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What would GM Messier do differently?

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Old
04-16-2011, 08:48 PM
  #51
CHGoalie27
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Guys I know what you're saying about the moving on from 1994.

Yet again I say, if it wasn't Mark Messier, who seems to be working an angle, I wouldn't bite.

I totally want to move on from the sense that 1994 is still fresh enough to get us by.

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04-16-2011, 08:55 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Let's hope he's matured since his days as a player. I remember reading an article in the Daily News a few years ago that Messier probably wouldn't have wanted a guy like Sykora on his team because that wasn't his type of player. Messier will have to open his mind as a GM and realize that a player can be useful to an NHL team even if he doesn't fit into Messier's "mold."
You mean the same Sykora the Pens benched in the cup finals? The same guy who was traded by pretty much every team he's played for...

I think Messier knows a thing or two about hockey. Kind of amazing people show him little respect. He played on how many Cup winning teams? How many times did play on a true contender that fell just short? He knows teams need different kinds of players to win.

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04-16-2011, 10:48 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
You mean the same Sykora the Pens benched in the cup finals? The same guy who was traded by pretty much every team he's played for...

I think Messier knows a thing or two about hockey. Kind of amazing people show him little respect. He played on how many Cup winning teams? How many times did play on a true contender that fell just short? He knows teams need different kinds of players to win.
No, the Sykora that was a key component of multiple great New Jersey Devils teams. Convenient that you disregard most of his career, particularly the part OTC was referencing. BTW, he played for 6 teams and was traded twice. Hyperbole much?

Messier gets plenty of respect. We all love him and what he has done for the franchise. That doesn't mean we have to sugarcoat our opinions of his prospects at success as a GM, or that we ought to not ponder legitimate questions regarding his sometimes stubborn view of "softer" players.

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04-16-2011, 11:08 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
And you know Sather has NO interest in icing a truly competitive team how?
you do watch this team right?

You remember the Redden deal, the Gomez contract?

The holes that we have that will prevent us from truly competing

Seems pretty obvious to me.

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04-16-2011, 11:09 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
You mean the same Sykora the Pens benched in the cup finals? The same guy who was traded by pretty much every team he's played for...

I think Messier knows a thing or two about hockey. Kind of amazing people show him little respect. He played on how many Cup winning teams? How many times did play on a true contender that fell just short? He knows teams need different kinds of players to win.
I respect Messier as a player. But he was particular about the some of his teammates, even if they were important contributors to the team, and never shied away from informing the GM, whether it be Smith or Sather, that these players had to go.

The Zubov one is still frustrating, even though Smith played a major part in running him out of NY as well. Zubov had a bad wrist injury and felt like he needed to get surgery midseason instead of waiting until the season ended, much to the chagrin of Smith, Campbell, Messier and others. After Zubov returned from surgery, the Nordiques illegally contacted Zubov about a potential trade, and he started getting nervous that he would be traded. Messier got pissed at Zubov for being upset.

Zubov was a talented player, but Smith, Messier, and Campbell thought he was soft and traded him away. That's why I say things like Messier needs to be a little more open-minded when it comes to players who are not exactly like him.

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04-16-2011, 11:10 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
No, the Sykora that was a key component of multiple great New Jersey Devils teams. Convenient that you disregard most of his career, particularly the part OTC was referencing. BTW, he played for 6 teams and was traded twice. Hyperbole much?

Messier gets plenty of respect. We all love him and what he has done for the franchise. That doesn't mean we have to sugarcoat our opinions of his prospects at success as a GM, or that we ought to not ponder legitimate questions regarding his sometimes stubborn view of "softer" players.
little ot but the devils players hated sykora. many stories of dano and stevens *****ing him out in hotel lobbies for being a ***** during the playoffs.

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04-17-2011, 08:20 AM
  #57
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I understand the logic of extricating from the "Edmonton syndrome". I get that.

I also understand the concern about a GM that has had a history as a player of influencing personnel decisions because of a perceived bias towards certain players.

I understand the concern about a GM who could be very head-strong and stubborn.

What I don't understand is the assumption that Messier would behave just like Slats as far as running the organization. I think the contrary, that he would want to put his own personal stamp on his tenure and would do things much differently. I feel that Mess is one of a group of guys who "made" Sather into this supposed hockey genius. I don't think Slats "made" Mess any more than he made Gretzky.

The other thing I don't understand (and this could just be because I'm not aware of some things) is the assumption that Messier is the heir apparent to GM The NY Rangers. Is there something of substance here that I'm missing?

Of course how good or bad Messier ultimately might be as a GM remains to be seen. But I WILL say this: If he gets the job, I will be excited and endorse him. I might even give him the benefit of the doubt for a few years. I've been patient with Sather but that's over.

JMHO

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04-17-2011, 08:59 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
you do watch this team right?

You remember the Redden deal, the Gomez contract?

The holes that we have that will prevent us from truly competing

Seems pretty obvious to me.
Incompetency/Bad decisions do not constitute not having interest in building a winner...there is a difference.

The Blackhawks under Old Man Wirtz, the Bruins pre-lockout while Harry Sinden was GM and the Islanders during the Wang era are examples of teams having no interest in building a truly competitive team capable of winning the Cup...Sather has the interest he's just not capable.

Big difference

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04-17-2011, 09:28 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
No, the Sykora that was a key component of multiple great New Jersey Devils teams. Convenient that you disregard most of his career, particularly the part OTC was referencing. BTW, he played for 6 teams and was traded twice. Hyperbole much?

Messier gets plenty of respect. We all love him and what he has done for the franchise. That doesn't mean we have to sugarcoat our opinions of his prospects at success as a GM, or that we ought to not ponder legitimate questions regarding his sometimes stubborn view of "softer" players.
By the time Sykora came to the Rangers he was already finished, so, I have to agree with Mess on this one.

Mess was the GM of the 2010 Worlds team and he went with a younger roster...I think he realizes this is now a much younger mans sport and I think he has the support around him, Clark, Schoney, etc to make him not deviate too much from the system.

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04-17-2011, 09:38 AM
  #60
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After leaving us, he had seasons of 53 and 64 points. He was hardly finished.

Anyway, I don't even know why I'm in this discussion. I said years ago that Mess was the next GM. Disapproved then, disapprove now.

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04-17-2011, 09:42 AM
  #61
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Pretty funny that anyone thinks they have a clue what kind of gm he would be, or anyone else would be. What are these oplnions based on?

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04-17-2011, 09:47 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
Incompetency/Bad decisions do not constitute not having interest in building a winner...there is a difference.

The Blackhawks under Old Man Wirtz, the Bruins pre-lockout while Harry Sinden was GM and the Islanders during the Wang era are examples of teams having no interest in building a truly competitive team capable of winning the Cup...Sather has the interest he's just not capable.

Big difference
I disagree. And that doesn't mean I DON"T think Slats is incompetent. But my perception is that he does NOT care about icing a TRULY competitive team, and by that I mean "Cup contender". He does "just enough" to keep the Rangers on the fringe of the playoffs. The record speaks for itself.

He signs the convenient FA that could have some impact, got lucky with Jagr and Hank, but misses much more than he hits. What is sorely lacking is a plan. How long is this re-build supposed to go on?

Back to the OP: What do I think Mess what do differently?

He would make it a priority to bring in a top center in his prime. That might take a few years.

He would restore some tradition.

He would require players on the roster "buy-in" to the team concept.

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04-17-2011, 10:05 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Special View Post
I disagree. And that doesn't mean I DON"T think Slats is incompetent. But my perception is that he does NOT care about icing a TRULY competitive team, and by that I mean "Cup contender". He does "just enough" to keep the Rangers on the fringe of the playoffs. The record speaks for itself.

He signs the convenient FA that could have some impact, got lucky with Jagr and Hank, but misses much more than he hits. What is sorely lacking is a plan. How long is this re-build supposed to go on?

Back to the OP: What do I think Mess what do differently?

He would make it a priority to bring in a top center in his prime. That might take a few years.

He would restore some tradition.

He would require players on the roster "buy-in" to the team concept.
We will agree to disagree...

I don't know what kind of a GM #11 will be, nobody does, so it's all speculation, but I'm wondering what his record as Team Canada GM is for the WC's

You know what the say about opinions and plenty of people have said that about me

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04-17-2011, 10:22 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
Incompetency/Bad decisions do not constitute not having interest in building a winner...there is a difference.

The Blackhawks under Old Man Wirtz, the Bruins pre-lockout while Harry Sinden was GM and the Islanders during the Wang era are examples of teams having no interest in building a truly competitive team capable of winning the Cup...Sather has the interest he's just not capable.

Big difference

I agree with this. I think Sather wanted to build a winning team, he just wanted to build it HIS way, using methods of the past -- and then was too egotistical to abandon the approach even in the face of overwhelming evidence of failure. Then came the salary cap, which essentially forced him to make some adjustments -- yet even under the cap, you could still see plenty of signs of the old Sather.

I dislike and have disliked Sather as GM, but there is a world of difference between what we've experienced under Sather and what Blackhawks fan experienced for so many years with ****ing Bill Wirtz as owner. At least Dolan has been willing to spend money; you have to give him credit for that. Sather has on the whole been poor as GM, but Bill Wirtz was on a completely different level of frustration.

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04-17-2011, 11:48 AM
  #65
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The Zubov trade was up there with the worst in Rangers history and the PP still suffers today because of it.

Sykora was a pretty decent Ranger. They decided to let him go and bring in Shanahan which was fine; no major impact

As for the GM, it's obvious Mess will take over but I'd rather give it to Gordie, promote Gorton to head scout, and make Graves the Assistant Scout.

I just feel in terms of logic, performance rate, and someone who is fair and can assess things with a level head; Gordie Clark is the right man for the job.

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04-17-2011, 12:10 PM
  #66
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I'm not liking the Messier idea either . It is time to move on from the whole EDM show . I actually like Kirk Muller for the new coach and the GM job is up in the air...maybe Don Maloney who has done well in the desert . Another name to keep in mind is Gardiner MacDougall who has done well in the Canadian University ranks . He might be a good assistant for now and add a new perspective behind our bench .

http://www.vreds.ca/coaches.aspx?rc=71

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04-20-2011, 05:29 AM
  #67
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Messier is putting in the work. Graves is also putting in the work. They attended the Whale's playoff game last night. They have scouted other games involving Rangers prospects.

Quote:
The crowd included what could have been one of the best lines in NHL history: Gordie Howe, Mark Messier and Adam Graves. In a total of 3,852 games in 73 NHL seasons, the trio combined for 1,682 goals, 2,858 assists for 4,540 points with 4,819 penalty minutes tossed in for good measure.
http://www.ctwhale.com/default.asp?c...=59&objId=1345

Edmonton syndrome? Messier hasn't been associated with the Oilers since 1991. He spent 10 years playing for the Rangers. Has spent the last 2 years in his current role.

Is Graves an Edmonton guy too?

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04-20-2011, 09:00 AM
  #68
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When Sather got the job, The cupboard was really bare. Neil Smith left him nothing but two hi pick busts(Lundmark and Brendl) The team still had Brian Leetch and Richter and a bunch of Journeyman @ the time.

Sather was never in the position of having an unlimited budget. He came in and thought he could buy a team instead of Telling Little Jimmy That the team has to get really bad and draft hi level(top 5 pick) type players.

That philosophy got us to be mediocre non Playoff teams. In 2002, Sather changed his philosophy and started drafting but still tried to buy a team until his picks ripened.
Sather was the recipient of some bad luck such as Dan Blackburn losing his career and Hugh Jessiman busting. Even in 2004, our first round picks are on other teams( even though it looks like Montoya is gonna be a decent goalie and Korpikorski is going to be a top 6 forward). We got lucky in 2002 by drafting a little known goalie named Henrik Lundquist. 2004 we drafted Dubi and Cally, 2005 we drafted Staal and Girardi. At this point Sather kept his picks for the most part but still dabled in the FA market. The FA market has been cruel to Sather. Gomez, Drury and Redden busted. We got lucky that Sather conned Gainey into taking Gomez. We are still saddled with Drury for one more year. Drury is no more than a 4th line player at this point. Redden is still on our summer cap. Gaborik made Sather look like a genius the first season but this season, Sather looks like himself. As the games got bigger, Gabbys game got smaller. Although, he worked hard the last few games, Gabby should have potted 4-5 goals these last two games. Sather not looking good.


But when Mess takes over, he will be in a position to be successful. The cupboard is pretty full of players who will be good NHL players. Superstars? I doubt any of the players we have will be bonafied superstars.

What Mess will have to do is pull a deal to move up into the top five in a good year.
That will be real tough but that is the only way we can get one of these young superstars. Can Mess pull it off? Thats gonna be real tough because now that Gainy and Sutter are gone, there are not too many stupid GMs out there.

Hopefully, Messier wont defer from the plan and just keep drafting and developing.

We need one or two of these picks to develop into superstars like a Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

Will Messier become a great GM? Who is too say. It remains to be seen.
good post.

I wanted Sathers head from about 2000-lockout.

Since then I've wished him away but I will give him props for fixing a few of his messes. He's made some decent trades too. But, he's still the same Sather. The cap is the only thing that prevents him from going total ape *****.

I'm open to Mess as GM.

We know Dolan. He's not going to hire a no-name guy. And Sather's going to have a huge say in it as well.

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04-20-2011, 09:34 AM
  #69
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The only way i want GM Mess is if its in his contract he has to come down to the locker room after a loss and elbow the goat-of-the-night in the teeth.

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04-20-2011, 03:49 PM
  #70
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Messier was XM with Gord Stellick

@4:40 Stellick asked Messier about his current role with the Rangers. Messier is going to be patient. Has no timetable. Learning experience.

http://www.xmhomeice.com/onair_audio...%20to%20GM.mp3

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