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What would GM Messier do differently?

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Old
04-16-2011, 02:16 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Death By BB Gun View Post
Mind passing along some lotto numbers? Since you seem to be able to read minds/the future.
my point is that everyone seems to assume that Messier will come in and it will be instant magic. i just wanted to offer an pessimistic view.

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04-16-2011, 02:18 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
Beats the hell out of 54! Sign me up for that!

**** those assets in favor of one single cup! ...and don't even let em get dressed before they're kicked out the door!
That kind of thinking results in 54 years of Cup free living.

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04-16-2011, 02:20 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Messier, with his reckless competitiveness, would be Sather on crack. Even less patient, with even more bad contracts. I want no part of #11 as GM.
Totally agree...

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04-16-2011, 02:23 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Special View Post
I've never called for Mess to be the GM of the Rangers, but...

I can't believe the presumptive nature of some of the posts. This is completely baseless.

Messier was reckless in his competitiveness? I saw it more as methodical, obsessive even. Do you see Sather the same way? Competitive?

On the contrary, Sather has NO interest in icing a truly competitive team. He merely pieces together some players who happen to be available at a convenient moment.

I think Messier would want to win, and would take his responsibility and his legacy very seriously. Hard to say how it would really turn out, and it would be a huge gamble on his part. But so it was the first time he came to Broadway.

But the assumption that he would just be Sather Part II has no basis in fact.
And you know Sather has NO interest in icing a truly competitive team how?

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04-16-2011, 02:23 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
That kind of thinking results in 54 years of Cup free living.
How does that make sense? I'd say it results in...17 years of Cup free living.

While talking type of thinking, how about thinking that what we're seeing is the best the current team can do? Plenty of that to worry about!

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04-16-2011, 02:26 PM
  #31
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I'm not going to pretend that I know what Messier would do or he kind of GM he would be.

My biggest reason for not wanting him is I'm tired of looking back to move a team forward. Picking Sather was a looking back to move forward.

I'm tired of MSG's attempts to keep 1994 front of mind in the fans. I'm tired of the 1980s Oilers. Hiring Messier would be a predictable move made more out of PR than out of what is actual good from a hockey perspectiv.

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04-16-2011, 02:28 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
How does that make sense? I'd say it results in...17 years of Cup free living.
You'd be surprised how quickly 17 years can become 54.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
While talking type of thinking, how about thinking that what we're seeing is the best the current team can do? Plenty of that to worry about!
If it is, then why look back to move forward? Go out and find the best person for the job even if that person — the horror, the horror — has nothing to do with the 1994 Rangers.

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04-16-2011, 02:31 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
That kind of thinking results in 54 years of Cup free living.
and 7 years of DNQ for the PO's in a league where more than 50% of the teams qualify, where we are about to make it 13 seasons in a row without getting out of the 2nd round

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04-16-2011, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
You'd be surprised how quickly 17 years can become 54.



If it is, then why look back to move forward? Go out and find the best person for the job even if that person the horror, the horror has nothing to do with the 1994 Rangers.
Not that quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if it took 37 more years to become 54.

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Old
04-16-2011, 02:40 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I'm tired of MSG's attempts to keep 1994 front of mind in the fans. I'm tired of the 1980s Oilers. Hiring Messier would be a predictable move made more out of PR than out of what is actual good from a hockey perspectiv.
Dolan doesn't care about what's good from a hockey perspective, which is why the Rangers will never be more concerned with winning than with filling seats.

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Old
04-16-2011, 02:44 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
Not that quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if it took 37 more years to become 54.
Well after the team went to the finals in 79 I didn't think it would take 15 more years for them to get back to the finals...Sather now has as many seasons as GM as Smith did

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04-16-2011, 02:47 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
Dolan doesn't care about what's good from a hockey perspective, which is why the Rangers will never be more concerned with winning than with filling seats.
Messier would never sign on for that. We won't really know if he's a good GM or not until he actually takes control and has his shot. But you can bet the house Messier will want very much to Win, regardless of Dolans bottom line or other agendas outside of the Cup.

I have zero qualms about Messier doing EVERYTHING in his power to win the cup. How that translates into the role of GM will be interesting.

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04-16-2011, 02:51 PM
  #38
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I have no idea what kind of a GM Messier will make if it ever comes to that. No idea because the business side is completely different. Truthfully, I don't even really know what Messier does for the team right now? ...But, I will say this. If indeed it happens, I won't judge him beforehand. If it's one guy that certainly deserves to start off on clean slate it's him. He's earned it as a player and what he has accomplished here for this organization. Let's face it...W/out him, we would probably still hear "1940" chanted in opposing teams buildings.

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04-16-2011, 02:53 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
Messier would never sign on for that. We won't really know if he's a good GM or not until he actually takes control and has his shot. But you can bet the house Messier will want very much to Win, regardless of Dolans bottom line or other agendas outside of the Cup.

I have zero qualms about Messier doing EVERYTHING in his power to win the cup. How that translates into the role of GM will be interesting.
Problem is that if Messier ISN'T a good GM, there's no way he'll be fired. Like Sather, he'll have a job for life. Dolan would never fire him or acknowledge any failure on Mess' part because that might reduce the number of Mark Messier bobbleheads he can sell.

I'm not saying Mess would buy into Dolan's thinking, just that if Doland puts him in charge, it will be with absolutely no knowledge of whether or not he'll be any good at the job, and no possibility of him being held accountable for his actions.

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04-16-2011, 03:18 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I'm not going to pretend that I know what Messier would do or he kind of GM he would be.

My biggest reason for not wanting him is I'm tired of looking back to move a team forward. Picking Sather was a looking back to move forward.

I'm tired of MSG's attempts to keep 1994 front of mind in the fans. I'm tired of the 1980s Oilers. Hiring Messier would be a predictable move made more out of PR than out of what is actual good from a hockey perspectiv.
This is the argument against Messier that makes the most sense. I have certainly had enough of Sather. Been more than patient since the lockout, but I think his window to take a run has come and gone.

I understand where SBOB is coming from. Maybe it's time to just completely extricate ourselves from that era. We need a new GM.

How long before the chants become "1994"?

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Old
04-16-2011, 03:42 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
I honestly don't know how this team competes against the one time bottom feeders who now have multiple bona fide elite players. We just never suck that bad...

The Islanders are probably next, which is not going to be fun....

Detroits deep Euro scouting mojo is not easily replicated

Free Agency, or TANK..... otherwise its just getting lucky in the later rounds

Look at the roster now. These guys play hard they just dont have the elite skill upfront to get the job done. Yea Gabby is having an off year, but even when he was killin it wasnt enough.
Just because u finish in the bottom does not mean you will get better! Fla, Columbus, Edm, NYI. Many teams finish at the bottom and never become contenders, while Det finds a way every year finishing at the top. You dont need the 1st draft choice. What you need is good development(which we have done well in it seems), Strong team identity, Good strategy, Good coaching, Good Gm, Chemistry etc. There are more factors that contribute to a great team than finishing at the bottom of standing for many years. Not to mention doing that sucks for fans who want a contender every year and they should. There is the Minors for a reason, you have an NHL team you compete for the playoffs no matter what.

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04-16-2011, 03:57 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Yzerman learned how to build a team with the greatest franchise in the NHL bar none.

Messier has learned from Sather. Based on Messiers past, and clear preference of vets, id say we would be worse off.

i wanted Yzerman as our GM so bad... Granted Yzerman had: Stamkos, Lecavalier, St. Louis, Hedman, etc just giftwrapped to him.
Good point, but Yzerman has also made the best of it.

Remember that they missed the PO's until he came on board for example. They play a very ambitious style, clearly Detroit influenced. Natrually like you said, he had a lot of pieces for it.

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04-16-2011, 03:57 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by satrabyk View Post
Just because u finish in the bottom does not mean you will get better! Fla, Columbus, Edm, NYI. Many teams finish at the bottom and never become contenders, while Det finds a way every year finishing at the top. You dont need the 1st draft choice. What you need is good development(which we have done well in it seems), Strong team identity, Good strategy, Good coaching, Good Gm, Chemistry etc. There are more factors that contribute to a great team than finishing at the bottom of standing for many years. Not to mention doing that sucks for fans who want a contender every year and they should. There is the Minors for a reason, you have an NHL team you compete for the playoffs no matter what.
You're joking right? Take Detroit out of the equation. What do you have?

Bottom feeder > drafts ELITE talent out of the lottery multiple years in a row = CONTENDER

The Pens
The Caps
The Hawks
The Bolts

Shall we go on..... ?

Detroits Euro scouting is bizarre and difficult to duplicate.

Teams being handed top 5 picks in strong drafts a few years in a row..... thats the new ROAD TO SUCCESS

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Old
04-16-2011, 03:59 PM
  #44
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Ahh, Messier. The Captain. Helluva Ranger.

Move on. This isn't 1994 anymore.

I can't say Messier would be a good GM, and I can't say he'd be a bad one. What credentials does he have other than being a former player? That itself is hardly an indicator of success in the front office.

All I have to judge him by is that he was an amazing player and captain, and that he's learned under the tutelage of Glen Sather. The former means little, the latter scares the hell out of me.

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04-16-2011, 04:01 PM
  #45
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As regards to vets, we don't know it in NY -- but there is a helluva difference between veterans on a team and older players.

I think NHL teams in general are way too fast to kick out players because of age and to "bet" on kids. Kids are seen as lottery tickets, like GM's look at a vet and evaluates him to have like the value "50", then he looks at a kid and think he will get 45, but goes with the kid because he hopes that he has potential and possibly might give 70. But then the kid don't fit it, which hurts other kids around him and the room and whatnot.

Detroit for example has always kept their vet's, and only went with kids that proved themselves beyond any doubt.

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04-16-2011, 04:35 PM
  #46
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When Sather got the job, The cupboard was really bare. Neil Smith left him nothing but two hi pick busts(Lundmark and Brendl) The team still had Brian Leetch and Richter and a bunch of Journeyman @ the time.

Sather was never in the position of having an unlimited budget. He came in and thought he could buy a team instead of Telling Little Jimmy That the team has to get really bad and draft hi level(top 5 pick) type players.

That philosophy got us to be mediocre non Playoff teams. In 2002, Sather changed his philosophy and started drafting but still tried to buy a team until his picks ripened.
Sather was the recipient of some bad luck such as Dan Blackburn losing his career and Hugh Jessiman busting. Even in 2004, our first round picks are on other teams( even though it looks like Montoya is gonna be a decent goalie and Korpikorski is going to be a top 6 forward). We got lucky in 2002 by drafting a little known goalie named Henrik Lundquist. 2004 we drafted Dubi and Cally, 2005 we drafted Staal and Girardi. At this point Sather kept his picks for the most part but still dabled in the FA market. The FA market has been cruel to Sather. Gomez, Drury and Redden busted. We got lucky that Sather conned Gainey into taking Gomez. We are still saddled with Drury for one more year. Drury is no more than a 4th line player at this point. Redden is still on our summer cap. Gaborik made Sather look like a genius the first season but this season, Sather looks like himself. As the games got bigger, Gabbys game got smaller. Although, he worked hard the last few games, Gabby should have potted 4-5 goals these last two games. Sather not looking good.


But when Mess takes over, he will be in a position to be successful. The cupboard is pretty full of players who will be good NHL players. Superstars? I doubt any of the players we have will be bonafied superstars.

What Mess will have to do is pull a deal to move up into the top five in a good year.
That will be real tough but that is the only way we can get one of these young superstars. Can Mess pull it off? Thats gonna be real tough because now that Gainy and Sutter are gone, there are not too many stupid GMs out there.

Hopefully, Messier wont defer from the plan and just keep drafting and developing.

We need one or two of these picks to develop into superstars like a Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

Will Messier become a great GM? Who is too say. It remains to be seen.

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Old
04-16-2011, 04:50 PM
  #47
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Messier, with his reckless competitiveness, would be Sather on crack. Even less patient, with even more bad contracts. I want no part of #11 as GM.
lets not forget that Imp on Sather's shoulder. aka Dolan. surely he has had a hand in some of the matters. I would love to get the Sather post mortem when he quits or retires. i.e. throw Jimmy under the bus. "yup Gomez and Drury and Redden's contracts were all Jimmy's doing!"

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04-16-2011, 05:03 PM
  #48
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What would the general opinion be if Messier took over and the Rangers conveniently TANKED into the lottery three years in a row? I know unlikely with the emerging Blueline and Henke but....

There would be conspiracy theories abound.... but what if he did take that "don't ask don't tell" strategy?

Would you be OK with it?

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04-16-2011, 05:06 PM
  #49
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Is Messier going to trade talented players just because he has some sort of personal difference with them, like with Zubov?

Let's hope he's matured since his days as a player. I remember reading an article in the Daily News a few years ago that Messier probably wouldn't have wanted a guy like Sykora on his team because that wasn't his type of player. Messier will have to open his mind as a GM and realize that a player can be useful to an NHL team even if he doesn't fit into Messier's "mold."

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04-16-2011, 05:37 PM
  #50
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All of which have nothing to do with being able to evaluate talent or building a team.

Enough with 94. Enough with Edmonton. Enough with Messier.
I agree 100%

Next GM should be new blood from the Canadian Juniors ranks.

Someone younger, values youth, and has great talent evaluation, great hockey mind.

If he isn't great at business, get a great advisory staff.

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