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Old
04-12-2011, 06:13 PM
  #101
leesmith
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I think today's article was a smokescreen. It seems like it was almost PUT out there for the rest of the league to read. Paraphrasing: "Jake is still a great player, loads of potential, he just needs to get in shape." An effort to raise his trade value? Funny that we didn't read articles like this about any of the other players.

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04-12-2011, 06:55 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
I think today's article was a smokescreen. It seems like it was almost PUT out there for the rest of the league to read. Paraphrasing: "Jake is still a great player, loads of potential, he just needs to get in shape." An effort to raise his trade value? Funny that we didn't read articles like this about any of the other players.
I thought just the opposite. Why publicly declare his fitness to be an issue if you are trying to trade him?

And Mason received a similar though not in BOLD HEADLINES comment about his performance and conditioning.

Both are rumored to be shopped, but I hope Jake stays. Mase... not so much.

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04-12-2011, 07:15 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
I think today's article was a smokescreen. It seems like it was almost PUT out there for the rest of the league to read. Paraphrasing: "Jake is still a great player, loads of potential, he just needs to get in shape." An effort to raise his trade value? Funny that we didn't read articles like this about any of the other players.
I'd imagine that GMs are smart enough to do more background work then simply reading a dispatch article if they're trading for a player.

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04-12-2011, 07:47 PM
  #104
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Howson was trying to sell fans on players like Voracek, Brassard and Filatov stepping up last season. Changes weren't made because the assumption was made that they were ready to become dominant players in the NHL.

My take is that Howson is trying to explain why. And "conditioning" may be code for numerous other things - staying out too late partying, not taking things seriously enough off-ice, and so forth. But those things all go together.

Arniel is the one on the bench observing the players, and while Jake looks like he's skating well, it's possible him being winded is impacting his play. How many times has there been a decent entry to the zone then Jake makes a stupid pass or coughs up the puck? If he's tired, not thinking or too gassed to make a play especially by driving to the net, then perhaps that's part of the issue. I'm not sure it is, but it would be nice to think that Jake just improving his conditioning will fix those types of problems.

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04-12-2011, 08:58 PM
  #105
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If the Blue Jackets where in the playoffs this 'fat' drama wouldn't even be a subject, every season (other than one) I have to read about conditioning, enough already. It’s seems the Blue Jackets have more conditioning issues than the remaining teams in the league combined! It’s an excuse!

The fact of the matter is Voracek is a top ten first round pick with three years of NHL experience and a marginal scoring percentage of 7.7. If the dude would learn how to score goals instead of passing the puck to Rick Nash he would be a keeper.

As for the last 13 games without a point the entire team tanked so I can't put too much weight on that, the important thing is he was a significant part of that collapse. I'm hoping Voracek is traded but not for a bunch of used pucks, he has some value albeit limited.

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04-12-2011, 09:07 PM
  #106
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Ironically, his best friend Pavelec got an identical message..

http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-thrashe...thrashers_blog

Quote:
Dudley said long gone are the days when players get in shape during training camp. Today, your pre-camp condition is as good as it will get.

“Specific to Pavs, we think he can come better prepared,” Dudley said. “The one thing athletes have to understand is what they report in in September has a direct impact on their play in February. There is no question about it. It’s a difficult thing during a National Hockey League season to maintain conditioning. Whatever you drop, or if you do maintain, that’s the level you came in. You are not going up.


Last edited by Juneemoon: 04-12-2011 at 09:27 PM.
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04-12-2011, 09:20 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juneemoon View Post
Ironically, his best friend Pavelec got an identical message..

http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-thrashe...thrashers_blog
Are there any poor conditioning issues being reported in the media for 16 playoff teams?

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Old
04-12-2011, 09:36 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by TigerBlood1 View Post
I think that Jake, Filatov will most likely be gone. I think that we could get a 2nd for jake and prob a 3rd for Filatov. Idk why I think this, I just have a feeling
The chances of a second-rounder in this draft becoming equal to what Voracek currently brings to the table (never mind the future) are pretty slim. Therefore, the idea that Voracek would or should be traded for a second-rounder in this draft is crazy talk.

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04-12-2011, 09:43 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Derby View Post
I thought just the opposite. Why publicly declare his fitness to be an issue if you are trying to trade him?

And Mason received a similar though not in BOLD HEADLINES comment about his performance and conditioning.

Both are rumored to be shopped, but I hope Jake stays. Mase... not so much.
For the same reason that scouts are more impressed by a prospect who's been pounding the donuts than by one who's been in the gym. The thinking is that if a player is productive when he's out of shape, he'll be much more productive when he's in shape, and every player who wants to make the NHL has to be in excellent shape. A decent number of out-of-shape prospects get the message, but some don't.

As for why an NHL player would have an article about this written about him, it's basically a statement to the rest of the league that says that Voracek's seeming stagnation is actually due to his conditioning rather than anything else. GMs are like dumb women, who will look at a guy and say, "He may be an alcoholic, a drug user, a father of kids by five different women, a chronic cheater, a jerk, and someone with a hair-trigger temper who's physically abusive to everyone around him, but [i]he'll change for me[i]."

That's why anyone with a shred of top-level talent will get chance after chance no matter how much he gets into off the field of play. Terrell Owens may run himself off of numerous teams by being a loudmouth and a divisive presence, but as long as he can play, someone will honestly believe they can change him.

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04-12-2011, 09:51 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palinka View Post
For the same reason that scouts are more impressed by a prospect who's been pounding the donuts than by one who's been in the gym. The thinking is that if a player is productive when he's out of shape, he'll be much more productive when he's in shape, and every player who wants to make the NHL has to be in excellent shape. A decent number of out-of-shape prospects get the message, but some don't.

As for why an NHL player would have an article about this written about him, it's basically a statement to the rest of the league that says that Voracek's seeming stagnation is actually due to his conditioning rather than anything else. GMs are like dumb women, who will look at a guy and say, "He may be an alcoholic, a drug user, a father of kids by five different women, a chronic cheater, a jerk, and someone with a hair-trigger temper who's physically abusive to everyone around him, but [i]he'll change for me[i]."

That's why anyone with a shred of top-level talent will get chance after chance no matter how much he gets into off the field of play. Terrell Owens may run himself off of numerous teams by being a loudmouth and a divisive presence, but as long as he can play, someone will honestly believe they can change him.
No player is without vise of some sort off the ice if one wants to probe enough, if a guy can score 40 goals every season, rarely miss open nets and maintain a 50% shootout status he can party all he wants-I could care less..

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04-12-2011, 11:26 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Palinka View Post
The chances of a second-rounder in this draft becoming equal to what Voracek currently brings to the table (never mind the future) are pretty slim. Therefore, the idea that Voracek would or should be traded for a second-rounder in this draft is crazy talk.
Hey look, something we agree with. Trading Jake for a second round pick would be idiotic to the extreme.

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04-13-2011, 09:14 AM
  #112
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Hey look, something we agree with. Trading Jake for a second round pick would be idiotic to the extreme.
This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
The dead rising from the grave!
Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

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04-13-2011, 09:18 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by leek View Post
This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
The dead rising from the grave!
Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!
If we're wrong we go to jail.... But if were right, and we can stop this thing.... Leeky, you will have saved the lives of hundreds of CBJ fans....

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04-13-2011, 10:58 AM
  #114
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Worse thing that Jake did was be a buddy of Commodore. That guy led him down the primrose path.

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04-13-2011, 11:14 AM
  #115
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Worse thing that Jake did was be a buddy of Commodore. That guy led him down the primrose path.
Is that like Primrose Lane? I hear life's a holiday there.

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04-13-2011, 03:39 PM
  #116
Robert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leek View Post
This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
The dead rising from the grave!
Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!
Nah, just infinite losing hockey and dreams of the playoffs..

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04-13-2011, 04:37 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Nah, just infinite losing hockey and dreams of the playoffs..
...there's an obvious way to continue the movie scene quotes in reply to this, but it'd probably get me infracted for flaming.

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04-14-2011, 01:30 AM
  #118
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How would Columbus feel about Voracek for the Bruins (Tor) 9th pick?
As a Bruins fan I think that is over-payment but also intriguing. Maybe expand a bit to include Filtatov? Something like 1st + Peverley for Voracek and Filatov?

Bruins don't really go European very often but all I feel they need is some potential game breaking talent and future top liners to play with Seguin. Also the sooner the better since Boston is looking to compete now.

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04-14-2011, 01:33 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quezzle E View Post
How would Columbus feel about Voracek for the Bruins (Tor) 9th pick?
As a Bruins fan I think that is over-payment but also intriguing. Maybe expand a bit to include Filtatov? Something like 1st + Peverley for Voracek and Filatov?

Bruins don't really go European very often but all I feel they need is some potential game breaking talent and future top liners to play with Seguin. Also the sooner the better since Boston is looking to compete now.

Voracek for the Toronto pick is fair value, he's not developing and could benefit from a change of scenery. Not sure why Boston would want Filatov though.

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04-14-2011, 01:35 AM
  #120
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Would 7th + 9th get us 1st + *?

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04-14-2011, 06:46 AM
  #121
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why are we talking about trading roster players for picks? voracek only goes for another roster player. picks for roster players. we don't need more picks or to trade assets to move up the draft.

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04-14-2011, 07:22 AM
  #122
pete goegan
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
why are we talking about trading roster players for picks? voracek only goes for another roster player. picks for roster players. we don't need more picks or to trade assets to move up the draft.
I'm with you, X.

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04-14-2011, 08:54 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
why are we talking about trading roster players for picks? voracek only goes for another roster player. picks for roster players. we don't need more picks or to trade assets to move up the draft.
Because we're tired of the losing, and we want the team to get better because if they don't make the playoffs pretty soon they might as well just move the team it makes me so depressed and angry so let's trade away a player who hasn't lived up t billing for a draft pick to add to the prospect pool of players that will help the team win after it moves.

Or something.

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04-14-2011, 09:16 AM
  #124
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My thoughts re: Voracek (in order of priority):

1. Move him as part of a package to acquire a good defenseman

2. Keep him on board

Trading him for draft picks seems useless to me unless we can turn those draft picks into a player who can help us starting next season. Our team needs to improve NOW, not a few years down the road.

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04-14-2011, 09:20 AM
  #125
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why are we talking about trading roster players for picks? voracek only goes for another roster player. picks for roster players. we don't need more picks or to trade assets to move up the draft.
I would rather get a roster piece for Jake. If he has the issues that some are complaining about, then a 9th overall pick might not be a bad return so that we don't commit the 3 million.

The problem isn't getting the potential 3 million off the books, it's we have no idea what Howson is going to do with that 3 million.

I know this years draft is supposed to be weak, but two top 10 picks would still be a strong position. You could possibly trade both to move up, trade one for another roster player and still have a strong pick left over.

If Jake is wrong for this team, then moving him for a top 10 pick is a very viable solution if you can't get the return you would like in the form of a roster player. If he's wrong for the team, then re-signing him is the wrong thing to do.

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