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Kings @ Sharks Game #2 - 4/16/11 - POSTGAME THOUGHTS & TIDBITS

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04-18-2011, 05:04 PM
  #226
Martyros
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Well whoever thought it was a good idea in the first place to make the guy who has a history of disappearing when the games matter most the friggin captain is an IDIOT. Joe Thornton as captain? Come on. Why would they walk into a worse captaincy for the playoffs than Marleau had been? Are they hoping that it will have the effect on Thornton as it did Marleau when they take it away from him?

For a team that used to be ALL character (Nolan, Ricci, Damphousse) to name two gutless players captain, with the ****** bag Blake wedged in between, is just ridiculous. McLellan is a great coach, he isn't the problem, that locker room is the problem.

The sooner they name Pavelski their captain, the better off they will be.
Agreed. Pavelski is my favorite player from that team. Never thought Thornton was captain-material. Leader? yes, but not a captain.

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04-18-2011, 05:05 PM
  #227
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Well.... JT,

First off, I'm no Sharks historian. I made the old character team mention, not to say that those teams were better, but that those teams seemed to have what their more recent teams lack. They traded grit for skill, neither has worked because they have always missed too much of one.

I assume Thornton and Marleau were no good in the locker room. Could simply be that they are lead by example types that stopped leading by example when the playoffs roll around... bad captains. I only mentioned Blake because I was going to say "back to back" in regards to Marleau and Thornton, then remembered about Blake, so had to mention him. I don't toss him in with "gutless". That comment was for Marleau and Thornton. I called Blake a ****** bag, well because I think he is a ****** bag... that was really extraneous to the rest of the argument.

Ultimately, my point is this:

Joe Thornton has had a reputation for a long time about being the antithesis of a big game player. To make him captain tells me they are simply hoping that will turn his reputation around and into a positive.

So far, and yes its still early, but so far, we have only seen evidence that his lack of competitiveness in big games is having an even more negative effect on his team as a captain then when he wasn't captain. Its one thing to lose at home in the playoffs... its another to lose the way they did at home in the playoffs.

Zad, who you know was at the game (where you see things you can't see on TV), told me that he saw Thornton arguing with his own bench numerous times in between plays. Specifically having a little screaming match with Clowe during the game. These things only strengthen a point that at this point, is pretty solid to begin with.

Pavelski is young and strikes me as a more clutch performer than anyone else on their team and a good character player. I've always heard many Shark's fans say that he will be their captain one day, so I went with that in suggesting a better one for them.

As for convincing me of their mettle, they simply aren't supposed to look THAT bad only two games into the playoffs. They were visibly demoralized after the Kings second goal. That simply shouldn't happen and is indicative of a persistent problem that has been no secret with that team over the years. Its either a coaching issue or a captaincy issue, and since I like their coach and think, based off what I know (which obviously isn't everything... I shouldn't even have to point that out... its a given), I'm going with it being a captaincy/locker room issue.


Last edited by JDM: 04-18-2011 at 05:11 PM.
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Old
04-18-2011, 05:41 PM
  #228
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Joe Thornton has had a reputation for a long time about being the antithesis of a big game player. To make him captain tells me they are simply hoping that will turn his reputation around and into a positive.

So far, and yes its still early, but so far, we have only seen evidence that his lack of competitiveness in big games is having an even more negative effect on his team as a captain then when he wasn't captain. Its one thing to lose at home in the playoffs... its another to lose the way they did at home in the playoffs.
Couldn't agree more. Handing him the captaincy was a mistake. Although fans make a lot more out of the letters than the players do, here's a guy that's been nothing but a disappointment in the playoffs for the better part of a decade and they pick him as captain? That's all hope.

Dan Boyle should have been the first, last and only choice to captain that team.

The only part I'll divert from you on is Marleau. He's been much maligned and I do think he would respond well to a change of scenery. There is no hope for Thornton.

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04-18-2011, 05:48 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Its one thing to lose at home in the playoffs... its another to lose the way they did at home in the playoffs.

Zad, who you know was at the game (where you see things you can't see on TV), told me that he saw Thornton arguing with his own bench numerous times in between plays. Specifically having a little screaming match with Clowe during the game. These things only strengthen a point that at this point, is pretty solid to begin with.

Its either a coaching issue or a captaincy issue, and since I like their coach and think, based off what I know (which obviously isn't everything... I shouldn't even have to point that out... its a given), I'm going with it being a captaincy/locker room issue.
... Of course I can't really comment on Thornton having words with guys on the bench because no one really knows what was said and from what I've seen, Clowe seems to yell at everyone. I don't know.

Was Thornton all that bad in game 2? I can't say that I thought he was.

Whereas the Sharks were giving the puck away for most of the game, Thornton put in more time than anyone on the team except for Boyle, and didn't have one giveaway. Thornton was very good on the draw. He played on the PK and neither of the Kings PP goals were scored with him on the ice. In fact, Thornton was the guy who won a battle for the puck with Handzus and cleared it out, and he no sooner got off the ice than the Kings came right back and got the goal from Doughty to make it 2-0. Thornton was the guy who ended up in front of the net on the Clifford goal because Justin Braun got caught chasing Clifford (then lost him) and Wallin was tied up with Simmonds in the slot.

On the offensive side, I usually saw Thornton right in front of Quick on most of the Sharks' chances, so I didn't see a failure to get involved at all. A couple times, he was camped out on one side of the net and rebounds bounced the other way, just bad luck. Of course, the argument always seems to be "he didn't create enough" but from my perspective I thought it was more of a case of the Kings playing good defense and doing much more to win the game than the Sharks did to lose it. I've been trying to watch Thornton as much as anyone, precisely because of his reputation. Granted, I'm limited to watching on TV, but I'm not seeing any lack of effort on his part, and I don't see anything in the numbers that would indicate otherwise.

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04-18-2011, 05:54 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
Couldn't agree more. Handing him the captaincy was a mistake. Although fans make a lot more out of the letters than the players do, here's a guy that's been nothing but a disappointment in the playoffs for the better part of a decade and they pick him as captain? That's all hope.

Dan Boyle should have been the first, last and only choice to captain that team.

The only part I'll divert from you on is Marleau. He's been much maligned and I do think he would respond well to a change of scenery. There is no hope for Thornton.
I like Marleau as a player, always have. I don't think he's really in the same category as Thornton when you break it down, because I think Marleau can be a big game player but simply isn't the kind who can do his thing on the ice and be responsible for the team off it. I lump them together only in the sense that neither make good captains.

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04-18-2011, 06:41 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... Of course I can't really comment on Thornton having words with guys on the bench because no one really knows what was said and from what I've seen, Clowe seems to yell at everyone. I don't know.

Was Thornton all that bad in game 2? I can't say that I thought he was.

Whereas the Sharks were giving the puck away for most of the game, Thornton put in more time than anyone on the team except for Boyle, and didn't have one giveaway. Thornton was very good on the draw. He played on the PK and neither of the Kings PP goals were scored with him on the ice. In fact, Thornton was the guy who won a battle for the puck with Handzus and cleared it out, and he no sooner got off the ice than the Kings came right back and got the goal from Doughty to make it 2-0. Thornton was the guy who ended up in front of the net on the Clifford goal because Justin Braun got caught chasing Clifford (then lost him) and Wallin was tied up with Simmonds in the slot.

On the offensive side, I usually saw Thornton right in front of Quick on most of the Sharks' chances, so I didn't see a failure to get involved at all. A couple times, he was camped out on one side of the net and rebounds bounced the other way, just bad luck. Of course, the argument always seems to be "he didn't create enough" but from my perspective I thought it was more of a case of the Kings playing good defense and doing much more to win the game than the Sharks did to lose it. I've been trying to watch Thornton as much as anyone, precisely because of his reputation. Granted, I'm limited to watching on TV, but I'm not seeing any lack of effort on his part, and I don't see anything in the numbers that would indicate otherwise.
On the FSN broadcast check out the break with 53.8 seconds remaining in the 2nd period. You can clearly see Thornton and Setoguchi screaming at each other with tons of f-bombs. It's absolutely priceless.

Dutch, I'm not sure which game you watched the other night but Jumbo Joe looked like an idiot out there. If it wasn't for the fact that you could see the players throwing hissy fits on the bench, I'd almost be inclined to demand an investigation from the NHL to figure out why the Sharks deliberately threw the game.

Give the Kings their due, they exucuted and played great, but I'm having a hard time believing they are capable of producing another healthy steamer such as the one presented to us on Saturday night.


Last edited by The Butcher: 04-18-2011 at 06:43 PM. Reason: I had to
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Old
04-18-2011, 06:51 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by lakingsdrummer View Post
On the FSN broadcast check out the break with 53.8 seconds remaining in the 2nd period. You can clearly see Thornton and Setoguchi screaming at each other with tons of f-bombs. It's absolutely priceless.
... Yeah I was in Canada at the time and saw the TSN feed.

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Originally Posted by lakingsdrummer View Post
Dutch, I'm not sure which game you watched the other night but Jumbo Joe looked like an idiot out there.
... Again, I guess I didn't see it. It looked like Marleau was really struggling, and Ray Ferraro was on him for it. Thornton wasn't mentioned much at all, they just talked about his reputation in the playoffs for a bit (like everyone) but he wasn't singled out for playing poorly and I didn't see any reason for them to do so.

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04-18-2011, 06:58 PM
  #233
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I would have loved to hear the Ferraro commentary on this game. He's refreshingly blunt.

I wish TSN archived their games.

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04-18-2011, 07:53 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Slippery Moses View Post
The Sharks board seems pretty pissed with their PK system, which from what I gather is focused on eliminating east-west passes to the vulnerable back door of the crease. Which is baffling considering we haven't made one of those since the Bush administration. Were they to just key to our points, the PP would be its usual debacle.
Yeah they are preventing that same cross ice (back door) pass that some posters think never happens in the NHL anymore.

Fact is their PK was weak, mostly unaggressive and was waiting to picl off the blueline pass.

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This is just my opinion.

Unnecessary for the win.... yes. But beating the pacific division champs at home by blanking them 4-0 really sends the point across for the whole series. I feel 10x more confident in this team winning the last game 4-0 and not, say, even 4-1. Good confidence move by Murray.
I actually thought, based upon who was put out after the timeout, that TM was preaching a control the game dont get injured or stir it up too much approach. Of course, then Simmer and Mayers tangled, but I still thought it was more of "the game is in hand, lets not let it get out of control (physically speaking) speech.

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So...no blackout tomorrow? Hopefully we will have towels.

Whoever came up with pom-poms for San Jose needs to be fired.
We joked with Luc about that!

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people on the sharks forums are still so pissed, they are talking about trading Thornton...WTF hahahaha.
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post

Joe Thornton has had a reputation for a long time about being the antithesis of a big game player. To make him captain tells me they are simply hoping that will turn his reputation around and into a positive.
As I said to Mick Kearns on NHL radio this a.m., If the Sharks ever want to make real noise in the playoffs, they are going to have to get Joe Thornton a throat transplant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Zad, who you know was at the game (where you see things you can't see on TV), told me that he saw Thornton arguing with his own bench numerous times in between plays. Specifically having a little screaming match with Clowe during the game. These things only strengthen a point that at this point, is pretty solid to begin with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakingsdrummer View Post
On the FSN broadcast check out the break with 53.8 seconds remaining in the 2nd period. You can clearly see Thornton and Setoguchi screaming at each other with tons of f-bombs. It's absolutely priceless.
.
Watching Joe Throaton meltdown and yell at his teammates on the bench, showed me this team is fragile and about one more victory away from a major breakdown.

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