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No Calder for Subban

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Old
04-19-2011, 12:42 PM
  #26
Lucius
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League awards always skew to scorers and those three guys had great years, no complaints on the nominations.

You could also easily argue that John Carlson was the bigger snub. I'm a huge Subban fan and wouldn't trade him for any of the above, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve the Calder trophy more.

Crosby didn't even win the Calder, I'd point out. It's no big deal.

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Old
04-19-2011, 12:43 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Frogurt View Post
I don't care what the general HF consensus is, I can make up my own mind based on what I've seen.

Skinner would be close, and I can see why Canes fans wouldn't trade him for PK either. The devil you know, and all that. They're enamored with their guy, we're enamored with ours.

But in Subban we have a 21 year old d-man who has shown a steady upward progression in pretty much every season of his career, both pro and amateur. He's already arguably a #1 defenseman on a playoff team who can play 27 minutes a night, run a powerplay (to a certain degree, still needs works) and eat up a ton of penalty killing minutes.

He's basically right on track to become an elite, #1 puck-moving defenseman. And unless I'm getting a franchise center in return, why would I move that?
Elite puck carrier too, not just moving.

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04-19-2011, 12:43 PM
  #28
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Subban has become a #1 D that is more important defensively than offensively (even though he's still a great offensive threat). Imo, that's more important to a team than any of the other 3.

However, for the Calder run anything that doesn't show up in stats will not be considered or nearly.

The offensive production of a rookie on a losing team will always be better than on a winning team or nearly because they can get used profusely, they're out of it anyway, and they can take chances because if they get scored against by missing their chance, who cares? Look at how Kaberle was great in Toronto on a losing team cause he could make passes from his zone to the other team's blue line where his teammates were waiting. Has a much harder time doing this when his team actually plays defensively and doesn't have guys waiting for passes all over the rink (but leaving gaping holes all over their defensive zone).

No matter what though, Skinner was my pick for the Calder, this kid's amazing.

I think Frogurt said it best though. Choices are valid, even though I think Subban deserved the nomination more than Grabner. But a 21 y.o. #1D with huge offensive upside to me is worth a whole lot more than any forward not named Crosby (or nearly...). Subban might never get as nice looking stats as some of the other guys, but he makes his team win. He took over a #1D position as a rookie on a playoff team. None of the other kids actually achieved anything nearly as important in terms of contributing to the success of their team.

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04-19-2011, 12:51 PM
  #29
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Not that it really matters, I think it's quite obvious Skinner is going to win. I still feel that either Carlson or Subban should have at least been a nominee. I don't think aside from skinner any other rookies had as big an impact on their teams as those three.

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Old
04-19-2011, 01:08 PM
  #30
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This exemplifies exactly what is wrong with awards in the NHL. The most important thing in the NHL are the Playoffs. The games that matter most are happening right now. When you look at great performances you remember playoff games rather than regular season. The Awards should take into accoun the playoffs. An individual having a great season means squat to me if the team misses the playoffs. A goalie winning a vezina but going out in the first round is a farce. A norris D not seeing round 2 is weak! (not refering to this season but history as a whole). To me the guys who play the best all season and then shine in the playoffs deserve it more than guys out playing golf already.

Awards to me are a joke. always have been.

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Old
04-19-2011, 01:18 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevil View Post
This exemplifies exactly what is wrong with awards in the NHL. The most important thing in the NHL are the Playoffs. The games that matter most are happening right now. When you look at great performances you remember playoff games rather than regular season. The Awards should take into accoun the playoffs. An individual having a great season means squat to me if the team misses the playoffs. A goalie winning a vezina but going out in the first round is a farce. A norris D not seeing round 2 is weak! (not refering to this season but history as a whole). To me the guys who play the best all season and then shine in the playoffs deserve it more than guys out playing golf already.

Awards to me are a joke. always have been.


They're REGULAR SEASON awards.

That's like saying the problem with apples is that they're not oranges.

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Old
04-19-2011, 01:23 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post


They're REGULAR SEASON awards.

That's like saying the problem with apples is that they're not oranges.
Pretty much...

I mean, if a rookie scored 50 goals but was on the Leafs (poor guy!), and thus never made the playoffs, should he be out of the Calder race...?

Hockey is a team game, individual awards will always only mean so much.

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Old
04-19-2011, 01:35 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post


They're REGULAR SEASON awards.

That's like saying the problem with apples is that they're not oranges.
I know they are regular season awards, but meh who cares who was great all season. To me it should be both. All year.

Imagine.. Tim Thomas wins Vezina. then lets in 5 weak goals in first few games and loses in the first round. Did it matter how good he was all season. I think it should reflect the entire performance.

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Old
04-19-2011, 01:36 PM
  #34
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I wouldn't trade Subban for anybody.

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Old
04-19-2011, 01:37 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Quarantesix View Post
Logan Couture
Jeff Skinner
Michael Grabner

are the the finalists

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=560231
Not a big shocker, it's always heavily favored the forwards.

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Old
04-19-2011, 01:38 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Frogurt View Post
Expected, and I don't think he deserved it based on an amazing half-season.

That being said, I wouldn't trade him for any of the nominees.
That didn't stop Grabner from being nominated. He only really started playing great in mid-January.

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Old
04-19-2011, 01:43 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by sevil View Post
I know they are regular season awards, but meh who cares who was great all season. To me it should be both. All year.

Imagine.. Tim Thomas wins Vezina. then lets in 5 weak goals in first few games and loses in the first round. Did it matter how good he was all season. I think it should reflect the entire performance.
Timmy Thomas isn't done yet.

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Old
04-19-2011, 01:46 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Timmy Thomas isn't done yet.
never said he was. but IF that happened A vezina wouldn't mean much to him either.

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Old
04-19-2011, 01:50 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevil View Post
Imagine.. Tim Thomas wins Vezina. then lets in 5 weak goals in first few games and loses in the first round. Did it matter how good he was all season. I think it should reflect the entire performance.
Thats why they save the Stanley Cup trophy for the real season.

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Old
04-19-2011, 01:51 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Kezia View Post
That didn't stop Grabner from being nominated. He only really started playing great in mid-January.
Doesn't deserve a Calder, but a Masterton. Read his story. It really shows he has a lot of passion and has persevered a boatload of hurdles.

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Old
04-19-2011, 01:51 PM
  #41
Lucius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevil View Post
I know they are regular season awards, but meh who cares who was great all season. To me it should be both. All year.

Imagine.. Tim Thomas wins Vezina. then lets in 5 weak goals in first few games and loses in the first round. Did it matter how good he was all season. I think it should reflect the entire performance.
...so where do you stop? What if Tim Thomas wins a Vezina, then loses his job the next season? Should we take that award away too? Oh wait...

If Tim Thomas wins the Vezina, then chokes in the playoffs it means he won't win the Conn Smythe, which is why God invented playoff awards.

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Old
04-19-2011, 03:34 PM
  #42
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Tough break given a d-man won last year. Can't see the award being given to a
d-man two years in a row.

I'm okay with the finalists too but PK certainly would have been a legit nomination. Just win the Stanley Cup PK and a few other things along the way.

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Old
04-19-2011, 03:37 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Yeah and look at Grabner's team. Look at Skinner's team. Subban had a much better team than Grabner's. One could argue Subban's team was slightly better than Carolina thankfully because we had Subban, but one could just as easily argue Carolina would be a lottery pick drafter if they didn't have Skinner!
I don't know what you're trying to say to me

But yeah, all three are good picks, and if Subban would've replaced Grabner or Couture, it would be okay too. I really think Skinner has this one.

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Old
04-19-2011, 03:52 PM
  #44
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Grabner over Subban is why I know the media has more than a say in these awards.
he was tied for 5th in the league in ES goals, that's impressive.

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Old
04-19-2011, 04:40 PM
  #45
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Nice, will be a bit less expensive to resign.

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Old
04-19-2011, 04:57 PM
  #46
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Le troll became Le troller

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Old
04-19-2011, 05:31 PM
  #47
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Awards:
Those three deserve their nominations. Congrats to Grabner, Skinner and Couture.

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Old
04-19-2011, 06:48 PM
  #48
Born in 1909
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Forget the Calder.

Its Skinner's anyway...

How about a Game 4 PP goal or two?

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Old
04-19-2011, 06:51 PM
  #49
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Why even nominate Couture and Grabner...neither have a chance at winning it.

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Old
04-19-2011, 07:24 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
Why even nominate Couture and Grabner...neither have a chance at winning it.
There are no nominations.

The "nominated" players are the ones who finished top 3 in voting. The league announces the "nominations" to keep the suspense alive until the awards ceremony.

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