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Logical/Non-emotional "What's wrong w/Penner?" discussion

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04-20-2011, 02:54 PM
  #1
Kingurentai
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Logical/Non-emotional "What's wrong w/Penner?" discussion

I went to bed angry and woke up angry. The thing most frustrating about Penner is that you know the talent is there. Anyway, was wondering is anyone was interested in discussing what's really wrong with Penner. I've read the Oiler's board and he has a lot of fans that back up his cred. The consensus from Oilfans (not just on hf) seems to be:

"Yeah he coasts at times but he produces. Also he's never been THIS BAD as he's been for you guys."


Something just isn't right and I don't think you can pass it off as "he just sucks".

Possibles:
1. Conditioning. I really don't think he's that out of shape. He needs more stamina, certainly, but I've seen him on some breakaways and seems the right speed for his size. Also, based on his current conditioning, I have no idea how he would last in Edmonton. How does he go from legit NHL'er playing minutes to suddenly a slow, useless, clown in months?

2. Not getting along with teammates? I thought he was "fitting right in", but something seems to have happened since Kopi got hurt. Did he say something in the lockerroom he shouldn't have? Also on the ice, I don't remember which game, but on the bench he seemed to make a gesture to Simmonds like, "Aww come on don't be mad at me bro". And Simmonds still seemed pissed off about something. Really pissed off at Penner. Not sure if the limo thing is just a rumor but that's a serious problem for an ice hockey team, if true. This isn't friggin boreball.

3. Issues at home. I'm not one that likes to get into the personal life of players. So I honestly do NOT care about any details. Let's leave details out. But something at home?

Anyway, something just ain't right.

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04-20-2011, 03:01 PM
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Sydor25
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04-20-2011, 03:02 PM
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04-20-2011, 03:03 PM
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The guy constantly looks depressed. Part of the reason I was thrilled he got a point yesterday.

I still have hope in him, I think he's an amazing talent and that he's just getting used to the system. I remember when the habs got Kovalev he sucked hard for a while before becoming their best player.

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04-20-2011, 03:03 PM
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kingsfan77
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Penner's shift are very short. I personally think that either he is hurt or his condition is very sub par. I cant imagine a player not having enough drive to want to try hard. He just seems very fatigued to me. If your tired in hockey you make the wrong plays. He has been making the wrong plays. His shifts are usually half as long as his line mates. Never seen anyone take such short shifts unless it was for line match up cases which this is not.

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04-20-2011, 03:03 PM
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04-20-2011, 03:05 PM
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MollerManor
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I have no logical insight in anything or any in-depth analysis about the subject... the only thing I notice and absolutely hate about him is he looks like he skates at 50% speed/effort all the time. I don't know if this is his 'style' or if something is in fact wrong, I just know that when I dont give a ****, I start slowing down, and when I have or am battling for the puck I try to get physical with the player first then to actually out-skate and maneuver around him and generate plays.

I am someone who will always take effort over skill, and why I always gave my props and love to Oscar/Richardson and why I have so much hatred for Penner right now.

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04-20-2011, 03:07 PM
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JT Dutch*
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... Penner looks to me like he's not conditioned well enough, and that's a team/training camp issue. He spent training camp with a team that knew they weren't going to the playoffs, and he likely did only what he was required to do. He's paying for that now.

Give him a full training camp and season with the Kings, and by the playoffs I think you'll see a different player.

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04-20-2011, 03:07 PM
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What's the limo rumor?

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04-20-2011, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... Penner looks to me like he's not conditioned well enough, and that's a team/training camp issue. He spent training camp with a team that knew they weren't going to the playoffs, and he likely did only what he was required to do. He's paying for that now.

Give him a full training camp and season with the Kings, and by the playoffs I think you'll see a different player.
I agree with this. He reminds me of Kopitar before his summer of super work out.

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04-20-2011, 03:10 PM
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Limo thing? Fill me in.....

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04-20-2011, 03:12 PM
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Kingurentai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan77 View Post
Penner's shift are very short. I personally think that either he is hurt or his condition is very sub par. I cant imagine a player not having enough drive to want to try hard. He just seems very fatigued to me. If your tired in hockey you make the wrong plays. He has been making the wrong plays. His shifts are usually half as long as his line mates. Never seen anyone take such short shifts unless it was for line match up cases which this is not.

I noticed that also. Must be annoying for his linemates as well. I do agree with you though that, "I cant imagine a player not having enough drive to want to try hard." I don't buy the whole, "He doesn't care" bit. Penner never did and never will look like John Tonelli on the ice. Noone expects that, but it's not even "slow"....it's more like "stop" as if he forgot how to skate at all.

Again, the conditioning thing doesn't make much sense though, because he was playing normal minutes in Edmonton. Yeah he's slower but can't possibly be this slow.

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04-20-2011, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLang View Post
Limo thing? Fill me in.....
Some TV director (for the games in SJ) twittered Penner took a limo alone instead of riding with his team mates in SJ.

*I personally don't believe it til I see it/hear it from more legit sources. Which is why I said, "IF true".

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04-20-2011, 03:15 PM
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TonySCV
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My money is on poor conditioning. He looked tired, and was making tired plays all night.

Thank you for starting this thread BTW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingurentai View Post
Some TV director (for the games in SJ) twittered Penner took a limo alone instead of riding with his team mates in SJ. *I personally don't believe it til I see it/hear it from more legit sources. Which is why I said, "IF true".
Certainly not a credible source. Player behavior rumors need links to credible sources.

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04-20-2011, 03:19 PM
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He just needs a buddy. He probably feels like an outsider. Somebody on the team has to bring him into the fold.

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04-20-2011, 03:20 PM
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SLang
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingurentai View Post
Some TV director (for the games in SJ) twittered Penner took a limo alone instead of riding with his team mates in SJ.

*I personally don't believe it til I see it/hear it from more legit sources. Which is why I said, "IF true".
Ah, ok. And if true, could be a legit reason......he wouldn't be the first King to miss a bus (cough *Drew* cough)......

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04-20-2011, 03:21 PM
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Kingurentai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
My money is on poor conditioning. He looked tired, and was making tired plays all night.

Thank you for starting this thread BTW.

I was surprised such a thread wasn't already up but I guess a lot was covered in the PGT.

I know a part of me simply doesn't want to accept conditioning as the sole reason (although it probably is), but I just don't get how he goes from "kinda on the slow side" to "zero" in a couple months.

He wasn't a hustler by any means, but he wasn't this bad when he got here.

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04-20-2011, 03:25 PM
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The guy doesn't move his feet, he looks lost all the time. He seems indecisive when trying to determine whether or not he should join the attack or go back on defense.

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04-20-2011, 03:26 PM
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Kingurentai
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
MCertainly not a credible source. Player behavior rumors need links to credible sources.
No prob which is why I put "If true" (I don't have it now but I got the link to it from the HF Oil board first, btw).

Then again, I've seen links to Eklund on here so I figured the tv director cameraman concession stand whatever guy was fair game

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04-20-2011, 03:30 PM
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I suppose conditioning could be an issue, but, man, I played hockey for a few years. It kicked my ass. And that was just lame local pick-up stuff. At the pro level, I can't imagine that between off-ice workouts, practice, and ice time during games that someone could NOT be conditioned at this point in the season! Coming INTO a new season, sure...but at this point?

I seem to want to keep making excuses for Penner, don't know why (I suppose it's that I want him, and by extension, the Kings, to succeed). Telling people things like "look at him, he's huge - he has to economise his on-ice effort so he's got something left at the end of the game - that's why he looks lazy" and "look, Penner was brought on board to be a finisher, not a creator...and when Kopitar/Williams went down he lost the two creators he was brought in to finish for".

I'm afraid I'm running out of excuses, which is why I was glad he got that assist last night. But his later performance in the game is kindling a thought in my little pea-brain that he's really a Duck through and through, sent here to wreak havoc on the Kings locker room.

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04-20-2011, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShattStar03 View Post
The guy doesn't move his feet, he looks lost all the time. He seems indecisive when trying to determine whether or not he should join the attack or go back on defense.
There's definitely an element of systems learning that he's still going through. He has looked lost out there from time to time. I think it's pretty evident that he's worried about being out of place defensively - so much so that it's impacting his offense. It's not at all different than what Kopitar went through as he was learning to become a better two way player.

Poor conditioning just exacerbates the problem.

I'm hopeful that the strength and conditioning coach will get him on a successful training regimen this off-season and he'll look much better next season.

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04-20-2011, 03:32 PM
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He just needs a buddy. He probably feels like an outsider. Somebody on the team has to bring him into the fold.
That is Brown, Greene and Stoll's job.

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04-20-2011, 03:46 PM
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Systematic.

Bigger, slower, players don't work in the system. Our centers are big and can track the play up the ice. Our forecheck requires speed from the wingers.

Our wingers are expected to go in like cannonballs and hit someone and get the puck.

By the time Poni, Penner, and Frolov get there the play is already by them.

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04-20-2011, 03:55 PM
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Yeah, I am in the poor conditioning camp as well. At least I hope that's what it is. If his attitude doesn't allow him to be a better player than he has been for the Kings then we have a real problem next season.

He needs to drop about 20 lbs. and get a lot quicker. When a forward can't out quick Douglas Murray to get to a 50/50 puck, it's a problem.

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04-20-2011, 03:55 PM
  #25
Kingurentai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
Systematic.

Bigger, slower, players don't work in the system. Our centers are big and can track the play up the ice. Our forecheck requires speed from the wingers.

Our wingers are expected to go in like cannonballs and hit someone and get the puck.

By the time Poni, Penner, and Frolov get there the play is already by them.
Agree with most of what you said but...

Poni?

I might be watching the wrong game but he's consistently been one of the guys that always hustles. Boneheaded plays/penalties too, but at least he hustles. Been ok defensively too,

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