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Old
04-18-2011, 10:32 AM
  #1
backhandsauce
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Brent Burns

I keep hearing his name out there that could be had at the draft.

What does it take to get him? LA's pick and a prospect? I read they do not want salary coming back...

At 6'5 and 219 pounds, I think he would solidify our top 4 and be a nice guy to pair up with Ryan Whitney.

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04-18-2011, 10:36 AM
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Why would Minny even consider moving him?

I think if your hearing his name it is more to do with pipedreams unless the Wild can't afford to sign him due to a self-imposed cap.

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04-18-2011, 10:45 AM
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...if that prospect is Marincin, and we add in one of Hall/Eberle/Paajarvi.

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04-18-2011, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
...if that prospect is Marincin, and we add in one of Hall/Eberle/Paajarvi.
...yes if we are looking to acquire him from Minny. His value won't be that high if Minny is looking to trade him. Try Smid and Marincin.

But I'm still curious where these rumors are coming from.

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04-18-2011, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
...yes if we are looking to acquire him from Minny. His value won't be that high if Minny is looking to trade him. Try Smid and Marincin.

But I'm still curious where these rumors are coming from.
Almost every other team could best that offer if Burns was available, even if Minnesota was "looking to trade him".

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04-18-2011, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
Almost every other team could best that offer if Burns was available, even if Minnesota was "looking to trade him".
I'm sure they could. I'm just saying that that is more likely the value you would be looking at. Probably plus a higher pick.

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04-18-2011, 11:06 AM
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I wonder if Minny would have any interest in Gilbert, Minny native and all.

Why wouldn't they want salary back, they aren't close to the cap and sell out every game?

Gilbert, LAK 1st, Pitlick, 31st overall.

Or Hemsky and LAK 1st.

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04-18-2011, 11:11 AM
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Pipe dream, look at a team with cap issues if you want a young, #1 defender.

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04-18-2011, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by rigger View Post
Pipe dream, look at a team with cap issues if you want a young, #1 defender.
Well Minny was flirting with the cap this year and even though they have some money coming of the books they have Koivu making double the money next year.

Minny is going to be interesting to be honest. Does ownership go into a rebuild or do they once again try quick fixes?

How was Zanon this year? That is one guy I wouldn't mind targeting.

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04-18-2011, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by rigger View Post
Pipe dream, look at a team with cap issues if you want a young, #1 defender.
Minny isn't exactly in wonderful cap shape.

Havlat 4 more years at 5 mill
Bouchard 2 more years at over 4 mill
Cullen 2 more years at over 3 mill
Koivu 7 more years at 6.75
Nystom and Clutterbuck 2 more years at 1.4
Zidlicky 2 more years at 4 mill
Schultz 3 more years at 3.5
Backstrom 2 more years at 6 mill
Burns has one more year left on his deal and will be expecting a raise over 3.55 I would guess.

I wouldn't deal him if I was them but they could probably get max value about now.

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04-18-2011, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Minny isn't exactly in wonderful cap shape.

Havlat 4 more years at 5 mill
Bouchard 2 more years at over 4 mill
Cullen 2 more years at over 3 mill
Koivu 7 more years at 6.75
Nystom and Clutterbuck 2 more years at 1.4
Zidlicky 2 more years at 4 mill
Schultz 3 more years at 3.5
Backstrom 2 more years at 6 mill
Burns has one more year left on his deal and will be expecting a raise over 3.55 I would guess.

I wouldn't deal him if I was them but they could probably get max value about now.
Tamby hasn't shown any kind of shrewdness in order to pull off a deal like that. If he does I will eat that comment.

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04-18-2011, 12:24 PM
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Pass on Burns. Plenty of holes in his game, definately not worth 4 'ish. There are players who have good yrs and then there are good players, Brent is the earlier of the two. Burns had a career yr last season, let someone else overpay for him. Best try and get Bogosian out of Atlanta and hope to get a shot at Weber next summer.


Last edited by Moneypuck: 04-18-2011 at 12:39 PM.
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04-18-2011, 12:24 PM
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i'd offer the LA pick and Smid. anything more is not worth it since we won't win the trade. its not about getting value with trades, but instead about winning ever single trade we make. Put simply - if we don't win the trade, don't do it. That's how teams like chicago got to the Cup - for example the Sharp trade for basically nothing.

Our team is ok now, we might as well wait for winning trades. Any lateral trade won't get us anywhere. An example of a lateral move is trading Hemsky for Burns (let alone adding in a 1st round pick...). Smid and a 1st might be viewed as an underpayment, but that's what it is, because this team shouldn't be overpaying any time soon.

We'll probably be a bottom 5 team next year as well (I hope not, but it is a possibility), so there's no rush to get guys like Burns this year....but he's an example of a nice piece to add if the other team "needs" to trade him, since they would be cheaper.

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04-18-2011, 12:25 PM
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I doubt he is really available, but if he is, make a strong play for him please. LA's first, Smid and Omark (or another offensive based guy on a cheap salary that isn't PRV, Eberle or Hall). Add from there if necessary. The draft is in Minnesota this year, so draft picks will be valuable to them I think.

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04-18-2011, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Quicksilver ballet View Post
Pass on Burns. Plenty of holes in his game, definately not worth 4 'ish. Best try and get Bogosian out of Atlanta and hope to get a shot at Weber next summer.
So you say Burns has defensive holes and would rather go with Bogosian? Kinda contradictory no?

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04-18-2011, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ales83fan View Post
i'd offer the LA pick and Smid. anything more is not worth it since we won't win the trade. its not about getting value with trades, but instead about winning ever single trade we make. Put simply - if we don't win the trade, don't do it. That's how teams like chicago got to the Cup - for example the Sharp trade for basically nothing.

Our team is ok now, we might as well wait for winning trades. Any lateral trade won't get us anywhere. An example of a lateral move is trading Hemsky for Burns (let alone adding in a 1st round pick...). Smid and a 1st might be viewed as an underpayment, but that's what it is, because this team shouldn't be overpaying any time soon.

We'll probably be a bottom 5 team next year as well (I hope not, but it is a possibility), so there's no rush to get guys like Burns this year....but he's an example of a nice piece to add if the other team "needs" to trade him, since they would be cheaper.
Almost everything you just wrote is wrong. We are not "ok", we are the worst team in the NHL for the second straight year. We also have arguably the worst defense in the NHL. If we can get a top pairing d-man who is nearing his prime, then do it, overpay if necessary. I would be in favor of moving Hemsky out in a deal for Burns, and adding Smid if necessary, but I think Minnesota wants another first round pick in the deal. Heck, make it a bigger deal.

To Minnesota : Hemsky, LA's 1st round pick, Ladislav Smid

To Edmonton: Brent Burns, either Nystrom or Kobasew, and a 3rd round pick.

Burns is the most valuable piece in the deal, so we instantly need to overpay, but I think this is quite fair.

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04-18-2011, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver ballet View Post
Pass on Burns. Plenty of holes in his game, definately not worth 4 'ish. Best try and get Bogosian out of Atlanta and hope to get a shot at Weber next summer.
lolwut.

As a franchise we're not even in a position to make a play on Burns, LET ALONE EVEN MENTIONING going for Weber. Bogosian, maybe.

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04-18-2011, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
Tamby hasn't shown any kind of shrewdness in order to pull off a deal like that. If he does I will eat that comment.
Well he hasn't really had to make trades yet, but he did make a deal for Whitney and O'Sullivan. And as small as the O'Sullivan deal may seem now lets not forget that he was able to salvage the Pitkanen deal that Lowe pretty much gave up on by getting a UFA for.

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Old
04-18-2011, 01:00 PM
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Good luck with that. Minny is not moving Burns. Why should they? If they do have cap issues, they will get rid of someone more expendable. Not a legit top pairing defensemen in his prime.

Just don't see us giving the goods to get him. Or even Tambo making a deal to get him if he was available.

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04-18-2011, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Well he hasn't really had to make trades yet, but he did make a deal for Whitney and O'Sullivan. And as small as the O'Sullivan deal may seem now lets not forget that he was able to salvage the Pitkanen deal that Lowe pretty much gave up on by getting a UFA for.
As much as you might want to, you can't forget Kotalik.

Also I don't think the P.O.S. deal salvaged anything, unless you want to argue it helped the fall for Hall.

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04-18-2011, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Almost everything you just wrote is wrong. We are not "ok", we are the worst team in the NHL for the second straight year. We also have arguably the worst defense in the NHL. If we can get a top pairing d-man who is nearing his prime, then do it, overpay if necessary. I would be in favor of moving Hemsky out in a deal for Burns, and adding Smid if necessary, but I think Minnesota wants another first round pick in the deal. Heck, make it a bigger deal.

To Minnesota : Hemsky, LA's 1st round pick, Ladislav Smid

To Edmonton: Brent Burns, either Nystrom or Kobasew, and a 3rd round pick.

Burns is the most valuable piece in the deal, so we instantly need to overpay, but I think this is quite fair.
We are not a Burns away from winning the cup. Burns is just the newest fad - those change quickly. Last year it was seabrook who was equal to god....all of these guys are beatable, and are far from saviours. Trust me, they'd look terrible in an Oiler jersey.... a la Pitkanen. You don't buy a guy when he is at his highest worth. I remember two years ago you could have had Burns for almost anything. He could always regress, and you're ready to move 3 good pieces for him.

Trades for the sake of trades, the perpetual rebuild. I'm not going ot have a pissing match with you, but you are wrong. The team does not get better if we move Hemsky, a 1st and Smid for Burns. It creates holes where there are strengths. And anyone thinking we should move Hemsky now needs to take an economics course....who sells assets at their lowest value? Playing Hemsky 6 times a season would prove to us how good he really is.

Like I said, buy low on someone. Get Bogosian. Sign a Kaberle or Markov for a short-term deal. Get Gormley or OEL out of Phoenix (I realize their price is through the roof, but we could wait). Wait for someone's relationship to sour with their parent club - e.g. If Gudbrandson (sic) and FLA don't work out....


Also, would we be in last place if everyone is healthy? I don't think so..

Like I said though, I got to go study for an exam, so I'm not down for a debate with you on this. I do think that if management would act on your suggestion I would seriously consider finding a new team to cheer for, because that would be the biggest mismanagement of assets in this league and will send us back into the bottom 3 for the next 2 or 3 years. By that time Hall should probably leave the franchise, because he'll see like myself that it's not going anywhere anytime soon.

If we move Hemsky now, we'll try to find a Hemsky 3 years from now....why move him in the first place at his lowest value ever...

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04-18-2011, 01:05 PM
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As much as you might want to, you can't forget Kotalik.

Also I don't think the P.O.S. deal salvaged anything, unless you want to argue it helped the fall for Hall.
Well we traded away a good asset in Pitkanen for a UFA in Cole. Tambo was able to rectify that mistake by Lowe and get a good young player in O'Sullivan, it's just too bad O'Sullivan couldn't continue his numbers from LA to EDM.

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04-18-2011, 01:33 PM
  #23
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As good as he can be he's a bit of a head case. Don't know what it would take to get him out of Minny. He's been real hit or miss for them the past 2 years, been jerking them around a bit in terms of teasing them with glimpses of potential. He was supposed to be a superstar D-man. Would still love to have him in Edmonton.

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04-18-2011, 01:34 PM
  #24
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Is the difference between first overall and 10th overall Brent Burns? With the draft being in Minny this year it might be something for Tambo to look at.

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04-18-2011, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ales83fan View Post
We are not a Burns away from winning the cup. Burns is just the newest fad - those change quickly. Last year it was seabrook who was equal to god....all of these guys are beatable, and are far from saviours. Trust me, they'd look terrible in an Oiler jersey.... a la Pitkanen. You don't buy a guy when he is at his highest worth. I remember two years ago you could have had Burns for almost anything. He could always regress, and you're ready to move 3 good pieces for him.

Trades for the sake of trades, the perpetual rebuild. I'm not going ot have a pissing match with you, but you are wrong. The team does not get better if we move Hemsky, a 1st and Smid for Burns. It creates holes where there are strengths. And anyone thinking we should move Hemsky now needs to take an economics course....who sells assets at their lowest value? Playing Hemsky 6 times a season would prove to us how good he really is.

Like I said, buy low on someone. Get Bogosian. Sign a Kaberle or Markov for a short-term deal. Get Gormley or OEL out of Phoenix (I realize their price is through the roof, but we could wait). Wait for someone's relationship to sour with their parent club - e.g. If Gudbrandson (sic) and FLA don't work out....


Also, would we be in last place if everyone is healthy? I don't think so..

Like I said though, I got to go study for an exam, so I'm not down for a debate with you on this. I do think that if management would act on your suggestion I would seriously consider finding a new team to cheer for, because that would be the biggest mismanagement of assets in this league and will send us back into the bottom 3 for the next 2 or 3 years. By that time Hall should probably leave the franchise, because he'll see like myself that it's not going anywhere anytime soon.

If we move Hemsky now, we'll try to find a Hemsky 3 years from now....why move him in the first place at his lowest value ever...
How exactly would trading for Burns put us back in the rebuild? Getting a top pairing d-man who is young and would be with this team for the long term is a move this team definetely should make. Smid has no future here unless he sees drastic improvement. Hemsky's future here is likely as a second line winger. The first could be great, but could be nothing. Of course Burns isn't going to win us a cup, you bring him in as part of the rebuild, a piece to have for the next 10 years. And yes, there is a chance that he regresses, but there is also a chance that Smid gets no better than he is now, the first turns into nothing, and Hemsky still breaks every year. Bogosian will cost roughly the same as Burns anyway, so that isn't the answer either, and Phoenix isn't moving Gormley or OEL for anything we have to offer. A GM's job is to make trades that will help the team for the short and long term. Trading for Burns does just that. Burns isn't a "fad" either. He's a legitimate top pair d-man, something we only have one of. You have to pay to get quality assets, and Burns is certainly a quality asset. You can't just wait for another great deal to pop up, who's to say that, when another d-man pops up, he isn't just as valuable as Burns is. Or who's to say that the other GM is interested in any of our pieces. If we can get a guy like Burns, do it.

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