HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

John Tortorella Discussion (Update: Torts extended 3 years)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-16-2011, 01:49 PM
  #726
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
 
haohmaru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fleming Island, Fl
Country: United States
Posts: 6,235
vCash: 500
Is it me or did you just say that Boyle is a #1 center? He's had 8 points in his last 22 games and 35 this season. Granted, he's been markedly improved this year, but come on.

haohmaru is offline  
Old
04-16-2011, 01:56 PM
  #727
CHGoalie27
GWAAARRRRRRR
 
CHGoalie27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoFLA
Country: United States
Posts: 7,848
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Is it me or did you just say that Boyle is a #1 center? He's had 8 points in his last 22 games and 35 this season. Granted, he's been markedly improved this year, but come on.

Forget what you can read, have you been watching him?
Sorry, but rely on stats and you won't last long when talking analysis.

Stick him with Gaborik and he's a number one center, yes. I've seen it.
One of the biggest goals of the year came with the two of them fighting behind the net. Yeah, Boyle gets Gaborik to be a pretty decent digger! May have something to do with Gab getting confidence in his linemates.

I stress the Avery Boyle Gaborik thing so much because of what I saw while they didn't even register a point in the one period they had together. (they looked like they unluckily should've had 4 goals)

Stats will never tell you those kind of things. Unless of course it's given time to work.
I'll tell you, I've always liked how it looks when any of the three have been paired together-Boyle/Avery, Boyle/Gaborik, Avery/Gaborik.
Tell me you haven't noticed that of the three and I'll tell you to sign up for Gamecenter live and watch game replays.


Last edited by CHGoalie27: 04-16-2011 at 02:09 PM.
CHGoalie27 is offline  
Old
04-16-2011, 03:32 PM
  #728
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
 
haohmaru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fleming Island, Fl
Country: United States
Posts: 6,235
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
Forget what you can read, have you been watching him?
Sorry, but rely on stats and you won't last long when talking analysis.

Stick him with Gaborik and he's a number one center, yes. I've seen it.
One of the biggest goals of the year came with the two of them fighting behind the net. Yeah, Boyle gets Gaborik to be a pretty decent digger! May have something to do with Gab getting confidence in his linemates.

I stress the Avery Boyle Gaborik thing so much because of what I saw while they didn't even register a point in the one period they had together. (they looked like they unluckily should've had 4 goals)

Stats will never tell you those kind of things. Unless of course it's given time to work.
I'll tell you, I've always liked how it looks when any of the three have been paired together-Boyle/Avery, Boyle/Gaborik, Avery/Gaborik.
Tell me you haven't noticed that of the three and I'll tell you to sign up for Gamecenter live and watch game replays.
I've watched pretty much every Rangers game and probably watch 200+ NHL games per year.

Brian Boyle is not a #1 center. He averages 15:45 ATOI (this year) and has 14 assists - which is the primary statistic for the true #1 center regardless of his wing mates. Averaging an assist every 6 games, or so, is not getting it done in that role. I'm not arguing that he's not valuable to the team or hasn't improved or that I don't think he's worth signing again. He is all that. But you simply cannot put him in the category of elite centers in this league based on his ability to pass (assist) or FO %.

#1 Centers in the NHL:

Toews
Richards
H. Sedin
E. Staal
Kesler
Getzlaf
Kopitar
Thornton
Crosby
Malkin
Ribeiro
Koivu

Etc...

Are you seriously putting Boyle in that category? I like the guy, too, but you're overdoing it a bit. No, it's not all about stats, but these guys are in a completely different class than Boyle is.

haohmaru is offline  
Old
04-16-2011, 07:32 PM
  #729
CHGoalie27
GWAAARRRRRRR
 
CHGoalie27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoFLA
Country: United States
Posts: 7,848
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
I've watched pretty much every Rangers game and probably watch 200+ NHL games per year.

Brian Boyle is not a #1 center. He averages 15:45 ATOI (this year) and has 14 assists - which is the primary statistic for the true #1 center regardless of his wing mates. Averaging an assist every 6 games, or so, is not getting it done in that role. I'm not arguing that he's not valuable to the team or hasn't improved or that I don't think he's worth signing again. He is all that. But you simply cannot put him in the category of elite centers in this league based on his ability to pass (assist) or FO %.

#1 Centers in the NHL:

Toews
Richards
H. Sedin
E. Staal
Kesler
Getzlaf
Kopitar
Thornton
Crosby
Malkin
Ribeiro
Koivu

Etc...

Are you seriously putting Boyle in that category? I like the guy, too, but you're overdoing it a bit. No, it's not all about stats, but these guys are in a completely different class than Boyle is.
I'm not saying you haven't watched.
I'm not saying he's a superstar. I'm not overdoing anything.
I'm saying he's most definitely worthy of playing on the main line of this team at least. His size and ability to move is a rare asset to be used to the max.
I mean, are you seriously saying that he wouldn't have a better chance of putting up points next to Gaborik as he would Prust or Fedotenko?
I will not consider his given time of ice when it's one of the things I disagree with most.

Do you not think Boyle and Gaborik looked great together when we saw it?
Again I stress, stats can only be considered for so much. Like when you're talking about what is, not what could be. What is sucks, and that's all we really know for certain.

CHGoalie27 is offline  
Old
04-16-2011, 07:34 PM
  #730
dogfox
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 22
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
And, you know what, thinking about Wolski further -

The guy has been coached by three of the best in the NHL: Quenville, Tippet, and Tortorella and basically the same pattern has emerged in all three places. He got a decent chance and decent ice time and subsequently gets less & less and even gets scratched. Do you see, by chance, a pattern here?

The problem lies with the player. Not the coach.
I know how you came to that conclusion but I disagree partially

the reason wolski got traded from colorado is because the owner of the avs wanted to stay below a certain cap number and wolski was having a career year and they knew he would get a raise and were thinking okay we cant sign him so lets trade him and get something in return. if you do some investigation you will see that at the begining of this season the avs were actually below the minimum cap number and had sign some players to be cap compliant. why the heck would u trade a player thats on pace for 65 points and leds your team in plus minus.

every player goes through a bad year. this is wolski bad year. if u take his avarage season numbers minus this season he on average scores 55 points a season. this season only 34. an example is alex tanguay average scores around 70 points. last season only 37 this season 69.

does wolski not put in a hard effert every game? sure he desent thats were i agree with u. and I dont mind it when torts benches or scrathes him for that.

but I dont know if it was u or someone else said that wolski has been given an opportunity to succeed. thats were i completely disagree with u. he hasent played with gaborik and only has had an average ice time of 10 30 a game which is almost half of what he is use to getting. he usually gets around 1830.

what im saying is if a player doesent give effert or is screwing up in some way its fine to bench him or scratch him but when you bring that player back into the game give him a chance to redeem himself. playing him on the fourth line 9 min a game is not giving the player a chance.

if watch the games closely maybe the last 10 or so and wolski effert has been there and he hasent played bad. I just think torts isent given him a chance. give the guy a chance before u write him off. u guys should be ripping on gaborik and prospal and dubinski and the guys who actualluy get a good amount of ice time.

and no one is saying fire torts i dont know where u got that i just think he deosent give certain players a chance to make up for there mistake and learn how to play the way he wants them to. you have to let the player LEARN.

dogfox is offline  
Old
04-16-2011, 08:35 PM
  #731
Florida Ranger
Bring back Torts!
 
Florida Ranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Tampa, FLA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,026
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Hartley just signed a two year deal a month ago and missed the playoffs in the NHL 3 out of his last 4 seasons and Clouston hasn't accomplished anything in 3 years as an NHL coach.
But c'mon, man! They don't juggle around lines, so they're definitely better than Tortorella!!!!!!!!

Florida Ranger is offline  
Old
04-16-2011, 08:49 PM
  #732
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,826
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
I'm not saying you haven't watched.
I'm not saying he's a superstar. I'm not overdoing anything.
I'm saying he's most definitely worthy of playing on the main line of this team at least. His size and ability to move is a rare asset to be used to the max.
I mean, are you seriously saying that he wouldn't have a better chance of putting up points next to Gaborik as he would Prust or Fedotenko?
I will not consider his given time of ice when it's one of the things I disagree with most.

Do you not think Boyle and Gaborik looked great together when we saw it?
Again I stress, stats can only be considered for so much. Like when you're talking about what is, not what could be. What is sucks, and that's all we really know for certain.
Brian Boyle has zero playmaking skills, which makes it pretty much impossible to be an upper echelon center to begin with. I think hes been pretty damn lucky this year from a goal scoring perspective as well. Good player, but totally expendable as far as Im concerned.

As for pairing him with Gaborik, it doesnt seem to make much sense to me. Stepan, Anisimov, and, yes, even the immortal Erik Christensen, whose probably my least favorite player on the roster, are better fits to play with Gaborik. Why? Because theyre better playmakers than Brian Boyle, and Gaborik needs a guy to get him the puck in prime scoring positions in order to be successful at this point.

Bleed Ranger Blue is online now  
Old
04-16-2011, 10:33 PM
  #733
Vitto79
Registered User
 
Vitto79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sarnia
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,047
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Brian Boyle has zero playmaking skills, which makes it pretty much impossible to be an upper echelon center to begin with. I think hes been pretty damn lucky this year from a goal scoring perspective as well. Good player, but totally expendable as far as Im concerned.

As for pairing him with Gaborik, it doesnt seem to make much sense to me. Stepan, Anisimov, and, yes, even the immortal Erik Christensen, whose probably my least favorite player on the roster, are better fits to play with Gaborik. Why? Because theyre better playmakers than Brian Boyle, and Gaborik needs a guy to get him the puck in prime scoring positions in order to be successful at this point.
Anisimov is of more value than Boyle but I always see people saying AA is worth less. I would AA gets a more cash and they go 2 yrs 3 mil total on Boyle. I also have no clue if he will provide this much offense again but he's a big boy that can help out on the boards and PK and is worth a few more yrs

Vitto79 is offline  
Old
04-17-2011, 12:16 AM
  #734
CHGoalie27
GWAAARRRRRRR
 
CHGoalie27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoFLA
Country: United States
Posts: 7,848
vCash: 500
Respectfully disagree with the last two posts.

CHGoalie27 is offline  
Old
04-17-2011, 12:39 AM
  #735
SlingshotVv
nerdy wrist-locks
 
SlingshotVv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,531
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Is it me or did you just say that Boyle is a #1 center? He's had 8 points in his last 22 games and 35 this season. Granted, he's been markedly improved this year, but come on.
good point. he should easily be putting up all-world numbers with Prust and the revolving door of Wolski/MZA/Fedotenko/Christensen/Drury.

stats aren't were it's at in the Boyle discussion. He's a guy that is much more valuable in the playoffs when given linemates that actually belong in the NHL in a scoring line role. He may well be a 2way guy that shoots, goes to the net, is strong on the puck, and is massive bodied.

Gabby is too much of a cluster**** winger to put with anyone as an example. I'd love to see Boyle with some of the more legit 2nd line wingers in our own division like Giroux, Elias, Okposo, Neal/Kunitz.

SlingshotVv is offline  
Old
04-17-2011, 12:56 AM
  #736
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
 
n8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: san francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 7,423
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
I've watched pretty much every Rangers game and probably watch 200+ NHL games per year.

Brian Boyle is not a #1 center. He averages 15:45 ATOI (this year) and has 14 assists - which is the primary statistic for the true #1 center regardless of his wing mates. Averaging an assist every 6 games, or so, is not getting it done in that role. I'm not arguing that he's not valuable to the team or hasn't improved or that I don't think he's worth signing again. He is all that. But you simply cannot put him in the category of elite centers in this league based on his ability to pass (assist) or FO %.

Are you seriously putting Boyle in that category? I like the guy, too, but you're overdoing it a bit. No, it's not all about stats, but these guys are in a completely different class than Boyle is.
Boyle is not a #1 center but I don't see any flaw in his logic to play Gaborik with Boyle.

I disagree with you about resigning him. He totally deserves to get resigned. under $2M though. He hasn't shown quite enough to get what Dubi and Callahan got on their first RFA contracts. With Richards signed, he'd one of the best 4th line centers in the league. Probably the 4th line center with the most goals in the league.

n8 is offline  
Old
04-17-2011, 01:36 AM
  #737
Rangers44*
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 993
vCash: 500
I think that Boyle is more of a winger and Dubinsky is more of a center.

Rangers44* is offline  
Old
04-17-2011, 08:17 AM
  #738
CHGoalie27
GWAAARRRRRRR
 
CHGoalie27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoFLA
Country: United States
Posts: 7,848
vCash: 500
Funny Bleed ranger Blue says Boyle has zero playmaking skills because it points even more towards why he's a PERFECT match with Gaborik. (Though I don't think he has absolutely zero playmaking skills but...)

Torts and most people and totally read Gaborik, especially wrong if they put a playmaker on his line.
HE is supposed to be the play maker and he needs two able bodies that fit his style of get him the puck, clear the way.
Just two guys to simply do the dirty work to provide him protection and space to do his thing while able to back him up if he needs a poke back out of traffic...the funny thing is, when he gets that kind of help next to him, he joins in as much as he can.

What I'm trying to say is Gaborik is a one man show that needs a 2 man stage crew. Any other way and you simply won't get results. That's him, that's it, there's no getting around it.
Avery and Boyle, from those who enjoy having them as Rangers (especially Avery) wouldn't mind seeing it because they probably noticed.

Avery and Boyle, by those who hate them, are useless bags anyway so they're bodies better used to simply be monkey boys Gaborik.

So now you're left with:
a)Keep your stubborn coach frame of mind, piss and moan, accept that things won't work, we'll lose, then pack yer **** and get out.
b)Use him as he's to be used and you will get your superstar elite numbers outta him. Ask Jacques Lemaire.


Last edited by CHGoalie27: 04-17-2011 at 08:30 AM.
CHGoalie27 is offline  
Old
04-17-2011, 09:07 AM
  #739
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
 
haohmaru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fleming Island, Fl
Country: United States
Posts: 6,235
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by n8 View Post
Boyle is not a #1 center but I don't see any flaw in his logic to play Gaborik with Boyle.

I disagree with you about resigning him. He totally deserves to get resigned. under $2M though. He hasn't shown quite enough to get what Dubi and Callahan got on their first RFA contracts. With Richards signed, he'd one of the best 4th line centers in the league. Probably the 4th line center with the most goals in the league.
Where did I say not to re-sign him? I specifically said we should in several posts through the course of the season. I specifically said in the post that you quoted that I'm not saying that we shouldn't sign him again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlingshotVv View Post
good point. he should easily be putting up all-world numbers with Prust and the revolving door of Wolski/MZA/Fedotenko/Christensen/Drury.

stats aren't were it's at in the Boyle discussion. He's a guy that is much more valuable in the playoffs when given linemates that actually belong in the NHL in a scoring line role. He may well be a 2way guy that shoots, goes to the net, is strong on the puck, and is massive bodied.

Gabby is too much of a cluster**** winger to put with anyone as an example. I'd love to see Boyle with some of the more legit 2nd line wingers in our own division like Giroux, Elias, Okposo, Neal/Kunitz.
I'm not arguing about line pairings at all, people, all I've said is that he's not a number one center . Is this something that's really even an argument?

I'm not against him being given a shot with Gaborik and Frolov or Wolski or whoever. EC certainly isn't an answer and AA meshes better with Cally and Dubi. Let's do it. Next year.

haohmaru is offline  
Old
04-17-2011, 09:53 AM
  #740
Dantes19
Registered User
 
Dantes19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 1,355
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
I'm not arguing about line pairings at all, people, all I've said is that he's not a number one center . Is this something that's really even an argument?

I'm not against him being given a shot with Gaborik and Frolov or Wolski or whoever. EC certainly isn't an answer and AA meshes better with Cally and Dubi. Let's do it. Next year.

I likewise don't understand how there could be any question? It's one thing to say a guy like Boyle would be a good linemate for Gaborik. It's something completely different to say that Brian Boyle is a #1C. There's a statistical element that comes with that tag, that guys like Boyle and Christensen don't have. You can put anybody on the '1st line', but that doesn't mean they're a true #1C.

Somebody like Christensen can play 1st line minutes all season, but that's not going to chance the fact that he's a 3rd/4th liner playing playing over his head.

Dantes19 is offline  
Old
04-17-2011, 09:57 AM
  #741
Vito Andolini
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 923
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
b)Use him as he's to be used and you will get your superstar elite numbers outta him. Ask Jacques Lemaire.
Do you actually even know who he played with on Minnesota?

It was Demitra. Basically, the exact opposite kind of player that you've described.

Vito Andolini is offline  
Old
04-17-2011, 11:07 AM
  #742
CHGoalie27
GWAAARRRRRRR
 
CHGoalie27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoFLA
Country: United States
Posts: 7,848
vCash: 500
What's with all the petty focus on "number 1 center" ???

It's pretty funny like when politicians concentrate on "He's a republican" and "Yeah, well he's a democrat."

Get over it. Boyle's capable of playing center on the first line. Nothing more about it please?

CHGoalie27 is offline  
Old
04-17-2011, 12:16 PM
  #743
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,771
vCash: 500
i wouldnt be surprised at all if the 2nd half of the season if Christensen outperformed Boyle offensively.

Inferno is offline  
Old
04-17-2011, 01:07 PM
  #744
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
 
haohmaru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fleming Island, Fl
Country: United States
Posts: 6,235
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
What's with all the petty focus on "number 1 center" ???

It's pretty funny like when politicians concentrate on "He's a republican" and "Yeah, well he's a democrat."

Get over it. Boyle's capable of playing center on the first line. Nothing more about it please?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post

We have a number 1 center in case nobody noticed. He's only 6'7, and getting better all the time.
Ummmm...okay. You started the whole thing, chief.

haohmaru is offline  
Old
04-17-2011, 01:29 PM
  #745
Bob Richards
Global Moderator
Mr. Mojo Risin'
 
Bob Richards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 49,568
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
We have a number 1 center in case nobody noticed. He's only 6'7, and getting better all the time.
I wish someone would tell him that. He seems unaware of his massive frame.

Bob Richards is online now  
Old
04-17-2011, 01:48 PM
  #746
dedalus
Registered User
 
dedalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,215
vCash: 500
Egads! How did a Torts thread turn into a Brian Boyle thread????

dedalus is offline  
Old
04-17-2011, 02:24 PM
  #747
Rangers44*
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 993
vCash: 500
And the line combo shuffle keeps on coming with Fedotenko-Dubinsky-Gaborik put together 1st time in their life in a must win game. Simply genius.

Rangers44* is offline  
Old
04-17-2011, 02:27 PM
  #748
Rangers44*
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 993
vCash: 500
Eminger and Zuccarello still scratched, while garbage still plays.

Rangers44* is offline  
Old
04-17-2011, 02:30 PM
  #749
dedalus
Registered User
 
dedalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,215
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangers44 View Post
And the line combo shuffle keeps on coming with Fedotenko-Dubinsky-Gaborik put together 1st time in their life in a must win game. Simply genius.
I don't blame him for that. He's desperate to get Gaborik and Dubinsky going, and Fedotenko has been freakishly good in the playoffs on two past occasions. I think he's hoping to catch lightning in a bottle there ... no pun intended.

dedalus is offline  
Old
04-17-2011, 02:42 PM
  #750
Rangers44*
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 993
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
I don't blame him for that. He's desperate to get Gaborik and Dubinsky going, and Fedotenko has been freakishly good in the playoffs on two past occasions. I think he's hoping to catch lightning in a bottle there ... no pun intended.
A good coach would stick with combos that actually worked and had chemistry.

Rangers44* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:59 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.