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Logical/Non-emotional "What's wrong w/Penner?" discussion

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Old
04-20-2011, 06:15 PM
  #51
Johnny Utah
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Originally Posted by saintsnsoldiers View Post
I don't know abut that. I think our system has really stymied the scoring creativity of our players. Plus I thought TM said he was having a hard time picking up his player on the way back in to the zone. Didn't someone say that our offense was very positional or something to that fact. Our system does not allow for the creativity of the caliber of players we have. That said Penner does look like a slug out there. Non caring.
Well, we all know that...what experienced Kings player has had a career year under TM?

Williams has his two best years in Carolina, Smyth in Edmonton, Brown and O'Sullivan under Crawford. Kopitar stats are very close between the two coaches.

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Old
04-20-2011, 06:22 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
What's the limo rumor?
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Originally Posted by SLang View Post
Limo thing? Fill me in.....
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Originally Posted by Kingurentai View Post
Some TV director (for the games in SJ) twittered Penner took a limo alone instead of riding with his team mates in SJ.

*I personally don't believe it til I see it/hear it from more legit sources. Which is why I said, "IF true".
My brother and I waited outside the Sharks practice rink this last Friday to see the Kings get on their bus (the practice itself was closed to the public). When it was done, the first player out the door was Penner and instead of getting on the bus, they had a taxi waiting for him. The rest of the team trickled out over the next half hour and they all got on the bus. At the time, I didn't give it much thought since I'm sure players are allowed to make separate arrangements, but hearing the limo rumor, it now seems kind of odd.

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04-20-2011, 06:27 PM
  #53
Johnny Utah
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Well I don't know how much validation can be put in that.

My brother and I waited outside the Great Western Forum years back after a Kings-Leafs game by the top of the tunnel (security blocks fans from going down the tunnel). Most of the Leafs got onto the team bus except Domi and Kypreos, who hopped into a jeep and Doug Gilmour (who Kings fans hate), BUT he walked up the ramp and signed autographs for us and everyone else. He also chatted and took pictures with some Leafs fan and got into a taxi cab. I will never forget that and from then on I liked Doug Gilmour. He was very friendly, probably one of my fondest player encounters besides a few with McKenna, Parros, Brad Norton and Brad May.

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04-20-2011, 06:35 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by saintsnsoldiers View Post
I don't know abut that. I think our system has really stymied the scoring creativity of our players. Plus I thought TM said he was having a hard time picking up his player on the way back in to the zone. Didn't someone say that our offense was very positional or something to that fact. Our system does not allow for the creativity of the caliber of players we have. That said Penner does look like a slug out there. Non caring.
Which is the root of the problem. Its doesnt matter about the system when the player in question is known to have issues with his attitude and work ethic.

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04-20-2011, 06:35 PM
  #55
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When did Tuebert and the 1st become the saviors of the Kings? Last time I checked, Teubert was 5th or 6th on the defensive depth chart in Manchester. Forbert and Deslauriers are probably ahead of him too.

Kings don't need more 1st rounders at this point and Dean has been spectacular in the 2nd round.

Penner will be fine with Kopitar and Williams next season. It's a contract year and he will not have to play with Handzus. Penner needs speed at center to be effective. Penner-Lewis-Brown is a line I would like to see, but Murray won't try it.
Asset Management 101

An organization has limited useful assets to improve their current or future position.

Show me a team that wastes those assets and I'll show you a team that is struggling.

The Penner trade - so far - looks like a huge waste of 3 assets (Teubert and 2 picks) that could have been used more profitably elsewhere. The fact that you don't "think" that Teubert or the picks have value doesn't change the reality that they do.

Penner will almost certainly NOT be in the Kings organization to start the 2012-2013 season for the reasons I detailed in a previous post. Giving up the assets the Kings surrended was a tragic misuse of limited assets.

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Old
04-20-2011, 06:40 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Well I don't know how much validation can be put in that.

My brother and I waited outside the Great Western Forum years back after a Kings-Leafs game by the top of the tunnel (security blocks fans from going down the tunnel). Most of the Leafs got onto the team bus except Domi and Kypreos, who hopped into a jeep and Doug Gilmour (who Kings fans hate), BUT he walked up the ramp and signed autographs for us and everyone else. He also chatted and took pictures with some Leafs fan and got into a taxi cab. I will never forget that and from then on I liked Doug Gilmour. He was very friendly, probably one of my fondest player encounters besides a few with McKenna, Parros, Brad Norton and Brad May.
Yeah who knows if the taxi or limo mean anything. I'm sure we're all reading too much into it. Penner was gracious in giving autographs after the practice. Almost all the players were. Williams and Westgarth in particular were happy to see Kings fans waiting for them.

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Old
04-20-2011, 06:46 PM
  #57
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The tough guys are usually the friendliest, the stars are usually the least because they get pestered a lot, the Europeans tend to be quiet or subdued (which doesn't mean they are rude or not), just there nature.

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04-20-2011, 06:52 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
The tough guys are usually the friendliest, the stars are usually the least because they get pestered a lot, the Europeans tend to be quiet or subdued (which doesn't mean they are rude or not), just there nature.
Still remember how nice Parros was. Met him at FF and he chatted with us for a good 20 minutes.

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04-20-2011, 06:58 PM
  #59
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There is zero doubt in my mind that his conditioning is poor AND that he is overweight.
He has about a twenty stride high gear and then he's gassed. He's a BIG man, but so are many other players who have far more in then tank than I've yet seen of Penner.

As to point production particularly, he is not a beneficiary of our offensive defensive cycle system. TM uses the cycle in the offensive zone as a form of defense as well, and by keeping the forwards along the boards, Penner is not as able to set up shop in fronmt where he has previously made a living. Unlike Ryan Smyth, he is not agile with the puck behind the net.

He needs a month of bag skates with a drill instructor armed with a bull horn. Maybe this guy:


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04-20-2011, 07:02 PM
  #60
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He needs a month of bag skates with a drill instructor armed with a bull horn. Maybe this guy:

... Just wanna say that R. Lee Ermey freaking OWNS.

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04-20-2011, 07:05 PM
  #61
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... Just wanna say that R. Lee Ermey freaking OWNS.
Sir, Yes Sir.

He certainly does.

He'd have Penner busting out of Mamby Pamby land in no time flat.


Last edited by DIEHARD the King fan: 04-20-2011 at 07:28 PM.
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Old
04-20-2011, 07:17 PM
  #62
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Was at the game last night and Penner was gliding all night. We were talking and thought it could be one of 3 things,

1. He's injured. Not likely

2. He's sick. Umm, no.

3. He doesn't like the system he has to play in. I've been going to Kings games for over 20 years and don't recall seeing anyone as disinterested in a game, much less a playoff game with a crowd like that, in my life. How Penner wasn't at least a LITTLE motivated is mind boggling. I think the Murray system, right or wrong, makes players work harder and he's not comfortable with that. He just seemed lost all night.

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04-20-2011, 07:47 PM
  #63
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All I know is after that OT goal, I heard nothing else from the fans around be other than Penner talk... I easily heard over a dozen comments about his play. It is quite startling that everyone sees it and it doesn't look like it is improving. Murray better have him 180 degrees spun around by next season, I don't want to have to go through the search for a top left wing with Lombardi again (even though Penner is likely Smyth's replacement).

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Old
04-20-2011, 07:53 PM
  #64
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Lombardi probably thought he'd provide some help for Kopitar at the end of the year and in the playoffs. And Penner thought it would be great getting pucks from Kopi while Kopi did all the skating. Lord knows, Kopi can skate enough for Penner and Kopi both! But now no Kopi! Lombardi took a chance that didn't pay off.

Unhappily, I remember seeing his arms in a video piece shortly after the trade and thinking, "hope his legs are in better shape". Jason Allison comes to mind. Anyone else?

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04-20-2011, 08:00 PM
  #65
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OTOH, I remember both Stoll and Greene saying they'd been asked about Penner before the trade. And both said they were happy about the deal and him. So that doesn't exactly match up with the Edmonton stories... why would they be happy about a guy they knew didn't give his all when they were teammates? It's not like either Stoll or Greene have any patience for slackers.

Maybe it's a back injury? He does seem to really struggle after the second or third stride - physically struggle. Not out of breath struggling. More like he can't push off and make a stride. To me that's indicative of a lower back problem. I don't know, I don't remember him being this slow and lumbering when he was with the Ducks.

Besides, he does seem lost in terms of system positioning.

Maybe, he's got Frolov's stall?

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04-20-2011, 08:08 PM
  #66
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Why would Greene trash his former roomate if asked about him? Would either of there opinion matter to Lombardi anyways? There was tons of pressure for him to make a deal.

It should have been Boyes or Samsonov. Given up far less. Hemsky got hurt right after the deadline, Penner is Penner.

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04-20-2011, 09:04 PM
  #67
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Could he be conditioned better? Sure, but he was effective and putting up decent numberings in Edmonton. I think he has an off-ice issue going on. He literally looks sad to me. He's moping around.

As for the "Limo Rumor," KV posted a video showing Penner getting off the bus.

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04-20-2011, 09:26 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
Systematic.

Bigger, slower, players don't work in the system. Our centers are big and can track the play up the ice. Our forecheck requires speed from the wingers.

Our wingers are expected to go in like cannonballs and hit someone and get the puck.

By the time Poni, Penner, and Frolov get there the play is already by them.
I'm gonna go with DeeMeck. Edmonton was a faster team so the speed of play should help Penner. Anaheim had a faster team as well, he never appeared as slow as he does now. Some players don't like to cycle, they like for the center to do the work while they camp out in front of the net or in the slot. Penner is being directed behind the net into the corners and he probably doesn't like it. I think it could be weak centers as well. The Kings don't have any great passers up front right now, if you view yourself as a shooter this can be very frustrating. I'd bet the majority of times Penner touches the puck he's below the goal line and he doesn't like it.

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04-20-2011, 09:47 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Well I don't know how much validation can be put in that.

My brother and I waited outside the Great Western Forum years back after a Kings-Leafs game by the top of the tunnel (security blocks fans from going down the tunnel). Most of the Leafs got onto the team bus except Domi and Kypreos, who hopped into a jeep and Doug Gilmour (who Kings fans hate), BUT he walked up the ramp and signed autographs for us and everyone else. He also chatted and took pictures with some Leafs fan and got into a taxi cab. I will never forget that and from then on I liked Doug Gilmour. He was very friendly, probably one of my fondest player encounters besides a few with McKenna, Parros, Brad Norton and Brad May.
Just gotta re-iterate, a bit off topic, Doug Gilmour is one of the classiest guys you can ever have the pleasure of meeting. True story, officiating his son's game up here, on my daughter's 1st birthday of all day's, end up giving his son 3 penalties in a tournament game, after the game, he shook both our hands, and I asked him for an autograph to my daughter on her first birthday, guy said congradulations, WTF was I doing there, go home and be with her lol,

Absolutely great guy.

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04-20-2011, 10:34 PM
  #70
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Just gotta re-iterate, a bit off topic, Doug Gilmour is one of the classiest guys you can ever have the pleasure of meeting. True story, officiating his son's game up here, on my daughter's 1st birthday of all day's, end up giving his son 3 penalties in a tournament game, after the game, he shook both our hands, and I asked him for an autograph to my daughter on her first birthday, guy said congradulations, WTF was I doing there, go home and be with her lol,

Absolutely great guy.
Would the world come to an end if Sweet Dougie Gilmour was named the next coach of the Kings?

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04-20-2011, 10:47 PM
  #71
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Would the world come to an end if Sweet Dougie Gilmour was named the next coach of the Kings?
In Toronto, absolutely lol.

Besides I don't think Gilmour wants to move his family out to LA, besides, I don't think he is ready to coach in the NHL yet.

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04-20-2011, 11:10 PM
  #72
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Hard to watch this guy. Him and Ryan Smyth are way too much money tied up to overrated guys. Thing is Smyth is freakin money in the playoffs and busts his ass. Penner doesnt care.

Even before last night he could be the NHLer I would most love to see in a bar and punch with a lighter packed in my fist.

The organization should send him to Manchester and call up Schenn if they lose tomorrow. Send a message about winning, the talent is there but this guy is despicable and rubs everyone who supports the NHL the wrong way with his lack of caring. If Schenn gets called up in time for G5 and there is a G6 the building will be rocking and everyone will be behind the organization for being proactive. I give him one more game to redeem himself. Someone will take Dustin on waivers, especially a team like the Isles or Panthers who will need to add a guy with a notable salary to reach the cap basement.

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Old
04-20-2011, 11:12 PM
  #73
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DeBoer is out there. Dineen is still toiling in the AHL. Patty Roy could be a choice. Tocchet and Granato could be brought in.

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04-20-2011, 11:13 PM
  #74
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I think he's just sulking. He always looks like whoa is me and every interview he goes back to how close he was to people either in Edmonton or when he was with the Ducks. Every interview.

He just has not shown any attempt "get it". After a quarter of a season you should at least have an idea of what to do.

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04-20-2011, 11:55 PM
  #75
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For what we'll get out of Penner this year and next, that would be the only way the trade could be considered fair.
So far, you win. No argument there.

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