he's by far the most expendable player on the roster that holds any sort of value and that might generate any sort of interest. Preferably, he'll be offered up as part of a package.
pretty much agree with most of this, though i do like him as a defensive center, i think hes very responsible, especially since hes played defense. but if i could package him for a better player, i would totally look for it.

Maybe something like...Boyle, Our first, kundratek for Benn?

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04-12-2011, 01:30 AM
  #502
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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
Thats right, cause he isn't a 4th line center! He is a 3rd line center, Inferno is saying pay him as if he is a 4th line center. EC has been our 4th line center for that last 2-3 weeks, now Drury is. Maybe Boyle will get Drury money
He shouldn't be a third line center. And if we get an actual first line center, Boyle will be back down on line 4.

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04-12-2011, 01:31 AM
  #503
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Originally Posted by Rangers44 View Post
maybe playing hurt? He took some hits and shots blocked that looked like hurt him.

There's also the fatigue factor. This is his 2nd full season but he's never played big minutes like this season.

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04-12-2011, 01:31 AM
  #504
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
2 mil a year?!??!?! isnt that what Cally makes right now?

boyle makes 525k right now, id sign him for 1-1.25 mil, tops. 2 mil, for 3/4ths of a good season, roflmao.
after the 2008 season where callahan had 22 goals and 18 assists, after scoring a total of 12 goals combined in the 2 previous seasons cally signed a deal that paid him 2.3 million cap hit for 2 seasons.

Boyle has 21 goals and 14 assists for 35 points, with a total of 12 goals combined in the 3 previous seasons. SO yes 2 million a year for 2 years is completely insane considering his numbers are pretty close to Callahan's numbers when he signed his new deal.

Proof is right there for you buddy.

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04-12-2011, 01:33 AM
  #505
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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
Thats right, cause he isn't a 4th line center! He is a 3rd line center, Inferno is saying pay him as if he is a 4th line center. EC has been our 4th line center for that last 2-3 weeks, now Drury is. Maybe Boyle will get Drury money
hes a defensive center. his minutes are what they are because hes one of our top penalty killers, he starts every period, he starts every shift after goals (for and against, unless his line scored it), etc. Its the same reason Blair Betts played 14+ minutes a night with us. He IS a 4th line center. The Reason hes playing such huge minutes is because he plays a quality defensive game. he isn't a liability, and you can count on his line to hold the fort and stem opposition momentum. with that said, this isn't something thats unique to him, and, i dont see the offensive output he had earlier in the season as something we can count on going forward. So, like I said, there is no way in hell i pay him 2 mil a year, and, i would most definitely trade him, and some other parts, to improve elsewhere.

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04-12-2011, 01:34 AM
  #506
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
He shouldn't be a third line center. And if we get an actual first line center, Boyle will be back down on line 4.
Disagree, he is better defensively than Stepan and Anisimov should NOT be wasted playing 3rd line center because he has some defensive instincts. If you want him to be on the 4th line on paper when MSG shows the lineup thats fine, but he should get 3rd line ice time against teams top lines and not be on a line that gets 2 minutes a period as he serves no purpose that way.

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04-12-2011, 01:36 AM
  #507
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Originally Posted by darko View Post
There's also the fatigue factor. This is his 2nd full season but he's never played big minutes like this season.
He defintely looks worn down, playing all 82 games and tons of PK time sacrificing your body will do that in your second full season. This guy gets crapped on here way too much, I hope he has a killer playoffs to quiet some of the naysayers. Guys who play solid defensive games get no love here.

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04-12-2011, 01:37 AM
  #508
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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
after the 2008 season where callahan had 22 goals and 18 assists, after scoring a total of 12 goals combined in the 2 previous seasons cally signed a deal that paid him 2.3 million cap hit for 2 seasons.

Boyle has 21 goals and 14 assists for 35 points, with a total of 12 goals combined in the 3 previous seasons. SO yes 2 million a year for 2 years is completely insane considering his numbers are pretty close to Callahan's numbers when he signed his new deal.

Proof is right there for you buddy.
Callahans 12 goals and 8 assists (20 points) for those 2 seasons were in 66 games played, thats 15/10/25 pace for essentially a rookie.

prior to this season Boyle has played 107 games, with 12 goals and 4 assists, which is 9/3/12

That's half the production.

Half the production, half the payday. 1 mil.

Proof is right there for you buddy.

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04-12-2011, 01:41 AM
  #509
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1 year deal somewhere around 1 mill is what I'd give Boyle. Go up to 1.25 like Inferno is saying. 1 year deal only and he needs to prove that this season isnt a fluke, then he'll get his payday following summer.

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04-12-2011, 01:45 AM
  #510
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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
He defintely looks worn down, playing all 82 games and tons of PK time sacrificing your body will do that in your second full season. This guy gets crapped on here way too much, I hope he has a killer playoffs to quiet some of the naysayers. Guys who play solid defensive games get no love here.
its not about no love. its about selling high and realizing an outlier when you see it.

we missed the boat when there were certain rumors out there about Prucha that I dont even want to pretend are true because they frikkin KILL me.

Again, if you think Boyle is going to be a stead 20-25 goal guy playign the D the way he does, then we should keep him (and pay him accordingly, NOT 2 mil). However if you feel, like i do, that this was an outlier, and that he's really more of a 5-7 goal guy who had 1 lucky 3/4ths of a season, then you should trade him while you can get some value, and replace him internally, perhaps even with Grachev who is now playing Center in Hartford and actually does have 20+ goal scoring upside.

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04-12-2011, 01:51 AM
  #511
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Callahans 12 goals and 8 assists (20 points) for those 2 seasons were in 66 games played, thats 15/10/25 pace for essentially a rookie.

prior to this season Boyle has played 107 games, with 12 goals and 4 assists, which is 9/3/12

That's half the production.

Half the production, half the payday. 1 mil.

Proof is right there for you buddy.
First off half the pay of a 2.3 million dollar cap hit is not 1 million, its 1.15.

Next he did not get his 2.3 million dollar cap hit cause he had 12 goals and 8 assists, he got it for the 22 goals and 18 assists for 40 points in 2008 (his contract year). Boyle had 21 goals and 14 assists for 35 points (in his contract year). Pretty similar numbers in a contract year. I think even you can agree to that?

There is NO WAY Brian Boyle signs a contract for 1.15 million dollars, unless you are his agent and you blackmail him. I think his contract tops out at 2 million, I assume Sather will play hardball, depends on how many years but I would be extremely surprised and you can feel more than free to bookmark this post, that Boyle would sign for anything less than 1.75 million a season. I said Staal would have a cap hit close to 4 million and people said i was nuts then too, so we shall see.

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04-12-2011, 01:54 AM
  #512
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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
First off half the pay of a 2.3 million dollar cap hit is not 1 million, its 1.15.

Next he did not get his 2.3 million dollar cap hit cause he had 12 goals and 8 assists, he got it for the 22 goals and 18 assists for 40 points in 2008 (his contract year). Boyle had 21 goals and 14 assists for 35 points (in his contract year). Pretty similar numbers in a contract year. I think even you can agree to that?

There is NO WAY Brian Boyle signs a contract for 1.15 million dollars, unless you are his agent and you blackmail him. I think his contract tops out at 2 million, I assume Sather will play hardball, depends on how many years but I would be extremely surprised and you can feel more than free to bookmark this post, that Boyle would sign for anything less than 1.75 million a season. I said Staal would have a cap hit close to 4 million and people said i was nuts then too, so we shall see.
i assumed Staals hit woulda been closer to 5, so im shocked at what he signed for. similar numbers, sure, but i never got that "fluke" feeling with Cally the way I do with Boyle (and how I did with Voros FWIW)

like i said 1-1.25 mil, right in the range he should get paid. i dont think he gets 1.75 mil, id be fairly surprised if he does, and if the Rangers are really going to go after Richards, they need to be very smart with how they hand out money, because they still have to pay 4 guys who are WAY more important than Boyle to this team first. Especially with the summer cap. That scares me.

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04-12-2011, 01:56 AM
  #513
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
its not about no love. its about selling high and realizing an outlier when you see it.

we missed the boat when there were certain rumors out there about Prucha that I dont even want to pretend are true because they frikkin KILL me.

Again, if you think Boyle is going to be a stead 20-25 goal guy playign the D the way he does, then we should keep him (and pay him accordingly, NOT 2 mil). However if you feel, like i do, that this was an outlier, and that he's really more of a 5-7 goal guy who had 1 lucky 3/4ths of a season, then you should trade him while you can get some value, and replace him internally, perhaps even with Grachev who is now playing Center in Hartford and actually does have 20+ goal scoring upside.
I believe his numbers will improve with better line mates and some PP time as this was his first full season. You can disagree thats up to you. If you want to sell high, I have no problem but I wouldn't trade him unless the deal is a really good one as he is young, big, a team player, great PKer, and has shown he has scoring touch. If you think its a fluke, thats your opinion and you are entitled to it. Prucha I feel played way too reckless of a style to keep it up over a couple of seasons and was only good in one zone of the ice. Boyle has potential to be a very good 2 way player who can shut down other teams top lines while scoring some goals and by some 15-25 is my ball park. Very clear we have different opinions, but I do think you guys are quite mistaken if you think Boyle would sign for anything less than 1.75 million a season with his numbers, even for a long term deal.

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04-12-2011, 02:47 AM
  #514
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I can't see Boyle's numbers taking another significant jump. We'll be lucky if he doesn't regress from this year's totals. He put up 7 goals and 6 assists in the second half, so he's really already fallen down to Earth. There just aren't a lot of easy improvement areas left for him. He'd need to take a sudden, unexpected jump in skill or hockey IQ to get much better than he currently is. I agree with Sting, Boyle's the guy I'd try to package for that piece to put us over the top.

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04-12-2011, 02:54 AM
  #515
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Boyle without the offense is still 10x the Boyle we saw last year. His skating has helped his defensive game so much, he has become a major leader on the team, and throws his weight around much more then he ever has.

I think most will agree his scoring spree in the beginning of the year was an anomaly, but if he plays this good defensively, hits, brings leadership and can pot 15 goals-15 assists a season, he's a welcome addition to this franchise's core group.

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04-12-2011, 02:56 AM
  #516
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Well it's not like this team has that many pieces to package in a substantial trade. Obviously Boyle being a 6'7", 26 year old 21 goal scorer makes him an asset. But he's clearly just a throw in if we're talking about an acquisition that puts the Rangers "over the top". If you're talking about a trade involving Boyle that is netting a major return, I'm already worried about what else is going the other way.

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04-12-2011, 07:28 AM
  #517
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Originally Posted by HockeyBurd View Post
Well it's not like this team has that many pieces to package in a substantial trade. Obviously Boyle being a 6'7", 26 year old 21 goal scorer makes him an asset. But he's clearly just a throw in if we're talking about an acquisition that puts the Rangers "over the top". If you're talking about a trade involving Boyle that is netting a major return, I'm already worried about what else is going the other way.
personally there are many pieces that im not particularly enamored with that id be willing to part with to get something better.

id be willing to move any of:
MZA
Boyle
Our first and both our 2nds this year
Avery
Drury
Christensen
Kundratek
Valentenko


and then you can start talking about other players, like Grachev, AA, Girardi, etc when talking about "significant" upgrades.

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04-12-2011, 07:56 AM
  #518
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Thanks for the uplifting statistics just before we start the playoffs.


Think positive!
This whole thread is a big jinx to get Boyle going!

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04-12-2011, 08:57 AM
  #519
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I think the dropoff in Boyle's production has been a product of a couple different factors:

1) Increased responsibility - Earlier in the season, the Fedotenko-Boyle-Prust line was playing mostly other team's checking/energy/scrub line, and they were absolutely feasting on that level of competition. As Torts gained confidence in them, their responsibility has taken a huge jump. As some of our rookies have fatigued and had their minutes slashed, that line is out there in many critical situations against the other teams Top-6 players. Boyle simply isn't going to produce at the same pace playing against lines that completely out-skill him, and against which he must assume a more defensive role.

2) Fatigue - I don't think he has ever played this many minutes this late in the season. Closely related to #1, but I think it deserves to be explicitly stated. He plays hard minutes on the PK, and leads the team in hits.

3) Luck - Yes, I said it. Early in the season, he had a bunch of fluky goals (Brodeur, anyone? ). Now, it seems the pendulum has swung the other way, and he has hit the post a bunch of times lately.

4) Injury? - It may just be fatigue, but I find it hard to believe with the way he plays that something isn't bothering him. He doesn't look as fast as he did earlier in the season.

I definitely don't think this year was a fluke for him in general. I think he is finally coming into his own. If he could somehow take another step to improve his balance and get stronger on the puck, the man could become an absolute monster. He'll never be a guy that can score through skill, but at 6'7", being a good skater with decent balance and a mean streak, he'd get goals through sheer force of will. That's my hope for Brian Boyle. If management doesn't think he's capable of becoming that kind of player, then move him now while his value is high.

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04-12-2011, 09:05 AM
  #520
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He has made some significant strides, but he wasn't too much involved down the stretch.

I'd like him back, but don't overpay...

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04-12-2011, 09:39 AM
  #521
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Will it be Brian "Smythe" Boyle or Brian "Pronger" Boyle this post-season? What's the best way to use this potential brute of a man?

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04-12-2011, 02:33 PM
  #522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
personally there are many pieces that im not particularly enamored with that id be willing to part with to get something better.

id be willing to move any of:
MZA
Boyle
Our first and both our 2nds this year
Avery
Drury
Christensen
Kundratek
Valentenko


and then you can start talking about other players, like Grachev, AA, Girardi, etc when talking about "significant" upgrades.
Well if you're talking about "one man's trash is another man's treasure" type deals, then yeah, Sather can always make those lateral or worse moves. He can always make some Tyutin for Zherdev type deal. Maybe we lose out or maybe we end up with a Prust type piece.

In any case it will be a deal that isn't particularly exciting or especially impacting in the grand scheme of things more often than not. And in that case, I'd rather take a chance on Boyle not being a fluke than trying to "sell high". Then again I have never been into the "trade player A just because" type of stuff that is fun on these boards.

If there is a deal with an asset of significance coming back, I'm all ears. But if that's the case then nobody is off the table really. And like I said, if that deal is happening, Boyle is going to be an afterthought part of the deal.

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04-12-2011, 02:55 PM
  #523
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
They also know that, despite his size, he's not very physical, so they can take him into the corner or the boards and not pay too hefty a price.
Boyle was credited with 240 hits this season in 82 games, or nearly 3 hits a game... He lead the Rangers.... Callahan would have if he didn't miss 22 games. They may not be bone-jarring hits but Boyle definitely upped his physical play this season and it's appreciated...

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04-12-2011, 03:08 PM
  #524
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No doubt Boyle has improved as an all-around player, but I think his offensive numbers really benefit from a hot streak towards the beginning of the year. Look at a breakdown of his numbers below (latest first). He hasn't been great in the 2nd half, and the bulk of his production stems from a 10 game period where he was a PPG, +7 player.

45 GP, 8-6-14, -9
10 GP, 3-7-10, +7
10 GP, 2-1-03, +2
10 GP, 6-0-06, 0
07 GP, 2-0-02, +2

82 GP, 21-14-35,+2

You can break down every players #s in a similar fashion and everyone' numbers look more pedestrian when you take out hot streaks, but for a player who is having a career year, it doesn't come across as him being a consistent, or even emerging and continuously developing, offensive threat.

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04-12-2011, 03:12 PM
  #525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBurd View Post
Well if you're talking about "one man's trash is another man's treasure" type deals, then yeah, Sather can always make those lateral or worse moves. He can always make some Tyutin for Zherdev type deal. Maybe we lose out or maybe we end up with a Prust type piece.

In any case it will be a deal that isn't particularly exciting or especially impacting in the grand scheme of things more often than not. And in that case, I'd rather take a chance on Boyle not being a fluke than trying to "sell high". Then again I have never been into the "trade player A just because" type of stuff that is fun on these boards.

If there is a deal with an asset of significance coming back, I'm all ears. But if that's the case then nobody is off the table really. And like I said, if that deal is happening, Boyle is going to be an afterthought part of the deal.
i was thinking AA, MZA, Kundratek and our First for him as a start off point...*shrugs*

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