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Old
09-11-2010, 11:10 PM
  #26
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Huh?

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Old
04-18-2011, 01:07 AM
  #27
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Was going to post the below comment in the game day thread and thought id look for a more appropriate thread and came across this thread i started a while back. Some interesting posts. Considering we are much closer to a contender than we thought at the beginning of the season its probably much easier to predict what it will be now.

My comment:
"I think Bonino gets a full time spot next year. Obviously Mac too. Palmieri, Sexton and Beleskey idk. Going to be an interesting camp."

It seems Fowler was maybe NHL ready in a couple years and possibly a bust. Well we know that answer to that one already.

I saw a post with Mac on the 4th(?) line in a couple years. What a surprise he is!

Oh ya, I miss Bodie! Why did we get rid of him again? i forget. I thought he was going to be the next checker in the Moen mold.

I probably should have saved this for the offseason. Im not saying our season is over at all! We are winning the cup! But, i like talking hockey.

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04-18-2011, 01:13 AM
  #28
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Oh and the 2012-2013 cup contender lineup just may be the 2011-2012 lineup. Go Ducks!

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Old
04-18-2011, 02:11 AM
  #29
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If Selšnne comes back, then the top lines are the same. Unless Murray does some magic trick with Blake and turns him into someone more usefull.

Third line should have McMillan and Bonino in it. Third guy could be Palmieri or some FA. I prefer our own guys (cheaper).

Fourth line is interesting. Marchant is probably retiring and Chipchura hasn't been good. Bring in Rob Niedermayer or someone else who is an upgrade. Keep Winchester and try Maroon in that line so after next season when probably the whole Old Guys -line is gone, we have some guys with NHL -experience to take over (I hope that Koivu can still play so he'll be the new third line center).

Defence stays the same but I would get some upgrade over Sutton and Brookbank. Some guy who can play basic defence (partner for Fowler obviously).

Goalie situation is interesting but I hope Hiller comes back. If he retires, what happens to his salary?

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04-18-2011, 02:26 AM
  #30
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Oh ya, I miss Bodie! Why did we get rid of him again? i forget. I thought he was going to be the next checker in the Moen mold.
Waived to Carolina... Ducks wanted to give him an opportunity since he was a healthy scratch in like 10 of 11 games or something...

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04-18-2011, 02:42 AM
  #31
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Pretty sure Bodie has been pretty average in Carolina

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04-18-2011, 12:35 PM
  #32
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Goalie situation is interesting but I hope Hiller comes back. If he retires, what happens to his salary?
My understanding is that if Hiller retires his salary comes off of the books. If stays, but is on long term injured reserve he gets paid, but the Ducks get salary relief from the cap up to the amount of his salary, if the Ducks exceed the cap.

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Old
04-18-2011, 12:45 PM
  #33
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Bodie has been very mediocre in Carolina. Pretty much the same player he was here, a solid 4th liner who can drop the gloves.

I think a Belesekey-Bonino-Mac line is a good 3rd line at all. If that's our 3rd line next year, it's no improvement. Depth must be addressed this offseason, and if that's Murray's attempt next offseason, it's as big of a fail as this past offseason (aside from Lydman).

Sutton should (& better be) moved, so we will need to find a partner for Cam. If Murray is good, he can pull off trading Blake. He's only got one more year left on his deal, so it should be at least possible now. Maybe, 1st, prospect, and Blake for Weiss. Tallon is a moron so I think it's more possible then most here do. If that happened, we'd be set up very nicely:

RPG
Mac-Koivu-Selanne
Belesekey-Weiss-Palmeri/FA
Ruutu-Marchant/Chip/FA-Parros

All I know is that this season has shown us that we aren't deep enough to be a contender.

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Old
04-18-2011, 12:46 PM
  #34
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Won't let me edit the post above on an Iphone. But I meant to say that line is NOT a good 3rd line at all.

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Old
04-18-2011, 02:35 PM
  #35
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Bodie has been very mediocre in Carolina. Pretty much the same player he was here, a solid 4th liner who can drop the gloves.

I think a Belesekey-Bonino-Mac line is a good 3rd line at all. If that's our 3rd line next year, it's no improvement. Depth must be addressed this offseason, and if that's Murray's attempt next offseason, it's as big of a fail as this past offseason (aside from Lydman).

Sutton should (& better be) moved, so we will need to find a partner for Cam. If Murray is good, he can pull off trading Blake. He's only got one more year left on his deal, so it should be at least possible now. Maybe, 1st, prospect, and Blake for Weiss. Tallon is a moron so I think it's more possible then most here do. If that happened, we'd be set up very nicely:

RPG
Mac-Koivu-Selanne
Belesekey-Weiss-Palmeri/FA
Ruutu-Marchant/Chip/FA-Parros

All I know is that this season has shown us that we aren't deep enough to be a contender.
Tallon assembled the Cup winning Blackhawks. He sucks at cap management but he sure as hell isn't a moron (don't bring up Grabner, I have no explanation for that). Why would he give up his only marketable player for a low 1st, a negative value contract, and any prospect the Ducks would be willing to give up. The only way that trade works is for Holland AND Vatenen/Schultz in addition to the 1st and Blake, and Weiss isn't worth that IMO. Weiss also goes UFA the same year as Getzlaf, Perry, Visnovsky, and Lydman - fun year.

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Old
04-18-2011, 02:40 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Tallon assembled the Cup winning Blackhawks. He sucks at cap management but he sure as hell isn't a moron (don't bring up Grabner, I have no explanation for that). Why would he give up his only marketable player for a low 1st, a negative value contract, and any prospect the Ducks would be willing to give up. The only way that trade works is for Holland AND Vatenen/Schultz in addition to the 1st and Blake, and Weiss isn't worth that IMO. Weiss also goes UFA the same year as Getzlaf, Perry, Visnovsky, and Lydman - fun year.
Vis will likely be let go at that point in time. Lydman will likely be resigned at the same dollar amount depending on his play up till then. Sbisa-Fowler should be the top pair at that time with the next pair coming from some combination of Schultz/Vatanen/Mitera/Lind/Clark/Lydman/UFA.

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04-18-2011, 02:45 PM
  #37
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Vis will likely be let go at that point in time. Lydman will likely be resigned at the same dollar amount depending on his play up till then. Sbisa-Fowler should be the top pair at that time with the next pair coming from some combination of Schultz/Vatanen/Mitera/Lind/Clark/Lydman/UFA.
I thinks it's going to be only one or the other. Also, I don't think Mitera will make it at this point so that leaves only maybe Clark and De Gray. Maybe Randy will convert Mc.875Million to a defenseman(yes, he has played defense before). We're set on offensive d but I'm not optimistic on our defensive d guys like Mitera, Clark, and de Gray.

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Old
04-18-2011, 02:48 PM
  #38
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Vis will likely be let go at that point in time. Lydman will likely be resigned at the same dollar amount depending on his play up till then. Sbisa-Fowler should be the top pair at that time with the next pair coming from some combination of Schultz/Vatanen/Mitera/Lind/Clark/Lydman/UFA.
If Lydman remains a top pairing shutdown guy there is no way on Earth he resigns at the same contract. He's being paid as a 3-4, and not particularly well.

Weiss will probably cost Schultz, and I don't know if Vatenen will have the size to play here (hoping he does).

My main comment was having your top wing and top 2 centers hit UFA the same year is probably not something a team wants any part of though.

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04-18-2011, 02:48 PM
  #39
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Snark:
Interesting thought on the percentage of busts, but is does ignore the strengths of individual scouting staffs. Looking at your list of busts, there's a lot of picks from Chicago, Edmonton, and Florida (for example), but not that many from San Jose or even Boston or Buffalo. It also ignores the strengths of any particular age group (witness '97 and '99).

I don't feel it can be equally said that 50% or even 30% of the prospects you identified will bust, but interesting nonetheless.
Also looking at that list a good 50% seemed to be drafted from outside of North America.

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Old
04-18-2011, 03:15 PM
  #40
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Tallon assembled the Cup winning Blackhawks. He sucks at cap management but he sure as hell isn't a moron (don't bring up Grabner, I have no explanation for that). Why would he give up his only marketable player for a low 1st, a negative value contract, and any prospect the Ducks would be willing to give up. The only way that trade works is for Holland AND Vatenen/Schultz in addition to the 1st and Blake, and Weiss isn't worth that IMO. Weiss also goes UFA the same year as Getzlaf, Perry, Visnovsky, and Lydman - fun year.
if he requires that package since Blake is included, then don't do it. Include Sutton in the deal instead of Blake. Sutton has some value while Blake has none. Plus, Florida needs defense as well. Good prospect, 1st, and Sutton could potentially get it done. Weiss still helps our depth out tremendously even if Blake is here.

RPG
BKS
Belesekey-Weiss-McMillan

that's much better then our curren position.

Tallon gave the Hawks a window for a cup run of one year. The Hossa signing was stupid and he put them in a position of cap hell for the upcoming years. They will be a 6-10 team for years relying on their stars and no depth to give them a chance. The only reason he isn't considered arguably the worst defenseman in the league is because his team managed to win the cup in the one year window they had. He's made a lot of bad moves as GM for the Panthers so far, according to them anyway. Off the top of my head, the frolik and Grabner moves were pretty awful. Even though Ballard hasn't done too well in Vancouver this year, I'd say he didn't do so hot in that deal either. A late 1st and a salary dump.

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Old
04-18-2011, 03:17 PM
  #41
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Screw not being able to edit on and iPhone...

Not worst defeseman, worst GM*.

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04-18-2011, 03:37 PM
  #42
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if he requires that package since Blake is included, then don't do it. Include Sutton in the deal instead of Blake. Sutton has some value while Blake has none. Plus, Florida needs defense as well. Good prospect, 1st, and Sutton could potentially get it done. Weiss still helps our depth out tremendously even if Blake is here.

RPG
BKS
Belesekey-Weiss-McMillan

that's much better then our curren position.

Tallon gave the Hawks a window for a cup run of one year. The Hossa signing was stupid and he put them in a position of cap hell for the upcoming years. They will be a 6-10 team for years relying on their stars and no depth to give them a chance. The only reason he isn't considered arguably the worst defenseman in the league is because his team managed to win the cup in the one year window they had. He's made a lot of bad moves as GM for the Panthers so far, according to them anyway. Off the top of my head, the frolik and Grabner moves were pretty awful. Even though Ballard hasn't done too well in Vancouver this year, I'd say he didn't do so hot in that deal either. A late 1st and a salary dump.
So, in other words, Tallon did to the Blackhawks what Burke did to the Ducks?

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04-18-2011, 04:13 PM
  #43
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If this series keeps going the way it is now, next year we're going to need to look at upgrading our D (particularly the top pairing, as impossible as it sounds). I think Visnovsky is awesome but it's clear he's not cut out to be the number one guy in big situations (hence why he won't get nominated for the Norris, despite his stellar offensive year). Our D is making a very mediocre group look awesome offensively right now.

Depth up front is also incredibly important. We need a second line centre and maybe another decent bottom 6er. Getting rid of Blake and Sutton would be huge in terms of freeing up space to put together a contending roster. We've got two more years after this of having Getzlaf, Perry & Fowler on ridiculously good contracts, we need to make the most of those two years.

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04-18-2011, 04:44 PM
  #44
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So, in other words, Tallon did to the Blackhawks what Burke did to the Ducks?
Burke did suck cap management wise but you could argue that Niedermayer and Selanne added big time to that problem with their coming back midseason. Burke definitely sucked it up with the bertuzzi signing and Mcdonald trade, but there's a big difference in what he and tallon did. We were stuck right up against the cap, but we weren't stuck there for years like Chicago is going to be. Big difference.

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04-18-2011, 04:50 PM
  #45
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Burke did suck cap management wise but you could argue that Niedermayer and Selanne added big time to that problem with their coming back midseason. Burke definitely sucked it up with the bertuzzi signing and Mcdonald trade, but there's a big difference in what he and tallon did. We were stuck right up against the cap, but we weren't stuck there for years like Chicago is going to be. Big difference.
That's only due to Murray cleaning out all the contracts. Which took 2 years. And the team is still borderline. If Giguere and Pronger were still about this team would have all the same problems.

Both teams sold out for a cup run. Ducks are still paying for it, Chicago will be paying for years as well.

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04-18-2011, 05:00 PM
  #46
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That's only due to Murray cleaning out all the contracts. Which took 2 years. And the team is still borderline. If Giguere and Pronger were still about this team would have all the same problems.

Both teams sold out for a cup run. Ducks are still paying for it, Chicago will be paying for years as well.
Like I said, Burke did suck at cap management. I do think the scenario with Nieds and Selanne put him in a difficult spot, but he did suck. Murray did have to clean up some of his mistakes, but Burke didn't hurt us as much as Tallon hurt the Hawks. Chicago may have to move Sharp just to dress a team. Tallon also had the luxury of putting a big contract in the minors with Huets move, something no Duck GM can do. Imagine how much worse Chicago would be if Huet was still counting against their cap. Burke made some bad cap moves, but no where near to the extent that Tallon did.

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04-18-2011, 05:04 PM
  #47
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Like I said, Burke did suck at cap management. I do think the scenario with Nieds and Selanne put him in a difficult spot, but he did suck. Murray did have to clean up some of his mistakes, but Burke didn't hurt us as much as Tallon hurt the Hawks. Chicago may have to move Sharp just to dress a team. Tallon also had the luxury of putting a big contract in the minors with Huets move, something no Duck GM can do. Imagine how much worse Chicago would be if Huet was still counting against their cap. Burke made some bad cap moves, but no where near to the extent that Tallon did.
True. Keep in mind Chicago was a doormat, however and had to overpay to get Brian Campbell (the top free agent D the year they signed him) and Huet because the team was so bad, and I'd argue that without Campbell they don't win the Cup last year. Not everyone gets the luxury of getting a HOF defenseman at below market value because they employ his brother

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04-18-2011, 05:48 PM
  #48
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True. Keep in mind Chicago was a doormat, however and had to overpay to get Brian Campbell (the top free agent D the year they signed him) and Huet because the team was so bad, and I'd argue that without Campbell they don't win the Cup last year. Not everyone gets the luxury of getting a HOF defenseman at below market value because they employ his brother
I don't think they win with out Campbell either. Still though I didn't see Burke handicapping us even more by signing a player to a long term contract when we were already in cap trouble, which is exactly what Tallon did. Burke sucked at cap management, but he did a way better job then Tallon did, despite not having the same luxury of putting a large contract in the minors.

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04-18-2011, 07:25 PM
  #49
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That's only due to Murray cleaning out all the contracts. Which took 2 years. And the team is still borderline. If Giguere and Pronger were still about this team would have all the same problems.

Both teams sold out for a cup run. Ducks are still paying for it, Chicago will be paying for years as well.
What problem is that, stomping Nashville into the ground? But, if we did still have Pronger, we wouldnt have been able to add any offensive depth which was our problem in 2009.

Just bustin your balls. I always hated moving pronger though. But seriously, how did we move Pronger to add depth and end up with no depth?

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04-18-2011, 08:07 PM
  #50
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Burke didn't need to throw contracts at his former Canuck buddies. There were more reasonable players/contracts out there. Bertuzzi was coming off his huge injury and wasn't worth the gamble. We didn't have a second line center until Koivu signed in 2009 and we didn't have center depth until McMillan this year came into the picture.

I can't believe we had McDonald, Getzlaf, Pahlsson and Marchant as our centers at one point...

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