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Old
04-17-2011, 10:27 PM
  #26
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Watching the game.
awesome...love to hear your thoughts

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Old
04-17-2011, 10:38 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Watching the game.
Is there a stream, or are you paying for it on the whl site?

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Old
04-17-2011, 10:40 PM
  #28
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Is there a stream, or are you paying for it on the whl site?
Paid...wouldn't leave ya guys hangin.

I'll give a little summary afterward...unfortunately missed the goal he scored in the opening minute.

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Old
04-17-2011, 11:12 PM
  #29
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He still needs some work on his hands, but his foot speed has improved tremendously now that he is able to use both legs.

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04-17-2011, 11:28 PM
  #30
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I see his highest potential of a ceiling as a Shea Weber type...
He's about as far away from Weber as a defensive defenseman can be. Cowen's hands are weak at best and his passing skills need work. His shot (wrist and slap) are fantastic but if he wants to be anything more than a 20-30P shutdown defenseman he's going to have to break out the stickhandling ball. It's his fourth WHL season, he should be putting up offensive numbers. The only reason he should play PP on an NHL team trying to make a run for the playoffs is for his shot, or to stand in front of the net and screen the goalie. If you look at the junior stats of shutdown defenders in the league and their production at the NHL level, it will make Sens fans a lot less hopeful of his offensive upside.

Chris Phillips
1996-97 Prince Albert Raiders WHL 32 3 23 26
1996-97 Lethbridge Hurricanes WHL 26 4 18 22
2006-07 Ottawa Senators NHL 82 8 18 26

Anton Volchenkov
2004-05 Binghamton Senators AHL 69 10 35 45
2006-07 Ottawa Senators NHL 78 1 18 19

Adam Foote
1990-91 Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds OHL 59 18 51 69
2002-03 Colorado Avalanche NHL 78 11 20 31

Tim Gleason
2001-02 Windsor Spitfires OHL 67 17 42 59
2005-06 Los Angeles Kings NHL 78 2 19 21

Willie Mitchell
1998-99 Clarkson University ECAC 34 10 19 29
2008-09 Vancouver Canucks NHL 82 3 20 23

Marc Staal
2005-06 Sudbury Wolves OHL 57 11 38 49
2009-10 New York Rangers NHL 82 8 19 27

M.E Vlasic
2005-06 Quebec Remparts QMJHL 66 16 57 73
2006-07 San Jose Sharks NHL 81 3 23 26 (had one 36P year but has regressed back to his normal form, I'll count it as a fluke)

Zbynek Michalek
2001-02 Shawinigan Cataractes QMJHL 68 16 35 51
2006-07 Phoenix Coyotes NHL 82 4 24 28

Scott Hannan
1998-99 Kelowna Rockets WHL 47 15 30 45
2006-07 San Jose Sharks NHL 79 4 20 24

Andy Sutton
1997-98 Michigan Tech WCHA 38 16 24 40
2005-06 Atlanta Thrashers NHL 76 8 17 25

Hal Gill
1996-97 Providence College H-East 35 5 16 21
2007-08 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 63 2 18 20

Jeff Schultz
2005-06 Calgary Hitmen WHL 68 7 33 40
2009-10 Washington Capitals NHL 73 3 20 23

Craig Rivet
1992-93 Kingston Frontenacs OHL 64 19 55 74
2007-08 San Jose Sharks NHL 74 5 30 35



I think Cowen ends up as a 5-10G, 20-30P elite shutdown defenseman. We should be very happy with that turn out IMO.

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Old
04-18-2011, 07:39 AM
  #31
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Don't look now, but Jade Cowan is quietly emerging as one of the most poised defensive prospects this organization has EVER had.


Discuss.

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Old
04-18-2011, 07:46 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by HappyGilmour View Post
Don't look now, but Jade Cowan is quietly emerging as one of the most poised defensive prospects this organization has EVER had.


Discuss.
She may be good, but I think Jared Cowen has a better shot.

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04-18-2011, 08:13 AM
  #33
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She may be good, but I think Jared Cowen has a better shot.
But seriously how good would a Jade Cowen - Rick Karlsson pairing be?

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04-18-2011, 08:29 AM
  #34
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But seriously how good would a Jade Cowen - Rick Karlsson pairing be?
Pete Regin-Col Greening-Rick Condra

Jade Cowen-Rick Karlsson

Rob Lehner

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Old
04-18-2011, 09:33 AM
  #35
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Jade Cowen? Cmon, everybody knows...


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04-18-2011, 09:46 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by LeafRaker View Post
Pete Regin-Col Greening-Rick Condra

Jade Cowen-Rick Karlsson

Rob Lehner
Dope lineup, but no James Spezza?

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Old
04-18-2011, 09:49 AM
  #37
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Dope lineup, but no James Spezza?
James is on a line with Miles Michalek and Dan Alfredsson

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04-18-2011, 10:36 AM
  #38
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Aside from his progression offensively, I was pleased to see him scrap with a few of the WHL Heavyweights this season. Handled himself very well, too. If he can carry a chip on his shoulder physically over to the NHL, that will be great. His skating and speed will continue to improve in the years ahead, as he is probably already at his long-term weight in the NHL. More strength and refinement of his skating will make him a bit quicker off the mark (his top speed is already decent).

I would hope he and Rundblad actually start the year next year in Bingo. Both could play 25 minutes a night down there for the first half of the season, including on the PP and PK, and then get a call up based on their play and the health of the NHL team. Plus, we might move Kuba at mid-season as a rental next year if we aren't a contender (likely), and that would make room for one or both of these guys.

Obviously one or both might play their way on to the team at camp, but with decent depth, I'd rather see them in Bingo rather than play 12-14 minutes a night. At least in the first half of the year, and especially for Rundblad who will need a season to get used to the smaller rinks. The more ice time the better.

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Old
04-18-2011, 10:52 AM
  #39
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How would Cowen be Ranked compared to Larsson?

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04-18-2011, 10:56 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e) View Post
Aside from his progression offensively, I was pleased to see him scrap with a few of the WHL Heavyweights this season. Handled himself very well, too.
Wouldn't he be bigger and taller then most? I should hope he can handle himself in a fight against heavyweights.He is a heavyweight...6'5,230? He's bigger then carkner. If he couldn't handle himself against 17-18 year old fighters i would be worried.

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Old
04-18-2011, 11:00 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e) View Post
Aside from his progression offensively, I was pleased to see him scrap with a few of the WHL Heavyweights this season. Handled himself very well, too. If he can carry a chip on his shoulder physically over to the NHL, that will be great. His skating and speed will continue to improve in the years ahead, as he is probably already at his long-term weight in the NHL. More strength and refinement of his skating will make him a bit quicker off the mark (his top speed is already decent).

I would hope he and Rundblad actually start the year next year in Bingo. Both could play 25 minutes a night down there for the first half of the season, including on the PP and PK, and then get a call up based on their play and the health of the NHL team. Plus, we might move Kuba at mid-season as a rental next year if we aren't a contender (likely), and that would make room for one or both of these guys.

Obviously one or both might play their way on to the team at camp, but with decent depth, I'd rather see them in Bingo rather than play 12-14 minutes a night. At least in the first half of the year, and especially for Rundblad who will need a season to get used to the smaller rinks. The more ice time the better.
Chances are he isn't at his final weight. He's around 235 now, up from 225 at the start of the year approx. He's growing. I'd say he's got a better chance to filling out to 245-250 than staying at 235.

At least one of those two will not have to "play their way on", at least one would have to "play their way off". There will be a spot for one of those guys guaranteed, potentially two depending on the futures of B Lee or Kuba.

Quote:
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How would Cowen be Ranked compared to Larsson?
Half. Seriously.

Honestly think Larsson can basically do anything Cowen can defensively...except Larsson can handle the puck, maneuver, outlet all at MUCH higher levels than Cowen can, and at a younger age.

Cowen may be a tougher player to escape along the wall and may cover more range. There might be a more punishing potential with Cowen, but Larsson can do it at high levels at both ends...just a much better athlete in a smaller frame..but Larsson has a great frame either way.

Larsson's underrated. He's the best prospect in this draft, now that's not to say he'll definitely be the best player from this draft...but it's to say he's certainly, IMO, the surest bet. If he played in the CHL or in college...I don't think you'd see him fall passed 2 on any mock or list.

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Old
04-18-2011, 11:01 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mat_sens View Post
How would Cowen be Ranked compared to Larsson?
3 inches taller


edit: but seriously, it's foolhardy to project these guys against each other yet. Larsson hasn't proven anything in NA yet. Some guys look amazing in the SEL and it just doesn't translate.

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04-18-2011, 11:28 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mat_sens View Post
How would Cowen be Ranked compared to Larsson?
Cowens way more physical, Larssons a little better positionally, a better skater, WAY better at passing and better offensive insticts all around. I think Cowen will be an elite defensive 30-35 pt DMan, Larsson will be an elite defensive 50+ point DMan who moves the puck up ice better than almost anyone. First pass like a prime Wade Redden. Hell, a prime Wade Redden with better D is a pretty decent comparison I'd say.

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Old
04-18-2011, 11:28 AM
  #44
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In regards to Cowen's game last night, I liked what I saw.

Cowen scored an opening minute goal that I did not see, finished the game +2 and earned 2nd star only behind SPK goalie.

Puck movement: Meh, still has that tendency to only want to move it down the wall on the outlet, sometimes a little slow...but he was hitting tape. In the offensive zone his decisions seemed a bit quicker and his mindset seemed to always be to get the puck to Kichton (his Karlsson) as quick as possible, he did so quickly.

Battles: Man amongst boys. Keeping the puck in the O zone, getting the puck out of the D zone... you could see why Chilliwack's coach said he shouldn't be in this league. He won his board battles easily, used his body to keep offenders away from his stick and sometimes took someone elses check just because he knew he'd come out with it.

Skating: Impressed me. It was my first real viewing of Cowen since WJC but my impression was that his skating had improved since. Looked natural, pivots, cross overs all were good and great for the biggest player in major junior. He wasn't afraid to take chances against the small and fast Tri City team because he was able to match them stride for stride anyways it seemed. Pro size, pro skating. Even his first couple steps looked surprisingly good.

Gap control: Not all that easy to assess but he didn't come close to being beaten one on one last night. The Ams appeared to try to keep it away from his side and if they had to, they dumped it to be safe...and he stuck with them all the way to the end boards. There were some instances where he kinda popped up towards their breakout just to scare them, and it did. He would also use a strong pivot to help his partner close off the break out. Lots of confidence in his skating in the neutral zone.

Shot/PP work: Didn't see one. I think I only saw 1 PP and they didn't get much going. Every time he touched the puck on the point he was pressured, same with Kichton. Doesn't have the lateral mobility and confident puck control/handling to make a lane out of nothing...but he can move the puck across naturally and that'll serve him well with either of his future partners.

Hands: I think there was some improvement here but this is probably his biggest issue. He doesn't seem to have the confidence to retrieve a puck, make pivots with it while being pressured...if he's heading back to the zone to retrieve a puck under pressure he tends to just try and back hand it out off the glass as quick as possible...sometimes it looks dangerous. He missed one and it almost caused a goal but he was saved by the horn. His long stick doesn't help this but it's part of why his strengths are what they are.

Infront of the net his stick was always on an opposing player, he was the cloud that was always disrupting offense. When a scramble occurred in front of his net he was basically a 2nd goaltender and the guy that was making a clean attempt impossible.

Nachbaur had him and Kichton on the ice every chance he got. Sometimes it seemed like every 2nd change. He was clearly the only pro caliber player on the ice and probably the biggest difference maker, although Spokane's goaltender made some huge stops. No one wanted to challenge him, at least not when he was looking, they would try and wear him down with hits and such but it was mostly just comedy. His game last night led me to believe he's the main reason this team beats anyone in the WHL that is all that good. He doesn't make it look pretty, but I think that's just him trying to make a defensive difference every shift, any way possible. It works.

The ability to control the puck and maneuver together in unison is where I'd love to see his game improve the most over the next couple years.

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Old
04-18-2011, 11:31 AM
  #45
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3 inches taller


edit: but seriously, it's foolhardy to project these guys against each other yet. Larsson hasn't proven anything in NA yet. Some guys look amazing in the SEL and it just doesn't translate.
It's not foolhardy at all. People are paid to make these assessments. He's 6'2 210 and he can feather a 30 foot saucer pass across the neutral zone on one foot. Most players just can't do it.

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04-18-2011, 11:45 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
In regards to Cowen's game last night, I liked what I saw.

Cowen scored an opening minute goal that I did not see, finished the game +2 and earned 2nd star only behind SPK goalie.

Puck movement: Meh, still has that tendency to only want to move it down the wall on the outlet, sometimes a little slow...but he was hitting tape. In the offensive zone his decisions seemed a bit quicker and his mindset seemed to always be to get the puck to Kichton (his Karlsson) as quick as possible, he did so quickly.

Battles: Man amongst boys. Keeping the puck in the O zone, getting the puck out of the D zone... you could see why Chilliwack's coach said he shouldn't be in this league. He won his board battles easily, used his body to keep offenders away from his stick and sometimes took someone elses check just because he knew he'd come out with it.

Skating: Impressed me. It was my first real viewing of Cowen since WJC but my impression was that his skating had improved since. Looked natural, pivots, cross overs all were good and great for the biggest player in major junior. He wasn't afraid to take chances against the small and fast Tri City team because he was able to match them stride for stride anyways it seemed. Pro size, pro skating. Even his first couple steps looked surprisingly good.

Gap control: Not all that easy to assess but he didn't come close to being beaten one on one last night. The Ams appeared to try to keep it away from his side and if they had to, they dumped it to be safe...and he stuck with them all the way to the end boards. There were some instances where he kinda popped up towards their breakout just to scare them, and it did. He would also use a strong pivot to help his partner close off the break out. Lots of confidence in his skating in the neutral zone.

Shot/PP work: Didn't see one. I think I only saw 1 PP and they didn't get much going. Every time he touched the puck on the point he was pressured, same with Kichton. Doesn't have the lateral mobility and confident puck control/handling to make a lane out of nothing...but he can move the puck across naturally and that'll serve him well with either of his future partners.

Hands: I think there was some improvement here but this is probably his biggest issue. He doesn't seem to have the confidence to retrieve a puck, make pivots with it while being pressured...if he's heading back to the zone to retrieve a puck under pressure he tends to just try and back hand it out off the glass as quick as possible...sometimes it looks dangerous. He missed one and it almost caused a goal but he was saved by the horn. His long stick doesn't help this but it's part of why his strengths are what they are.

Infront of the net his stick was always on an opposing player, he was the cloud that was always disrupting offense. When a scramble occurred in front of his net he was basically a 2nd goaltender and the guy that was making a clean attempt impossible.

Nachbaur had him and Kichton on the ice every chance he got. Sometimes it seemed like every 2nd change. He was clearly the only pro caliber player on the ice and probably the biggest difference maker, although Spokane's goaltender made some huge stops. No one wanted to challenge him, at least not when he was looking, they would try and wear him down with hits and such but it was mostly just comedy. His game last night led me to believe he's the main reason this team beats anyone in the WHL that is all that good. He doesn't make it look pretty, but I think that's just him trying to make a defensive difference every shift, any way possible. It works.

The ability to control the puck and maneuver together in unison is where I'd love to see his game improve the most over the next couple years.
That's exactly why i'd love him to be paired with Karlsson next year. Karlsson played some of his best hockey when he was paired with Sutton and Cowen can provide everthing Sutton can plus he can provide help on offense which Sutton couldn't and his defensive instincts are off the charts compared to Sutton.

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Old
04-18-2011, 11:49 AM
  #47
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Wouldn't he be bigger and taller then most? I should hope he can handle himself in a fight against heavyweights.He is a heavyweight...6'5,230? He's bigger then carkner. If he couldn't handle himself against 17-18 year old fighters i would be worried.
Here's one against Taylor Jordon - Portland's tough guy. He is 21, a boxer and is 6'6. Cowen beats him pretty badly, I'd say.
http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/102068

Fight against Cody Beach. Another guy who is 6'6 and a tough guy (200 PIM's or so). Quick fight, but you can see Cowen definitely likes to slip in some lefts, like he did against Jordon (often)
http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/97822

Even the fights against guys slightly smaller, they tend to be the toughest guy on the team.

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04-18-2011, 11:54 AM
  #48
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Here's him beating on a smally...lol

http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/102382

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Old
04-18-2011, 12:22 PM
  #49
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It's not foolhardy at all. People are paid to make these assessments. He's 6'2 210 and he can feather a 30 foot saucer pass across the neutral zone on one foot. Most players just can't do it.
Take away 1.5 seconds because of the size of the rink, the size of the players, the speed of the players, the impact of the hits, etc, etc, etc. Does he still make that play? Or does he make that play and get crushed?

Let's watch him play in NA and see how he reacts. Not trying to harsh anyone's vibe here, just maintaining some calm.


edit: I should point out that I'm very, very excited to see Runblad play. I can't wait for both these kids (Cowen, Runblad) to get some ice time. I just want to keep my expectation realistic. I think the Sens defence corps are going to be the envy of the league with Karlsson, Runblad, Cowen, etc in another year or two.

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04-18-2011, 12:42 PM
  #50
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Take away 1.5 seconds because of the size of the rink, the size of the players, the speed of the players, the impact of the hits, etc, etc, etc. Does he still make that play? Or does he make that play and get crushed?

Let's watch him play in NA and see how he reacts. Not trying to harsh anyone's vibe here, just maintaining some calm.


edit: I should point out that I'm very, very excited to see Runblad play. I can't wait for both these kids (Cowen, Runblad) to get some ice time. I just want to keep my expectation realistic. I think the Sens defence corps are going to be the envy of the league with Karlsson, Runblad, Cowen, etc in another year or two.
My point is you could put Cowen in the middle of the Artic and he couldn't make that play. There's a difference in ability, size of the rink doesn't change the skills a player undeniably has.

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