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Old
04-19-2011, 02:10 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by SouvenirCity View Post
There's wayyyyyyyy too much Zucc love on these boards. Dude looked lost in Game 1, yet some believe he should be on the second line, and starting over Christensen? Gimme a break. We don't need another guy who with the right breeze gets knocked off the puck.

OK let's say Zuc looked lost(although I would disagree on that) in his FIRST EVER NHL PLAYOFF GAME, does that mean he should be scratched in favor of Christensen the guy who looks lost his entire career? Is this how you develop good skilled rookies?

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04-19-2011, 02:13 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Rangers44 View Post
again in game 2 he was on ice for all goals against, he also doesn't hit anyone.
He was not at fault on the Chimera goal and no one was at fault on the Arnott PP goal. Eminger is done as a Ranger. Hurts doesn't it. That's all this is about for you. And I like Eminger except when you are whining and pining for and about him.

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04-19-2011, 02:17 PM
  #128
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To play devil's advocate (and because I think Eminger is much better than Gilroy)- what has Gilroy done to warrant being in the lineup over Eminger?
That's a question for Torts. But my opinion is he has defended better (with less physicality), has moved the puck out of the zone more efficiently and from time to time has chipped in on the offense. Eminger hasn't been bad but he has been inconsistent and frantic in his play. And at this time of year, there is no room for that.

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04-19-2011, 02:23 PM
  #129
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just give my 2 cents on some of the posts.

I saw Strudwick play the other day in Calgary and he is slow as molasses so please don't bring that one up again.

Gilroy will sign and stay, that is if his ambitions is in line with his ability.

Better the devils you know than the devil you don't.....lest we forget Redden experiment.

He is certainly worth a million bucks which I believe would be the upper limit of the Rangers offer. The guy is in the line up because he gives Torts what he wants, and he knows the system adn he can improve. Parachuting another guy is always a lottery, especially defensively.

I think some people forget that you can just get another guy in order to save 100 grand in salary.

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04-19-2011, 02:24 PM
  #130
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Gilroy was out there because McD was in the box. Funny, though, how Gilroy gets blamed for letting up the PP goal when there were 4 other players on the ice and McD who took the bad penalty in the first place. Nevermind that we didn't score any goals either.

The bottom line is this. We have played 3 playoff games and Gilroy has been in the lineup over Eminger for every one of them. So whatever people see, or think they see, it isn't the same thing Torts sees, apparently.

Would I like someone better than Gilroy? Of course. But that doesn't make re-signing him a mistake. Just because he signs a contract, it doesn't mean he'll even be on the team. Some people are seriously overreacting.
For once I could agree with you. Ive been more impressed by Gilroy in this series then most of his career. I think there are much better options but there are also much worse.

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04-19-2011, 02:27 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
He was not at fault on the Chimera goal and no one was at fault on the Arnott PP goal. Eminger is done as a Ranger. Hurts doesn't it. That's all this is about for you. And I like Eminger except when you are whining and pining for and about him.
On Chimera's goal Gilroy is skating around too far from the net, doesn't get to Laich fast enough Laich is able to move the puck from behind the net, while Gilroy again doesn't get back up to position and goal is scored right on his left side where he should have been defending.

On Arnott goal he again skated away from the net for some dumb reason trying to block a bad angle shot (I don't think I ever seen a defenseman attempt a stupid move like that) his stick deflected the chot right on Arnott's stick.

Watch the replays closely if you don't (and I know you don't) believe me.



The guy singlehandedly cost us game 2.


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04-19-2011, 02:31 PM
  #132
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just give my 2 cents on some of the posts.

I saw Strudwick play the other day in Calgary and he is slow as molasses so please don't bring that one up again.

Gilroy will sign and stay, that is if his ambitions is in line with his ability.

Better the devils you know than the devil you don't.....lest we forget Redden experiment.

He is certainly worth a million bucks which I believe would be the upper limit of the Rangers offer. The guy is in the line up because he gives Torts what he wants, and he knows the system adn he can improve. Parachuting another guy is always a lottery, especially defensively.

I think some people forget that you can just get another guy in order to save 100 grand in salary.
Strudwick is 36 now, but 6 years ago, he was better defenseman than Gilroy.

What makes Gilroy worth a million? If I was Sather I would demand my money back from him.

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04-19-2011, 02:40 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Rangers44 View Post
On Chimera's goal Gilroy is skating around too far from the net, doesn't get to Laich fast enough Laich is able to move the puck from behind the net, while Gilroy again doesn't get back up to position and goal is scored right on his left side where he should have been defending.

On Arnott goal he again skated away from the net for some dumb reason trying to block a bad angle shot (I don't think I ever seen a defenseman attempt a stupid move like that) his stick deflected the chot right on Arnott's stick.

Watch the replays closely if you don't (and I know you don't) believe me.


The guy singlehandedly cost us game 2.
That was the game we were shutout, right? What were you saying in the other thread about logical fallacies?

Anyway, Gilroy sucks. He has shown periods of somewhat competent play, but isn't nearly consistent enough. His defense is marginal and he's yet to contribute anything at all offensively. I'd much rather have Eminger as the sixth or seventh defenseman than Gilroy. However, the coaching staff seems to have faith in Gilroy's ability. I guess that's worth something.

Hopefully, we'll find better players between now and the start of next season, and we can simply bury Gilroy in Connectiford.

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04-19-2011, 02:41 PM
  #134
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People need to remember one thing when it comes to V-Tank.

No matter how many very good plays a D makes, he is never better then the "gap-controll" (I love that word, just learned it recently) he exhibits.

There is a big difference in the game today in this regard compared to say 15-20 years ago. D's used to give forward time and forward used to give D's time. You saw much more clean 1 on 1 battles. Today D's stay at a certain distance from a forward, really only pressures the forward when he shoots the puck. We have seen it hundreds of times with players like JJ or Gabby going up against a D who just skates into their own net almost, but then when they snip the puck, the D's step up and trys to block it. Before the D's stepped up on the forwads much earlier, and could either take him down or get beaten clean 1 on 1. How do you beat a D 1 on 1 that's always 6-9 feets away from you?

In this regard, V-Tank is still unpolished. He is a mobile skater and he is a good hitter and he is a good shot-blocker. But he is a much more tenacious D then Torts likes, or most (all?) other coaches in this league likes nowadays. Sure, nobody minds a hit. But a D must be really good at keeping that distance from the forward, and thightening the space. The D should at all times be so far from the forward that the forward can't accelerate and skate around him, but he should always be so close that he can go down and block a shot effectively.

Forwards in the game today, like the Sedins, like Bäckstörm, like Towes, they are fantastic at taking advantage of ice if they get it. They aren't magic stickhandlers like JJ, Kovalev and co, but give them a bit of open ice, and they will take advantage of it extremely well.
Good points mentioned but i do think a guy like V-tank can learn that system and not only that when given the free space to go make a hit or create a play will prob do it with more energy and tenacious play than Gilroy brings. I think V-tank will offer more of a complete game than Eminger also in terms of skating and agility.

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04-19-2011, 02:44 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
That was the game we were shutout, right? What were you saying in the other thread about logical fallacies?

Anyway, Gilroy sucks. He has shown periods of somewhat competent play, but isn't nearly consistent enough. His defense is marginal and he's yet to contribute anything at all offensively. I'd much rather have Eminger as the sixth or seventh defenseman than Gilroy. However, the coaching staff seems to have faith in Gilroy's ability. I guess that's worth something.

Hopefully, we'll find better players between now and the start of next season, and we can simply bury Gilroy in Connectiford.
without Gilroy's help it would have been a 0-0 tie and could have gone either way, there is no fallacy he did us in with his idiotic defense and the stupid coach didn't even scratch him, and the stupid GM is now offering him a multi year contract.

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04-19-2011, 02:47 PM
  #136
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as long he signs on with a very tradeable contract. worse comes to worse, we send him down and someone claims him off of waivers.

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04-19-2011, 02:54 PM
  #137
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I would much rather have MDZ and Valetenko fighting it out for the 3rd pairing defencemen and get a UFA to play bottom pairing with them.

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04-19-2011, 02:56 PM
  #138
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without Gilroy's help it would have been a 0-0 tie and could have gone either way, there is no fallacy he did us in with his idiotic defense and the stupid coach didn't even scratch him, and the stupid GM is now offering him a multi year contract.
Grasping at straws again. I don't like Gilroy on defense myself, but, if you're going to blame someone for game two, you blame the entire offense. Yes, Gilroy is supposed to bring offense to the table, and he did that in game one, you know, the only goal the team scored before game three. He's been fine in the playoffs. I don't like that he isn't physical, but, not every player is. He's a 3rd pairing defender. Your expectations are too high for him.

If you don't score, you can't win the game. It's that simple. Even if you shutout a team in regulation in that game, you cannot win if you don't score. Zero goals = zero chance. There is no fallacy that the team offense did us in that game.

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04-19-2011, 03:00 PM
  #139
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Grasping at straws again. I don't like Gilroy on defense myself, but, if you're going to blame someone for game two, you blame the entire offense. Yes, Gilroy is supposed to bring offense to the table, and he did that in game one, you know, the only goal the team scored before game three. He's been fine in the playoffs. I don't like that he isn't physical, but, not every player is. He's a 3rd pairing defender. Your expectations are too high for him.

If you don't score, you can't win the game. It's that simple. Even if you shutout a team in regulation in that game, you cannot win if you don't score. Zero goals = zero chance. There is no fallacy that the team offense did us in that game.
Well if not for Gilroy the Caps possibly wouldn't have scored either that game.

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04-19-2011, 03:04 PM
  #140
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I would much rather have MDZ and Valetenko fighting it out for the 3rd pairing defencemen and get a UFA to play bottom pairing with them.
What other UFA's are on the market that would be a substantial upgrade over Gilroy as a 6th/7th d-man?

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04-19-2011, 03:04 PM
  #141
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right now he's a 5th defenseman on a playoff team that is battling the #1 seed. Temper the hate, open your eyes and recognize the progress he's made.
I'm not sure what your point is. If the Rangers are in the playoffs, it's in spite of the fact that they have horrible players like Gilroy in the lineup, not because of them. And being the worst playoff team in a league where more than half of the teams make the playoffs isn't exactly a major accomplishment.

Whatever progress Gilroy has made, and he has made some, it isn't nearly enough to turn him into a competent defenseman. He's absolutely terrible in his own zone, and for an offensive defenseman, he contributes precious little offensively. He's terrible on the PP.

The funniest part is that he isn't in the lineup because he's done anything to deserve it. He's in the lineup because this team has one of the saddest collections of offensive talent as far as forwards go in the NHL. There's no chance he'd be playing if Callahan wasn't hurt.

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04-19-2011, 03:10 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Rangers44 View Post
without Gilroy's help it would have been a 0-0 tie and could have gone either way, there is no fallacy he did us in with his idiotic defense and the stupid coach didn't even scratch him, and the stupid GM is now offering him a multi year contract.
Okay, but saying "Had Gilroy not made a mistake, the game could have been 0-0 and up for grabs," is a far cry from "Gilroy single-handedly cost us the game." Do you not see the difference?

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04-19-2011, 03:24 PM
  #143
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Okay, but saying "Had Gilroy not made a mistake, the game could have been 0-0 and up for grabs," is a far cry from "Gilroy single-handedly cost us the game." Do you not see the difference?
you are really threading the needle with this one.

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04-19-2011, 03:25 PM
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What other UFA's are on the market that would be a substantial upgrade over Gilroy as a 6th/7th d-man?
http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=55297

51 points this season.

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04-19-2011, 03:29 PM
  #145
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you are really threading the needle with this one.
You are really letting your hate for Gilroy override any rational thought.

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04-19-2011, 03:29 PM
  #146
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I hope you're kidding. Wisniewski is not a 6th or 7th defenseman, and is obviously going to earn many millions more than Gilroy. If you're going to list Wisniewski, you may as well list Markov, Kaberle, and Pitkanen as other viable bottom pairing upgrades too.

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04-19-2011, 03:31 PM
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LOL. Wisniewski is not signing somewhere to be a 5th-6th defenseman, nor are the Rangers paying 4+ million per for a 3rd pair guy. Not if they want Richards.

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04-19-2011, 03:44 PM
  #148
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I hope you're kidding. Wisniewski is not a 6th or 7th defenseman, and is obviously going to earn many millions more than Gilroy. If you're going to list Wisniewski, you may as well list Markov, Kaberle, and Pitkanen as other viable bottom pairing upgrades too.
Don't really like Pitkanen and Kabarle, Markov is a question mark with his injuries. But yeah with McCabe gone, we need a real PP quarterback, even if it means we have to spend some money.

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04-19-2011, 03:46 PM
  #149
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you are really threading the needle with this one.
No, I'm really not. When you make an absurd, definitive statement that one player is solely responsible for us losing a game, then backtrack to "it could have been 0-0 and up for grabs," you leave yourself open to criticism.

Don't make such rash proclamations and I won't point out your contradictions.

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04-19-2011, 03:48 PM
  #150
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No, I'm really not. When you make an absurd, definitive statement that one player is solely responsible for us losing a game, then backtrack to "it could have been 0-0 and up for grabs," you leave yourself open to criticism.

Don't make such rash proclamations and I won't point out your contradictions.
Well seems like nobody else wants to notice/acknowledge that Gilroy was primarily responsible for those 2 goals.

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