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No Calder for Subban

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Old
04-19-2011, 12:37 PM
  #1
Quarantesix
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No Calder for Subban

Logan Couture
Jeff Skinner
Michael Grabner

are the the finalists

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=560231

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Old
04-19-2011, 12:38 PM
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RE-HABS
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Not a surprise, we all knew it would be the 30 goal scorer club.

If Subban had more points in the first half I think he knocks Grabner out.

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04-19-2011, 12:43 PM
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Bill McNeal
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Expected, and I don't think he deserved it based on an amazing half-season.

That being said, I wouldn't trade him for any of the nominees.

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04-19-2011, 12:43 PM
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Subban is probably in the top 10.

But those 3 clearly deserved it.

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04-19-2011, 12:44 PM
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Le Tricolore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogurt View Post
Expected, and I don't think he deserved it based on an amazing half-season.

That being said, I wouldn't trade him for any of the nominees.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

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04-19-2011, 12:50 PM
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RE-HABS
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I think those players are deserving, but I really think that the voters over look the time played and situations a Subban and Carlson play. These two play PP and PK, they check the other teams top forwards and are playing in a much harder position to come into the NHL as a full-time player.

They will be all rookie team guys on D.

And top players that played like Gretzky, Messier, Yzerman and more recently Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Crosby never won the award, and all have done quite well for themselves.

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04-19-2011, 12:55 PM
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Grabner over Subban is why I know the media has more than a say in these awards.

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04-19-2011, 12:59 PM
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meh. I don't care much. He'll outshine them all in the long run. First things first -- get down to business as usual....for real. People can't ignore you in the playoffs. I'm confident all the hatas are gonna hate even more, which should have its own coveted trophy.

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04-19-2011, 01:01 PM
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Whitesnake
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Great. We didn't need 1 more reason for a high salary soon..... Besides, all 3 nominees make sense.

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04-19-2011, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogurt View Post
Expected, and I don't think he deserved it based on an amazing half-season.

That being said, I wouldn't trade him for any of the nominees.
Exactly. Nor Carlson.

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04-19-2011, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogurt View Post
Expected, and I don't think he deserved it based on an amazing half-season.

That being said, I wouldn't trade him for any of the nominees.
/thread

Accurate statement based on probably what 80% of us are already thinking.

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04-19-2011, 01:10 PM
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Jack Bourdain
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Not surprised, this was a really strong rookie class. A lot of rooks deserve an honorable mention (Crawford, Carlson, Subby Doo, Marchand, Shattenkirk, Reimer etc.).


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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Exactly. Nor Carlson.
Carlson is pretty beast. I love Subban but I wouldn't mind having any. They're both #1D IMO (if not now, in a couple of years).

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Old
04-19-2011, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogurt View Post
Expected, and I don't think he deserved it based on an amazing half-season.

That being said, I wouldn't trade him for any of the nominees.
Exactly what I was going to say. Dude has been lights out most of the second half but his up and down start to the season killed his chances. Guess he will just have to win a Norris down the road!

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04-19-2011, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plante View Post
Grabner over Subban is why I know the media has more than a say in these awards.
Well yes, the writers are the ones who vote...

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Old
04-19-2011, 01:22 PM
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Regardless of his nomination, or not, Subban would never beat Skinner. You can make some case that he should finish top 3, but all the guys voted are deserving. It'll keep him that much hungrier for something bigger, methinks.

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04-19-2011, 01:26 PM
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Some of you don't want trade Subban for those 3 players, because you're so biased.
I'd take Skinner (3 years younger !!!) and Couture before Subban.

Go to the main HF board, and try the survey Skinner vs Subban. I think the results will be 70% for Skinner, even though there are much more Habs fan than Hurricanes.

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04-19-2011, 01:26 PM
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Whatever, he's getting the Norris anyway.


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Old
04-19-2011, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InglewoodJack View Post
Regardless of his nomination, or not, Subban would never beat Skinner. You can make some case that he should finish top 3, but all the guys voted are deserving. It'll keep him that much hungrier for something bigger, methinks.
Yeah and look at Grabner's team. Look at Skinner's team. Subban had a much better team than Grabner's. One could argue Subban's team was slightly better than Carolina thankfully because we had Subban, but one could just as easily argue Carolina would be a lottery pick drafter if they didn't have Skinner!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Some of you don't want trade Subban for those 3 players, because you're so biased.
I'd take Skinner (3 years younger !!!) and Couture before Subban.

Go to the main HF board, and try the survey Skinner vs Subban. I think the results will be 70% for Skinner, even though there are much more Habs fan than Hurricanes.
Great young offensive players aren't a dime a dozen don't get me wrong. But solid defensive young players with huge offensive upside are definitely a lot more rare. That isn't to take away from all that Skinner and company has accomplished, but bare in mind also D take more time to develop typically. Neither player has reached his ceiling but it wouldn't be wrong to say that PK could potentially be further away from reaching that ceiling than Skinner is. I would never trade a guy like PK.

While Skinner could turn out to be a 100pt guy, I think his production right now is around where he will remain. PK is a guy I could see improving his offense greatly and his D just keeps improving. I wouldn't sell either of them short but I do think PK could potentially have the higher ceiling, he just isn't as close to his as Skinner currently is. Like I said, D often take longer to develop.


Last edited by neofury*: 04-19-2011 at 01:32 PM.
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Old
04-19-2011, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Some of you don't want trade Subban for those 3 players, because you're so biased.
I'd take Skinner (3 years younger !!!) and Couture before Subban.

Go to the main HF board, and try the survey Skinner vs Subban. I think the results will be 70% for Skinner, even though there are much more Habs fan than Hurricanes.
Too bad Skinner can't play D? Can Skinner be 1D? I didn't know, that's great, I'll take him then.

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04-19-2011, 01:32 PM
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Obviously, this league has no idea how to judge a d-man to a forward, they have no idea of the complexity and the difficulty of the defensive postion when in PK's case, he had to take over Markov and Gorges absences and Spacek later on. Everybody would agree that as a freakin rookie, the guy ended a #1 d-man ON A TEAM THAT EVENTUALLY MADE THE PLAYOFFS.

Not Skinner nor Grabner's fault, and in Skinner's case it's tough to debate it, but they didn't make the playoffs. And especially in Grabner's case....isn't it a little easier to play a guy when you don't make the playoffs? Where's the pressure? While Subban had all the pressure in the world.

Anyway, it is the NHL. When a defenceman award will often if not always be given to a d-man with top 5 stats. When you can maybe finish 10th but could be the best defensive d-man in the game. So since the league can't respect that, as much as they need a defensive forward award, they'll need a defensive d-man one too....

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Old
04-19-2011, 01:34 PM
  #21
Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Some of you don't want trade Subban for those 3 players, because you're so biased.
I'd take Skinner (3 years younger !!!) and Couture before Subban.

Go to the main HF board, and try the survey Skinner vs Subban. I think the results will be 70% for Skinner, even though there are much more Habs fan than Hurricanes.
You do know that the main HF board is actually filled with the most Habs haters in both countries? You also know that Subban is, the most hated player in this board as well do you?

Of course, they'll take Skinner over Subban....You don't think there's any bias over there?

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Old
04-19-2011, 01:34 PM
  #22
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He'll get an HM with Fowler and Carlson for rookie Ds. Doesn't deserve any better tbh.
And right now, he needs to get back to the "All Business" mentality that he was faking.

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Old
04-19-2011, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Obviously, this league has no idea how to judge a d-man to a forward, they have no idea of the complexity and the difficulty of the defensive postion when in PK's case, he had to take over Markov and Gorges absences and Spacek later on. Everybody would agree that as a freakin rookie, the guy ended a #1 d-man ON A TEAM THAT EVENTUALLY MADE THE PLAYOFFS.

Not Skinner nor Grabner's fault, and in Skinner's case it's tough to debate it, but they didn't make the playoffs. And especially in Grabner's case....isn't it a little easier to play a guy when you don't make the playoffs? Where's the pressure? While Subban had all the pressure in the world.

Anyway, it is the NHL. When a defenceman award will often if not always be given to a d-man with top 5 stats. When you can maybe finish 10th but could be the best defensive d-man in the game. So since the league can't respect that, as much as they need a defensive forward award, they'll need a defensive d-man one too....
Oh please. Subban played a great second half. 40 games doesn't make a season though. We know what Subban is capable of and that's what we should remember. There were many deserving rookies this year, Subban not getting a nomination doesn't mean the voters thought he sucked. Fans should be more concerned about him helping the team win, not about him winning some random award.

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Old
04-19-2011, 01:41 PM
  #24
tinyzombies
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
Not surprised, this was a really strong rookie class. A lot of rooks deserve an honorable mention (Crawford, Carlson, Subby Doo, Marchand, Shattenkirk, Reimer etc.).




Carlson is pretty beast. I love Subban but I wouldn't mind having any. They're both #1D IMO (if not now, in a couple of years).
I agree, but I like the way Subban carries the puck. He does everything well. And he's a primo #1 agitator. Not so sure about Carlson's footwork. Might limit his offense.

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Old
04-19-2011, 01:41 PM
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Bill McNeal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Some of you don't want trade Subban for those 3 players, because you're so biased.
I'd take Skinner (3 years younger !!!) and Couture before Subban.

Go to the main HF board, and try the survey Skinner vs Subban. I think the results will be 70% for Skinner, even though there are much more Habs fan than Hurricanes.
I don't care what the general HF consensus is, I can make up my own mind based on what I've seen.

Skinner would be close, and I can see why Canes fans wouldn't trade him for PK either. The devil you know, and all that. They're enamored with their guy, we're enamored with ours.

But in Subban we have a 21 year old d-man who has shown a steady upward progression in pretty much every season of his career, both pro and amateur. He's already arguably a #1 defenseman on a playoff team who can play 27 minutes a night, run a powerplay (to a certain degree, still needs works) and eat up a ton of penalty killing minutes.

He's basically right on track to become an elite, #1 puck-moving defenseman. And unless I'm getting a franchise center in return, why would I move that?

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