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Marty St. Louis Gets high sticked...

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Old
04-15-2011, 09:27 AM
  #151
schmidtlesauce
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leaving hockey for a minute. in football, there is a stomping penalty. however being a d lineman, i always got stepped on in piles and when i was making tackles. i put myself in that position. noone deliberately stomped on me and thus, no penalty. accidents happen, its a fast sport. get over it.

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04-15-2011, 09:31 AM
  #152
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I consider myself very impartial here, Actually I'd side with TBL well before Pitt. But, that isn't a high stick,or a slash.

MSL was falling, his head was well below the top of the dasher boards when he was struck in the mouth. The right call, of no call, was made on the ice.

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04-15-2011, 10:01 AM
  #153
Xenophobia Catalyst
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My thoughts on this is that it was accidental but at the same time you need to have control of your stick which the pens player clearly does not. Also some have said that MSL only gets hit in the face since he is lower on the ice due to falling yet the NHL has no problem calling a head shot hit on a player when the guy they hit is stretched out reaching for a puck thus lowering his head into the direct path of the checker. It is my personal opinion that this type of play should fall into that same kind of category as a regular hit deemed clean vs hit that would be clean but the player who got hit was in a bad position and his head got hit. NHL still calls it a hit to the head. Within reason the same should happen for a stick to the head.

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04-15-2011, 10:05 AM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astraphobia Catalyst View Post
My thoughts on this is that it was accidental but at the same time you need to have control of your stick which the pens player clearly does not. Also some have said that MSL only gets hit in the face since he is lower on the ice due to falling yet the NHL has no problem calling a head shot hit on a player when the guy they hit is stretched out reaching for a puck thus lowering his head into the direct path of the checker. It is my personal opinion that this type of play should fall into that same kind of category as a regular hit deemed clean vs hit that would be clean but the player who got hit was in a bad position and his head got hit. NHL still calls it a hit to the head. Within reason the same should happen for a stick to the head.
The difference is: I don't think you can call any of those headshots accidental. Look, I'm a Pens fan and stand by my opinion that Steckels "hit" on Crosby was an accident. It's not Steckels fault he's 5-6 inches taller than Crosby. So why suspend him? Same here, it was a freak accident, move on.

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04-15-2011, 10:07 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Milliardo View Post
If it's not deliberately, the ref can't call it a slash. And accidental contact with the stick is not a slash in the rule book.
where does it say if it's "not deliberate"? where does it say "accidental contact"?

I don't think this was a slashing, but you're inserting things into the rulebook that aren't there

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=27011

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04-15-2011, 10:11 AM
  #156
Milliardo
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Originally Posted by pirate94 View Post
where does it say if it's "not deliberate"? where does it say "accidental contact"?

I don't think this was a slashing, but you're inserting things into the rulebook that aren't there

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=27011
Here: "Any forceful or powerful chop with the stick on an opponent’s body, the opponent’s stick, or on or near the opponent’s hands that, in the judgment of the Referee, is not an attempt to play the puck, shall be penalized as slashing.
"

IMO, an accidental chop does not exist, a chop is always deliberate.

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04-15-2011, 10:13 AM
  #157
pirate94
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Originally Posted by Against all odds View Post
He had control of his stick, MSL didnt have control of his body. Were talking about a guy who hade his stick at ice level, pretty damn responsilbe if you ask me; we are not talking about a guy skating with his stick in the air.

Edit: MSL had his face on the ice(unintentionally), thats where sticks happen to be.Thats like having a guy go to a place with a buch of holes and fall in, is it the hole's fault. Weird analogy rite? Michalek turned whipping his stick around (at ice level) where sticks usually are, he probably didnt expect, MSL's face to be there. Of course MSL fell, but him being hit was his fault, his face was where sticks are.

You said it right there, Michalek turned, whipping his stick with one hand, that's not control unless he deliberately meant to whip his stick around, which is a different ball of wax. He didn't know MSL's face was there, but that's not MSL's problem, that's Michalek, if he had control of his stick and not whipping it, this wouldn't be a discussion. Michalek was overly aggressive going into the corner. It happens, but in my eyes it was a missed call based on the rulebook.
This doesn't really bug me too much that it was missed, lots of stuff goes uncalled.

It's a good discussion though

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04-15-2011, 10:17 AM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milliardo View Post
Here: "Any forceful or powerful chop with the stick on an opponent’s body, the opponent’s stick, or on or near the opponent’s hands that, in the judgment of the Referee, is not an attempt to play the puck, shall be penalized as slashing.
"

IMO, an accidental chop does not exist, a chop is always deliberate.
And that proves my point. it doesn't say one thing about intent. it says "ANY", that means, one handed, two-handed, deliberate, accidental, etc....

That's your opinion though. Intent is in the eye of the beholder, which is why it doesn't say "must have intent to injure" which is a different rule set altogether

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04-15-2011, 10:19 AM
  #159
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It's a good discussion though
I agree, it's rare that such a discussion actually stayes civilized and people argue with facts and not namecalling and homerism.

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04-15-2011, 10:20 AM
  #160
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And that proves my point. it doesn't say one thing about intent. it says "ANY", that means, one handed, two-handed, deliberate, accidental, etc....

That's your opinion though. Intent is in the eye of the beholder, which is why it doesn't say "must have intent to injure" which is a different rule set altogether
It says chop and a chop is always deliberate, that's the point. It was accidental and therefor not a chop.

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04-15-2011, 10:46 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Milliardo View Post
It says chop and a chop is always deliberate, that's the point. It was accidental and therefor not a chop.
a chop is a motion, not an intention. I'm on your side here in general, but the word chop in no way implies intent.

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04-15-2011, 10:52 AM
  #162
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In that line of thinking why doesn't Crosby wear and airbag on his helmet? maybe side mirrors on his visor to watch where he's skating?
Why doesn't Rick DiPietro wear a harness to lessen the impact on his knees?
Because those are not practical solutions, whereas full face protection is.

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04-15-2011, 11:02 AM
  #163
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I heard a Bolts fan last night who said that the non-tripping call on Kovalev right before he scored the goal was intentional and that the refs knew the puck was going to come back to him. Not making that up.
Sure

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04-15-2011, 11:29 AM
  #164
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The way some of you are arguing against there being a penalty you would think that Chara could take baseball swings on MSL every time they are on the ice.

No doubt it was unintentional. But a player has to have control of his stick. I've seen it called both ways before, but obviously the stage on which it happened and the severity of injury tempers the response it should get. It was the wrong call, and given the circumstances in the game with the number of weak calls on Bolts and non-calls on Pens despite regular season reputations, it just compounds frustrations.

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04-15-2011, 11:40 AM
  #165
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St. Louis tripped Michalek

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04-15-2011, 01:01 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Crosbyfan View Post
Because those are not practical solutions, whereas full face protection is.
Tell you what, you start the initiative on full face masks for players in the NHL. come back when you have over 40% wearing them.

good luck with that

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04-15-2011, 02:27 PM
  #167
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Tell you what, you start the initiative on full face masks for players in the NHL. come back when you have over 40% wearing them.

good luck with that


Ironic that a week ago Steve Yzerman is recommending that his players all where half shields next year. This may or may not have helped St. Louis depending on the angle; but still relevant.


http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/stor...to-wear-visors

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04-15-2011, 02:34 PM
  #168
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This discussion is still going on?

It was a fluky play that could have been called, but it wasn't.

Get over it!

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04-15-2011, 03:16 PM
  #169
pirate94
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Originally Posted by czwalga View Post
Ironic that a week ago Steve Yzerman is recommending that his players all where half shields next year. This may or may not have helped St. Louis depending on the angle; but still relevant.


http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/stor...to-wear-visors
recommending it is one thing.

regardless of what he had on his head the stick still hits him in the mouth. visor or not.

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04-15-2011, 03:17 PM
  #170
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Seems like every single Bolts fan thinks that it was a must call penalty while nearly everybody else at least agrees that it was borderline at best. To me if headshots aren't inherently illegal because it is unrealistic to expect players to be that responsible in a fast, physical, contact sport, then it is also unrealistic to expect a player to have complete control and awareness of where there stick is in every possible scenario. The way I see it, the player on the giving end in this situation bears little to no responsibility similar to that of a player who dishes out a legal headshot to a player who is skating with their head down in open ice. Much less so, actually, as the former was completely unintentional and more difficult to avoid.

That's not to say that I'd blame St. Louis, he did simply fall down after all, but I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense to put the blame on Michalek. And let's be honest here, the rulebook is very ambiguous when it comes to this specific play, so I can see why the referees decided to let it go in a tightly contested playoff matchup instead of allowing it to potentially decide a game, and perhaps ultimately the series on what many would consider an unwarranted penalty.

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04-15-2011, 03:21 PM
  #171
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Instead the refs called Lundin when Letang grabbed his stick, and hit himself in the face with it

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04-15-2011, 03:24 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
Seems like every single Bolts fan thinks that it was a must call penalty while nearly everybody else at least agrees that it was borderline at best. To me if headshots aren't inherently illegal because it is unrealistic to expect players to be that responsible in a fast, physical, contact sport, then it is also unrealistic to expect a player to have complete control and awareness of where there stick is in every possible scenario. The way I see it, the player on the giving end in this situation bears little to no responsibility similar to that of a player who dishes out a legal headshot to a player who is skating with their head down in open ice. Much less so, actually, as the former was completely unintentional and more difficult to avoid.

That's not to say that I'd blame St. Louis, he did simply fall down after all, but I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense to put the blame on Michalek. And let's be honest here, the rulebook is very ambiguous when it comes to this specific play, so I can see why the referees decided to let it go in a tightly contested playoff matchup instead of allowing it to potentially decide a game, and perhaps ultimately the series on what many would consider an unwarranted penalty.
Meh, if it was Crosby that got it, it would be going the other way from Pens fans and i'd still have the exact same stance on it.

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04-15-2011, 03:27 PM
  #173
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Has anyone on TV, radio, or internet said anything definitive on whether it was a call or not? Like McKenzie or someone on NHL radio?

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04-15-2011, 03:35 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by pirate94 View Post
Meh, if it was Crosby that got it, it would be going the other way from Pens fans and i'd still have the exact same stance on it.
Certainly true, however the fact that fans of other teams are coming out of the woodworks to support the non-call speaks volumes, especially when the team benefiting from it is arguably the most hated team on HF.

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04-15-2011, 03:44 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
Has anyone on TV, radio, or internet said anything definitive on whether it was a call or not? Like McKenzie or someone on NHL radio?
"It's done, it's hockey," St. Louis said. "Sometimes you'll go to the net and get a puck in the face. You get stitches. I'm just happy it wasn't (a higher stick), it might have concussed me. I'll take the teeth instead of the concussion."

Martin St.Louis, per Lightning Strikes blog

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/lightn...-careless-play

EDIT: Sounds like Marty might have moved on...

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