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John Zeiler Will Not Be Recalled

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Old
04-15-2011, 07:56 PM
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
Is the 6th counting Kopitar or Schenn because with Kopitar its only 5, Kopi, JJ,DD,Simmonds and Clifford.
Justin Williams too. Smyth and Greene had really short stints in the AHL for what it's worth. It just shows you don't have to play a bunch of games down there to be successful and cement a place on a good NHL team.

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04-15-2011, 07:59 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
Is the 6th counting Kopitar or Schenn because with Kopitar its only 5, Kopi, JJ,DD,Simmonds and Clifford.
I am prepared to get slaughtered on this one, but does anyone think Kopitar wouldn't have had such a steep learning curve if he had spent a year in the AHL???

Granted different regime, different coaches, but the idea is still the same...

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04-15-2011, 07:59 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
Justin Williams too. Smyth and Greene had really short stints in the AHL for what it's worth. It just shows you don't have to play a bunch of games down there to be successful and cement a place on a good NHL team.
Ok Thought you were just going with guys who started their careers with the Kings

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04-15-2011, 08:11 PM
  #229
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I am prepared to get slaughtered on this one, but does anyone think Kopitar wouldn't have had such a steep learning curve if he had spent a year in the AHL???

Yep. Kopitar was kept up for marketing.

Don't get me wrong, he earned his spot. He played great. But, if the question is, "would Kopitar have been a better player sooner with time in the minors?", for me the answer is, "Yes." Because the league has changed to defensive scheme systems. Those are harder to learn, especially for skill players.

I think the thing is, guys like Anze, Schenn, Doughty, high level skill guys (and I'm also thinking about a lot of our prospects now in the system) - they will succeed. On every level. In almost every circumstance. It's not a question of success because they have talent to burn - they will play and be successful in the league.

The issue is, "what kind of success"? Statistic? Video highlights? There are guys with lots of points who retired without a ring. They didn't learn how to win the tough grinding games. There are teams that didn't win Cups until they learned how to play a system or work hard enough. Anyway, it's all about counter attack nowadays - that's the only time you see any great plays up the ice....


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04-15-2011, 08:12 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
I am prepared to get slaughtered on this one, but does anyone think Kopitar wouldn't have had such a steep learning curve if he had spent a year in the AHL???

Granted different regime, different coaches, but the idea is still the same...
61 points in 72 games as a rookie is a sharp learning curve? Now I'm going to get peppered with opinions backed by no facts and told I'm wrong. Damnit, why do I do this to myself?

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04-15-2011, 08:23 PM
  #231
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There's a difference between points and playoff wins, between individual MVP trophies and the Cup.

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04-15-2011, 08:23 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
61 points in 72 games as a rookie is a sharp learning curve? Now I'm going to get peppered with opinions backed by no facts and told I'm wrong. Damnit, why do I do this to myself?
Not talking points, unless you are saying that Kopitar as a rookie is the same Kopitar that we see today?

Kopitar is a much much much complete player now than when he first started, my question is, would he have found this 2nd gear sooner had he spent time in the AHL learning to be a pro? Keep in mind, part of the reason why Smyth was brought in, was to teach Kopitar to be a pro... so, would Kopitar possibly be hitting a 3rd gear now, if he had spent time in the minors?

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04-15-2011, 08:25 PM
  #233
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I'm glad Schenn is not being recalled. To bring him up seems pretty short sighted for a team which, hopefully because of success, will no doubt be running into cap issues in a few years.

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04-15-2011, 08:26 PM
  #234
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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahhaahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha haahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Lewis better replacement for Stoll than Schenn? Even I wouldn't say that's the right move and everyone here knows how much I LOVE Trevor. Ugh, can't say I'm surprised, another stupid move by management. How about keeping Lewis on the 4th line and making Schenn the replacement for Stoll. ****, this is ridiculous, John Zeiler is garbage

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04-15-2011, 08:31 PM
  #235
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mfw we still win game 2.

For some reason, although the universe wants Schenn in this series, Lombardi doesn't. It sucks and could be called a laughable decision but eff it. I'd rather use that energy hoping to see the same intensity we saw out of them last night, and believing that the Kings team we get can somehow find a way to steal home ice, as much as management seems to not want to help us make it happen.

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04-15-2011, 08:36 PM
  #236
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There's really no metric or stat or anything to determine whether or not a forward should be brought through the AHL. Half the league's top 30 scorers never even played in the AHL. Pavel Datsyuk is a great defensive forward, never played in the AHL. Guys like Mike Richards, Toews, they never saw AHL ice during a full season grind and people covet that kind of all-around play. Ryan Kesler played in the AHL for a while, didn't show much for offense his first few seasons in the NHL, and has bloomed into a great player. Eric Staal killed it in the AHL, then killed it even more the season after the lockout. Everyone's different. I believe defensemen really don't have any business developing in the NHL. There's like a handful who do. Not the same as forwards.

Kopitar would've been a better defensive forward if he had a better defensive coach than Marc Crawford. That's the way I see it.

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04-15-2011, 08:38 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Not talking points, unless you are saying that Kopitar as a rookie is the same Kopitar that we see today?

Kopitar is a much much much complete player now than when he first started, my question is, would he have found this 2nd gear sooner had he spent time in the AHL learning to be a pro? Keep in mind, part of the reason why Smyth was brought in, was to teach Kopitar to be a pro... so, would Kopitar possibly be hitting a 3rd gear now, if he had spent time in the minors?
His career has followed the normal trajectory. I don't know what a 3rd gear is, purely subjective, so I won't get into it. Kopitar was good right away and has gotten better each season. Most believe, like I do, that he needs to work on his offseason training and conditioning and he will become even better. Of course then you have the other fans who think he needs better wingers, which I believe is a factor as well. To answer your original question, no I don't think Anze would have been a better NHL player right away from playing a season in the AHL. Jack Johnson? Yes, absolutely.

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04-15-2011, 08:44 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
There's really no metric or stat or anything to determine whether or not a forward should be brought through the AHL. Half the league's top 30 scorers never even played in the AHL. Pavel Datsyuk is a great defensive forward, never played in the AHL. Guys like Mike Richards, Toews, they never saw AHL ice during a full season grind and people covet that kind of all-around play. Ryan Kesler played in the AHL for a while, didn't show much for offense his first few seasons in the NHL, and has bloomed into a great player. Eric Staal killed it in the AHL, then killed it even more the season after the lockout. Everyone's different. I believe defensemen really don't have any business developing in the NHL. There's like a handful who do. Not the same as forwards.

Kopitar would've been a better defensive forward if he had a better defensive coach than Marc Crawford. That's the way I see it.
Datsyuk played in a PRO league though, it was the Russian PRO league, faster than juniors, maybe not as fast as the AHL, maybe so, I really don't know on that.

But typically, there is no one right way to handle a prospect, but generally the guys on the front line, know how each prospect will handle themselves at each level of the game...

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04-15-2011, 08:45 PM
  #239
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Hammond :

Quote:
#LAKings now say Zeiler will NOT be recalled. Teams says he didn't have time to go through re-entry waivers. Oscar Moller will play instead

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04-15-2011, 08:46 PM
  #240
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Kopitar played in a pro league too, but I don't think it matters. Totally different styles of hockey.

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04-15-2011, 08:46 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Shellz View Post
Hammond :
Ya, I saw that too. Weird, it means they really don't want Schenn to play eh lol..

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04-15-2011, 08:46 PM
  #242
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All the angst for nothing.

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04-15-2011, 08:48 PM
  #243
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Too bad. I think Zeiler would have drawn some penalties.

Zeiler's the prototypical TM type of player. Simple, not too skilled and plays his ass off.

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04-15-2011, 08:49 PM
  #244
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you mean we yelled at each other over something that's not even going to happen?!?!

what the hell?

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04-15-2011, 08:51 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
His career has followed the normal trajectory. I don't know what a 3rd gear is, purely subjective, so I won't get into it. Kopitar was good right away and has gotten better each season. Most believe, like I do, that he needs to work on his offseason training and conditioning and he will become even better. Of course then you have the other fans who think he needs better wingers, which I believe is a factor as well. To answer your original question, no I don't think Anze would have been a better NHL player right away from playing a season in the AHL. Jack Johnson? Yes, absolutely.
Fair enough,

I don't know if he would have been better, but it's a fair question, could he have been?

Same question with Schenn I suppose, I don't think Schenn is the player Kopitar is.

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04-15-2011, 08:52 PM
  #246
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Anyone want to start making funeral arrangements for Moller?

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04-15-2011, 08:54 PM
  #247
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Yes! Can't wait to see Moller matched up with Eager/Nichols/Mayars

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04-15-2011, 09:05 PM
  #248
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Does Lombardi seriously not understand re-call waiver rules?

You have GOT to be kidding me.

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04-15-2011, 09:08 PM
  #249
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Damn kinda wanted to see Zeiler play...

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04-15-2011, 09:14 PM
  #250
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In the end, I think we all mostly feel relieved that Zeiler isn't going to be in the lineup. I just hope for Oscar's sake, he's stays the hell away from Doug Murray.

But from reading that tweet by Hammond saying that Zeiler wasn't going to be able to make it through re-entry waivers, tells me that they did TRY to recall him? So all that angst wasn't over for nothing then. I'm a huge DL fan, and I respect why he chose to send Schenn to the AHL. Hell, I even get why he wouldn't re-call Schenn now that Stoll is out one game. But to pick Zeiler over the other available bodies from MAN? WTF is that dude? How do you begin to justify this move? What reasoning could there be?

I love what DL has done here. I wrote an email to Tim Lieweke (which he replied to) begging him to fire Dave Taylor and hire DL the summer that stuff went down. I still think he's doing an awesome job. But unless we somehow find out what their reasoning was for picking Zeiler, I'm going to have to assume he didn't do his best to ice the most competitive team possible within their build from within philosophy.

Oh and for all those people who complain about the waiver rules when they don't work in your favor? Remember that on this day in Kings history, they for once worked in our favor.

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