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Boogaard is done as a NY Ranger

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Old
04-12-2011, 06:36 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
That's exactly the reason why I want a legit heavy. It's only a matter of time before Prust gets himself hurt, if he continues to fight bigger players.
And yet, Prust played all 82 games this year, and Boogaard missed most of the season due to injury. Do we really need to coddle Prust? He's a big boy and can handle himself. We don't need to waste cap dollars and a roster spot to get him a personal bodyguard.

If we can find a heavyweight that can actually play the game, fine, but no more goons. No more wasted cap dollars.

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Old
04-12-2011, 07:35 AM
  #177
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Torts had an issue with Boogaard's conditioning from the first day of training camp.He lost some weight and then his conditioning regressed again with the concussion. Boogaard couldn't work out so he got heavy again.

Rangers sending him home. What did Boogaard do?

TB terminated the contract of a minor league player Mitch Fadden last month for off ice conduct.

Quote:
The Tampa Bay Lightning has put center Mitch Fadden, a promising minor-league player, on unconditional waivers for the purpose of terminating his contract, general manager Steve Yzerman said:

"There have been some off-ice issues that, eventually, we decided to terminate his contract."

Yzerman declined to go into any more detail, as did Fadden's agent. But The 22-year-old, who is not playing with ECHL Florida while being treated for blood clots, apparently was arrested on March 2 in Salmon Arm, British Columbia. A report in the Salmon Arm Observer states that Mitchell D. Fadden, 22, was arrested for allegedly driving drunk and becoming "violent" with officers, according to a police report. Fadden has an appearance in provincial court scheduled for April 12.
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/lightn...-ice-incidents

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Old
04-12-2011, 09:28 AM
  #178
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The guy turned himself into a biscuit!

He's a big man, to keep the weight off he really needs the cardio grind of playing on a regular basis. If not he's gonna have to really watch his weight which it doesn't sound like he's doing.

Not the first time a player weight has gotten out of control. Jagr did too in his last season here.

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04-12-2011, 11:02 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
And yet, Prust played all 82 games this year, and Boogaard missed most of the season due to injury. Do we really need to coddle Prust? He's a big boy and can handle himself. We don't need to waste cap dollars and a roster spot to get him a personal bodyguard.

If we can find a heavyweight that can actually play the game, fine, but no more goons. No more wasted cap dollars.
I hardly think that providing a heavy as a means of reducing the strain on Prust constitutes coddling him. As I said, it's only a matter of time.

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04-12-2011, 11:20 AM
  #180
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Boyle wont come near 21 goals again..Prust is Prust..We have no idea what Hagelin will do..He might never see an NHL shift.
Boyle won't score 20 goals again? What evidence is there to support that?

Hagelin might not skate an NHL shift? What evidence is there to support that?

Prust is Prust? You mean other then Callahan the hardest working player on the team? Tied for 2nd in short handed points.

These two have been two of the more important players on this team. What evidence is there to support the notion they won't be again next season?

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04-12-2011, 11:32 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Boyle won't score 20 goals again? What evidence is there to support that?

Hagelin might not skate an NHL shift? What evidence is there to support that?

Prust is Prust? You mean other then Callahan the hardest working player on the team? Tied for 2nd in short handed points.

These two have been two of the more important players on this team. What evidence is there to support the notion they won't be again next season?
Well, for starters, Boyle didn't play nearly this well last year, and I'm pretty sure nobody saw him connecting for 20+ goals and being an impact like he is this year. And, most of that was in the first-half of the season. Since Feb 1st, he's scored 3 goals, and currently in the midst of a 10-game goal drought. This isn't to say that I don't think Boyle deserves a return contract and that I don't want him to play for us, his impact is largely defensive and the "grind" type of style we tend to play more-so than offensive.

Prust is the same story really. He's been a feel-good story since he came here. Great trade obviously, but people shouldn't get overly excited. He's a fourth-liner on a good team. Debatable whether or not he should have won the Steven McDonald over Callahan. If Cally didn't get injured, I say no way he wins.

Hagelin has just as much of a chance of never cracking the lineup as he does of cracking the lineup, albeit as a bottom-six forward or even the rare chance of being a top forward.

There isn't much evidence these players won't succeed for the first time or again, but there also isn't much evidence that they will either.

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04-12-2011, 11:39 AM
  #182
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You believe Kreider is a top-6 NHL player RIGHT NOW. .. Let Hagelin skate a couple of shifts before assuming he can replace a guy like Fedotenko in our line-up.

I'm by no means an Avery fan, but I doubt a rookie is guaranteed to outplay #16.

You seem like a guy who makes premature statements. Hopefully I'm wrong, and you're right. I certainly won't complain.

Really?

Several rookies HAVE out played Avery. Avery doesn't have a regular shift in the NHL, right now. Zuccarello and Stepan have passed Avery on the priority list.

And, I'm NOT the only one who says that bout Kreider. Several well respected people who make a living in Pro hockey have also made the same claim...yet, it's getting hard to take anything I say seriously?

People are calling Kreider an idiot in the other thread, with NO evidence that Kreider is actually going to stay in BC, yet, I'm hard to take seriously?

Ryan McDonagh wasn't ready according to most on the boards, and Valentenko was WAY ahead of him on the depth chart... I said there was no way that was the case. The Rangers promised McDonagh a shot in the NHL at some point this year. Yet here we are with McDonagh skating 20+ minutes in the NHL and Valentenko is still in Hartford.

I said Del Zotto would make the team months before camp broke in 2009. Why? Because i pay attention to what people in the organization say about their players. Clark was on NHL radio in July of 2009 stating Del Zotto would be given that opportunity. According to most here, he needed another season on the OHL.

He may not be 100% NHL ready, that didn't stop him from playing significant time in the NHL the last two years, including a 37 point rookie season at 19 years of age.

When EVERY person associated with the organization says player 'x' is going to be a big part of the team very soon, I pay attention.

Sather, Clark, McGuire (RIP), Pierre McGwire, Graves, Tortorella, and Schoenfeld, many associated with the NCAA, can't all be wrong about Kreider because some posters on Hf say so...

Graves, who is involved with the Rangers organization, said the summer Stepan was drafted, that he would be in the NHL as soon as he left school, and would be a top line center... he had filled that role, his first year out of school, for periods of time, played all 82 games, and put up 40 points.

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Old
04-12-2011, 11:43 AM
  #183
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Look at Boyles last 30 games or so..That is my evidence..I hope im wrong but thats my thoughts...Listen we could go round and round..Your best 4th line in Hockey is way more outrageous than what I stated..How can you say Hagelin will be better than Fedotenko? That is insane..before the youngster even has his first Pro shift..You are the Glenn Beck of HF...




Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Boyle won't score 20 goals again? What evidence is there to support that?

Hagelin might not skate an NHL shift? What evidence is there to support that?

Prust is Prust? You mean other then Callahan the hardest working player on the team? Tied for 2nd in short handed points.

These two have been two of the more important players on this team. What evidence is there to support the notion they won't be again next season?

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Old
04-12-2011, 11:45 AM
  #184
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Prust is Prust...that was a compliment..Love Prust as a hard working 4th liner..We know what we are getting w/Prust..Heart,grit,passion every shift..Prust is a given.

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04-12-2011, 11:46 AM
  #185
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Well, for starters, Boyle didn't play nearly this well last year, and I'm pretty sure nobody saw him connecting for 20+ goals and being an impact like he is this year. And, most of that was in the first-half of the season. Since Feb 1st, he's scored 3 goals, and currently in the midst of a 10-game goal drought. This isn't to say that I don't think Boyle deserves a return contract and that I don't want him to play for us, his impact is largely defensive and the "grind" type of style we tend to play more-so than offensive.

Prust is the same story really. He's been a feel-good story since he came here. Great trade obviously, but people shouldn't get overly excited. He's a fourth-liner on a good team. Debatable whether or not he should have won the Steven McDonald over Callahan. If Cally didn't get injured, I say no way he wins.

Hagelin has just as much of a chance of never cracking the lineup as he does of cracking the lineup, albeit as a bottom-six forward or even the rare chance of being a top forward.

There isn't much evidence these players won't succeed for the first time or again, but there also isn't much evidence that they will either.

The argument here isn't weather or not these guys are anything more then 4th line players.

Boyle and Prust play big roles 5v5 and on the PK.

They face other team's top offensive players consistently.

As long as they remain dependable in that role, Tortorella will afford them the opportunity. Scoring opportunities are a by product, I don't see how it won't be next year.

Callahan was a mediocre 3rd line grinder at most, Tortorella's faith in his defensive responsibilities and hard work, Callahan turned into a legitimate top 6 player.

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04-12-2011, 11:50 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by surf View Post
Look at Boyles last 30 games or so..That is my evidence..I hope im wrong but thats my thoughts...Listen we could go round and round..Your best 4th line in Hockey is way more outrageous than what I stated..How can you say Hagelin will be better than Fedotenko? That is insane..before the youngster even has his first Pro shift..You are the Glenn Beck of HF...
Yeah, but players go through stretches where they don't score goals.

Stamkos scored how many goals in the second half?

IMO it doesn't matter if he never scores 20 again. He brings more to the table then that.

How weren't the Boyle/Prust tandem one of, if not the best 4th line tandem in the NHL this season?

I'm crazy because rookies are gong to make the roster? OK. It's been happening every year since the lockout.

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04-12-2011, 01:06 PM
  #187
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I hardly think that providing a heavy as a means of reducing the strain on Prust constitutes coddling him. As I said, it's only a matter of time.
Not to sound insensitive, but so what? Yeah, he may get hurt at some point. But so might anyone who fights. Brashear and Boogaard are both "heavies" and both got hurt. Even Orr missed time this year due to injuries. Bringing in a heavy doesn't make Prust any safer because he's still going to stand up to anyone and everyone.

We should be more concerned with our skill players blocking shots and breaking bones than we should be about Prust potentially getting hurt in a fight. As much as I like Prust, he isn't more important to this team than Callahan or Dubinsky, both of whom have missed time the last 2 years due to broken bones from blocking shots.

If you can find a heavyweight version of Prust, I'd be all for it. But barring that, I have no interest. If a player's sole contribution is fighting, I don't want him on this team.

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Old
04-12-2011, 05:13 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Not to sound insensitive, but so what? Yeah, he may get hurt at some point. But so might anyone who fights. Brashear and Boogaard are both "heavies" and both got hurt. Even Orr missed time this year due to injuries. Bringing in a heavy doesn't make Prust any safer because he's still going to stand up to anyone and everyone.

We should be more concerned with our skill players blocking shots and breaking bones than we should be about Prust potentially getting hurt in a fight. As much as I like Prust, he isn't more important to this team than Callahan or Dubinsky, both of whom have missed time the last 2 years due to broken bones from blocking shots.

If you can find a heavyweight version of Prust, I'd be all for it. But barring that, I have no interest. If a player's sole contribution is fighting, I don't want him on this team.
Prust is valuable to the team, with his tremendous forechecking and tireless PK effort. His physical streak is also valuable, though not nearly to the extent that the rest of his game is. And yes, he will fight anyone and everyone--but he shouldn't have to. I don't want him feeling compelled to answer the bell to a guy like Mike Rupp or Zach Stortini. You provide an actual heavyweight, and those guys aren't chasing Prust all over the ice trying to fight.

And not just Prust. We had Boyle go at it with Jody Shelley earlier in the year. Matt Martin prodded Michael Sauer into a fight just recently. These are situations that could potentially be avoided if we were to carry a heavy into certain games, particularly against division opponents like the Isles and Flyers that we know will bring their own heavies to the game.

Of course, Prust (and to an extent, Boyle and Sauer) will still fight. I don't dispute that. But I'd wager that they'd fight less, and less frequently fight actual fighters. It's just about preservation. I'm going to be pissed when Prust or Sauer is goaded into a fight by an opposing heavy, and end up concussed as a result. And it will happen. I feel like it's much less likely if we bring our own fighter. Now, if our heavy gets hurt? Well, that sucks, but that's to be expected for a guy who is paid to fight.

I'm not advocating for signing some premier heavyweight to a multi-year, multi-million dollar contract like we've done with Brashear and Boogaard recently. I'm advocating signing a heavy to a one year, near league minimum deal, and dressing him only 30 times or so per season. Does that mean Avery or Christensen, or whatever AHL scrub we have as an injury call-up will have to sit on occasion? Sure, and who cares? If it helps keep our more important players healthier, I'm all for it.

And I would absolutely love to bring in a "heavyweight version of Prust," though I'm not sure who out there fits that bill and would be available. Failing that, bring in someone else for the short term and for cheap.

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Old
04-12-2011, 05:19 PM
  #189
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Ill take Prust over Boogie anyday. Now can this dumb argument stop here about boyle and prust etc. It was about a rumor and it was even reported today that Boogaard was sent home. To be honest, i think its best. There is no place on this team for him, especially next season, competition for spots will only get tougher within the next 2 years. If he retires/go to khl, that would be great for us. Money off the cap with no probs.

START TRIMMING THE FAT. I love avery and drury...ive said before avery is one of the most beloved rangers in the the 2000s, top 5 for sure, but next year are their last as rangers.

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Old
04-12-2011, 06:12 PM
  #190
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http://www.nyrangersblog.com/2011-ar...sent-home.html

and for everyone questioning dagoon this came out today:

Larry Brooks at the New York Post reports that the Rangers have sent Derek Boogaard, who has not played since sustaining a concussion on Dec. 9th, home.

Boogaard had started to skate on his own and participated in several optional morning skates at the practice rink during the middle of March even though a return this year had been ruled out.

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Old
04-12-2011, 06:35 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by HenrikO'doyle View Post
http://www.nyrangersblog.com/2011-ar...sent-home.html

and for everyone questioning dagoon this came out today:

Larry Brooks at the New York Post reports that the Rangers have sent Derek Boogaard, who has not played since sustaining a concussion on Dec. 9th, home.

Boogaard had started to skate on his own and participated in several optional morning skates at the practice rink during the middle of March even though a return this year had been ruled out.
saw that, i believe he's done...............but how, is he going to retire or go on loan to KHL?

stupid signing........the end

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04-12-2011, 06:54 PM
  #192
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concussion aside, Boogaard seemed like the kind of UFA signings the Rangers employed pre-lockout.

Came to camp fat and out of shape looking to sit on his laurells and collect a paycheck based on who he WAS.

While I wish no harm on anyone, I am glad he's no longer going to be part of this team regardless how much I think we could use a bigger guy that can and wil fight.

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04-13-2011, 04:06 AM
  #193
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Regardless of how useless a player may be on the ice, you never want to see someone having to end his career because of something like this. I do not want him back on team again, but I hope he can go somewhere else, possibly to the KHL or something similar, and end his career on his own terms.

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04-13-2011, 04:29 AM
  #194
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On Boyle--I don't think he's ever played as much hockey as he's had to this year. A full NHL schedule with a regular shift throughout. I don't know if he's going to be a perennial 20 goal scorer but to say he's never going to do it again is kind of ridiculous. The guy has good hands and given enough opportunity I would think he's capable of doing it again. He led the team in shots on goal..

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04-13-2011, 04:37 AM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Prust is valuable to the team, with his tremendous forechecking and tireless PK effort. His physical streak is also valuable, though not nearly to the extent that the rest of his game is. And yes, he will fight anyone and everyone--but he shouldn't have to. I don't want him feeling compelled to answer the bell to a guy like Mike Rupp or Zach Stortini. You provide an actual heavyweight, and those guys aren't chasing Prust all over the ice trying to fight.

And not just Prust. We had Boyle go at it with Jody Shelley earlier in the year. Matt Martin prodded Michael Sauer into a fight just recently. These are situations that could potentially be avoided if we were to carry a heavy into certain games, particularly against division opponents like the Isles and Flyers that we know will bring their own heavies to the game.

Of course, Prust (and to an extent, Boyle and Sauer) will still fight. I don't dispute that. But I'd wager that they'd fight less, and less frequently fight actual fighters. It's just about preservation. I'm going to be pissed when Prust or Sauer is goaded into a fight by an opposing heavy, and end up concussed as a result. And it will happen. I feel like it's much less likely if we bring our own fighter. Now, if our heavy gets hurt? Well, that sucks, but that's to be expected for a guy who is paid to fight.

I'm not advocating for signing some premier heavyweight to a multi-year, multi-million dollar contract like we've done with Brashear and Boogaard recently. I'm advocating signing a heavy to a one year, near league minimum deal, and dressing him only 30 times or so per season. Does that mean Avery or Christensen, or whatever AHL scrub we have as an injury call-up will have to sit on occasion? Sure, and who cares? If it helps keep our more important players healthier, I'm all for it.

And I would absolutely love to bring in a "heavyweight version of Prust," though I'm not sure who out there fits that bill and would be available. Failing that, bring in someone else for the short term and for cheap.
Very good post. Exactly my sentiment

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04-13-2011, 07:45 AM
  #196
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I don't think we should sign any big name enforcer anymore, with the busts of Brashear and Boogaard. I think we should see who we have in the organization and start preparing that player for this role, with a focus on the rest of the game and what's to be expected in NY.

Renney did a great job of that with a young Orr and that is what I want repeated.

This role is a young man's province and we should look to a developing player who can be molded so as not to be a liability on the ice and still hungry enough to do the dirty work.

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04-13-2011, 08:46 AM
  #197
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This thread seems odd...

For one, Boogaard said that he came to the Rangers at the same weight he played at in Minnesota the past couple of years, and I believe it was because the Wild's coach wanted him that big (not 100% on that, the coach might just have not cared at all). When Tortorella told him he needed to lose weight, he did.

Then he gets a concussion and can't exercise at all, and now we're killing him for being out of shape? Yeah when you can't work out for months and months like that then you're probably gonna get out of shape and gain weight...especially when you're geared towards eating a whole lot of food to maintain yourself when you're lifting weights, practicing, and playing a pro sport.

I don't imagine this means he's done for sure, but that if he doesn't come to camp in real good shape next year then that could be it.

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04-13-2011, 09:15 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Prust is valuable to the team, with his tremendous forechecking and tireless PK effort. His physical streak is also valuable, though not nearly to the extent that the rest of his game is. And yes, he will fight anyone and everyone--but he shouldn't have to. I don't want him feeling compelled to answer the bell to a guy like Mike Rupp or Zach Stortini. You provide an actual heavyweight, and those guys aren't chasing Prust all over the ice trying to fight.

And not just Prust. We had Boyle go at it with Jody Shelley earlier in the year. Matt Martin prodded Michael Sauer into a fight just recently. These are situations that could potentially be avoided if we were to carry a heavy into certain games, particularly against division opponents like the Isles and Flyers that we know will bring their own heavies to the game.

Of course, Prust (and to an extent, Boyle and Sauer) will still fight. I don't dispute that. But I'd wager that they'd fight less, and less frequently fight actual fighters. It's just about preservation. I'm going to be pissed when Prust or Sauer is goaded into a fight by an opposing heavy, and end up concussed as a result. And it will happen. I feel like it's much less likely if we bring our own fighter. Now, if our heavy gets hurt? Well, that sucks, but that's to be expected for a guy who is paid to fight.

I'm not advocating for signing some premier heavyweight to a multi-year, multi-million dollar contract like we've done with Brashear and Boogaard recently. I'm advocating signing a heavy to a one year, near league minimum deal, and dressing him only 30 times or so per season. Does that mean Avery or Christensen, or whatever AHL scrub we have as an injury call-up will have to sit on occasion? Sure, and who cares? If it helps keep our more important players healthier, I'm all for it.

And I would absolutely love to bring in a "heavyweight version of Prust," though I'm not sure who out there fits that bill and would be available. Failing that, bring in someone else for the short term and for cheap.
Standing ovation to you....

That was excellent.

This is what I have been trying to say for a year...maybe, I don't come across that way but certainly what I meant.

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04-13-2011, 10:04 AM
  #199
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Signing and dressing someone for 30 games, ontop of him playing 5 minutes or less in those 30 games, providing nothing when they're on the ice in that time...is a waste of both money and roster space.

Sorry, no heavyweight is needed.

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04-13-2011, 10:05 AM
  #200
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Callahan was a mediocre 3rd line grinder at most, Tortorella's faith in his defensive responsibilities and hard work, Callahan turned into a legitimate top 6 player.
No way. Since he was sent down to the Wolfpack in 2007-08, and returned, he's been a phenomenal defensive player and one of the league's best grinders. Even when Renney was still the coach, Callahan was the team's best all-around skater almost every shift.

Other than giving him more icetime and more freedom to do things offensively (which wasn't much of a bold move; it's not like anyone else on the team was going to step into that role), I don't see what Tortorella has done to transform Callahan. Tortorella started leaning on Callahan from the moment he got here, and why wouldn't he? Any coach would have done the same. It doesn't take more than a few shifts to see that every time Callahan is on the ice, the other team's game plan is disrupted.

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