HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Time For The Los Angeles Kings To Be Patient With Dustin Penner Is Up

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-21-2011, 07:40 AM
  #1
FrozenRoyalty
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 1,305
vCash: 500
Time For The Los Angeles Kings To Be Patient With Dustin Penner Is Up

Time For The Los Angeles Kings To Be Patient With Dustin Penner Is Up

FrozenRoyalty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2011, 09:49 AM
  #2
TKFAN
Registered User
 
TKFAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Hampshire
Country: United States
Posts: 474
vCash: 500
Whether Penner's problem is work ethic, being out of shape or whatever, enough is enough. This guy makes over 4 million and year whether he works or not - how can I get that kind of a job? Penner wants to "keep doing the same thing" - are you friggin nuts Penner, that's not what the team is looking for as you are doing absolutely nothing game in and game out. I think maybe Matt Greene needs to take Penner out behind the wood shed. Can someone please light a fire cracker under this guy and get the cement out of his skates..... pathetic, just pathetic

TKFAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2011, 10:44 AM
  #3
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,673
vCash: 500
The time to be patient was over a while ago. The guy has no work ethic, never did. I knew we shouldn't have got him, but I didn't think it'd be any where close to this bad. Right now I'd either stick him in the press box or tell him he only plays powerplays and that's solely to stay in front of the net and be a screen. Hopefully he can handle that task, though the physical play might scare him off.

What a waste of talent. Guy could be a 40 goal 100 point player. Seriously, when he's on his game that's how great he can be. He is like a poor man's Lindros when he's on his game. He can dominate through pure physical power if he wants. Problem is he rarely wants that, thus the horrible performances.

And it's not just because he doesn't have Kopitar either. After that five point burst in his first six games, he has two assists in the last 16 games, counting playoffs. Peter Harrold scores at a better clip. What does that tell you?

And we get to potentially witness this next year, all for the low, low price of a 1st, a 2nd/3rd, a decent prospect in Colton Teubert and the $4.25 million in cap space he eats up. This is likely why DL doesn't do many big trades. He gets bent over in them.

kingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2011, 11:08 AM
  #4
JT Dutch*
Cult of Personality
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,548
vCash: 500
... I don't buy this notion that Penner is lazy and has no work ethic. If Stoll and Greene vouched for this guy, I'm willing to believe that a lot more than media/message board scapegoating. There's always this quest to single out someone to blame, even though game 3 was unquestionably a team loss with many mistakes across the board.

Last season, Justin Williams was one who was at fault on a sequence that cost the Kings a game in the playoffs, and I didn't come across any story entitled "Time for the Kings to be patient with Justin Williams is up" despite Williams scoring just 20 points in his last 40 games prior to the playoffs. Williams got to play a full and mostly healthy season in 2010-11, and played pretty well.

Who's to say Penner won't benefit from being with the Kings from the beginning of training camp next season?

JT Dutch* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2011, 11:37 AM
  #5
tomd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,707
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... I don't buy this notion that Penner is lazy and has no work ethic. If Stoll and Greene vouched for this guy, I'm willing to believe that a lot more than media/message board scapegoating. There's always this quest to single out someone to blame, even though game 3 was unquestionably a team loss with many mistakes across the board.

Last season, Justin Williams was one who was at fault on a sequence that cost the Kings a game in the playoffs, and I didn't come across any story entitled "Time for the Kings to be patient with Justin Williams is up" despite Williams scoring just 20 points in his last 40 games prior to the playoffs. Williams got to play a full and mostly healthy season in 2010-11, and played pretty well.

Who's to say Penner won't benefit from being with the Kings from the beginning of training camp next season?
Once again...this was a deadline acquisition to help the team get into the playoffs and win a series or two THIS year. If DL wanted help for next year, he could have acquired Penner at the June draft.

Everyone needs to stop making excuses for this bum. He has been beyond awful and the trade so far is a total bust.

DL and his pro scouting staff need to be held to account for this trade as well. Penner is everything that DL HATES in a hockey player but he spent valuable assets to get him...makes no sense and reeks of a panic move.

tomd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2011, 12:12 PM
  #6
Sydor25
LA Kings
 
Sydor25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 21,849
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Sydor25
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomd View Post
Once again...this was a deadline acquisition to help the team get into the playoffs and win a series or two THIS year. If DL wanted help for next year, he could have acquired Penner at the June draft.
Everyone needs to stop making excuses for this bum. He has been beyond awful and the trade so far is a total bust.

DL and his pro scouting staff need to be held to account for this trade as well. Penner is everything that DL HATES in a hockey player but he spent valuable assets to get him...makes no sense and reeks of a panic move.
You love to say this, but that was before Kopitar was hurt and Williams was stuck playing with only 1 arm.

Sure, Penner was acquired to help this season, but the bigger picture is that he was acquired because he did have another year left on his contract and was not going to be just a rental. Didn't most people complain when O'Sullivan and a 2nd was traded for Williams? It just takes time for players to adapt to Murray. If Penner can't adapt next season, he will be moved at the deadline for a draft pick. Again, Dean acquired a 25+ goal scorer in the NHL for zero roster players.

Penner would have been on another team by the time the June draft rolled around. He would not be available and there is not another LW that is available and has scored as much as Penner has the past few years. Dean had to get him at the deadline if he wanted him.

No one is saying that they are not disappointed with Penner's play and production, but there have been many players that have struggled to produce under Murray's system. I said as much at the time of the trade. I said that he would produce for a couple of weeks and then tail off because he will be required to adhere to the rigid system. Loktionov was the same way and he has even had a couple of training camps with Murray.

Here are some players that have had success away from Murray and struggled with him:

Moulson
Purcell
Frolov
Poni

It took some time for Kopitar, Brown, Williams, Smyth and Stoll to learn to produce under Murray. And all of them have had long slumps under Murray. Handzus has blown more coverage’s on defense in the playoffs than Penner has, yet he gets a free pass. Richardson left Clowe wide open in the slot for a goal and was standing next to Quick covering no one.

Putting your two slowest players on the same line has never been successful with Murray's system. Lewis should be the center for Penner and Brown.

How much has Handzus' wingers really produced this season? Simmonds' and Poni have been disappointing all season and Brown was much better with Stoll and Kopitar at center. I don't remember Clifford looking as good as he does playing with Richardson when he was playing Handzus as his center.

The Kings could go with a much more skilled lineup next season and if they do, we will see if Murray can truly adapt his system.

Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Smyth-Schenn/Loktionov-Brown
Clifford-Stoll-Simmonds
Parse-Lewis-Richardson/Westgarth

That lineup would have skill, creativity and speed on every line. That is why I think Murray will get 1 more year to show that he can win in the playoffs post-lockout. If he can't win with that lineup, it won't matter who Dean acquires for Murray.

Let's just wait and see how Penner shows up to camp and starts the year playing with Kopitar and Williams before we throw him under the limo.

Sydor25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2011, 12:25 PM
  #7
JT Dutch*
Cult of Personality
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Here are some players that have had success away from Murray and struggled with him:

Moulson
Purcell
Frolov
... Moulson never really got much of a shot to show what he could do. Purcell was played out of position and was getting just 10-11 minutes a game to boot; again, not much of a shot.

Frolov had arguably his best season playing for Murray in 08-09, where he was the Kings' best forward. He likely would have done the same in 09-10 if he hadn't been used primarily on a defensive line, and hadn't seen his ice time on the PP (and his overall ice time) decline a minute and a half per game.

It was less about the system with those three, and more about the fact that Murray didn't want to play Moulson and Purcell all too much - and (in my view) chose, along with the GM, to sabotage Frolov in order to decrease his market value.

JT Dutch* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2011, 12:26 PM
  #8
etherialone
dialed in your mom
 
etherialone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Ether
Country: United Nations
Posts: 12,990
vCash: 500
Penner's game is off, way off but that doesn't mean that the guys is a write off at all. He was playing very well all things considered and then seemed to hit a wall that changed his entire style of play. Could be an injury could be personal but more likely is that he is having a hard time fitting in to our current system.

We saw the same thing when Moller came up and the same thing with Loktionov too. It seems that when players come to the Kings they, for whatever reason seem to lose their offencive instincts for long periods of time.

It almost seems like they come in and play with the style/game that we brought them to the team for and then rapidly lose it and become sort of shadow versions of their former selfs. Like they are afraid to play with any offencive game. It is absolutely systemic if you ask me but that doesn't mean that the system is wrong, only different.

I see Penner as being a very good big LW who will find his way in our system or be part of the way that end up find a new one.

etherialone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2011, 12:29 PM
  #9
etherialone
dialed in your mom
 
etherialone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Ether
Country: United Nations
Posts: 12,990
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... Moulson never really got much of a shot to show what he could do. Purcell was played out of position and was getting just 10-11 minutes a game to boot; again, not much of a shot.

Frolov had arguably his best season playing for Murray in 08-09, where he was the Kings' best forward. He likely would have done the same in 09-10 if he hadn't been used primarily on a defensive line, and hadn't seen his ice time on the PP (and his overall ice time) decline a minute and a half per game.

It was less about the system with those three, and more about the fact that Murray didn't want to play Moulson and Purcell all too much - and (in my view) chose, along with the GM, to sabotage Frolov in order to decrease his market value.
I agree with this 100%^

etherialone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2011, 01:02 PM
  #10
Sydor25
LA Kings
 
Sydor25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 21,849
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Sydor25
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... Moulson never really got much of a shot to show what he could do. Purcell was played out of position and was getting just 10-11 minutes a game to boot; again, not much of a shot.

Frolov had arguably his best season playing for Murray in 08-09, where he was the Kings' best forward. He likely would have done the same in 09-10 if he hadn't been used primarily on a defensive line, and hadn't seen his ice time on the PP (and his overall ice time) decline a minute and a half per game.

It was less about the system with those three, and more about the fact that Murray didn't want to play Moulson and Purcell all too much - and (in my view) chose, along with the GM, to sabotage Frolov in order to decrease his market value.

I don't disagree with your thoughts on Murray's handling of the players, but if Moulson, Frolov and Purcell meshed with Murray's system in practice, then they would have been used in games more. Murray picks his favorites and slams his unchosen ones. Fans do the same.

That was my point, Murray doesn't adapt his system to his players ability and skill. Moulson got 22 games and I felt did well enough a get a shot with the Kings in the next season, Murray did not and only gave him 7 games. His way or the highway. Penner hasn't had a training camp with Murray and is already being thrown under the bus with the Kings and he has proven that he can produce in the NHL.

Purcell was given way more games than Moulson, but still couldn't "get" Murray's system to produce offensively. If he did, he would have received more ice time. Murray has a very short leash with some players.

Was Frolov really playing into Murray's system in 08-09, it was Murray's first year and most of the players were just starting to adapt. Or was he freeloading and that is what got him in the doghouse with Murray for 09-10? He was benched by Murray for "defensive" mistakes, you don't think that shows that Frolov struggled with Murray's system?

Frolov was far better with Crawford (138 points in 153 games, -7) and was better with the post-lockout Andy Murray (54 points in 69 games, +17). The team had more success with Terry, but Frolov was always out of sorts in Murray's mind and system (110 points in 158 games, -7).

Moller will probably be the next to find success on another NHL franchise, maybe Loktionov after him. Schenn, Moller and Loktionov have all already been called out by Murray for their defensive mistakes and not playing "heavy" enough.

Smyth is the softest player on the Kings and almost never back checks, yet we hear nothing from Murray about it.

I'm just not ready to write off Penner as a mistake until the Kings have a full lineup and Penner has had a training camp with the Kings.

Sydor25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2011, 01:38 PM
  #11
JT Dutch*
Cult of Personality
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
I don't disagree with your thoughts on Murray's handling of the players, but if Moulson, Frolov and Purcell meshed with Murray's system in practice, then they would have been used in games more. Murray picks his favorites and slams his unchosen ones.
... This is a bit contradictory. I think it's pretty well established that Murray digs the veterans, and there was no way that relatively unheralded young players like Moulson or Purcell were going to stay in the lineup unless they set the World on fire right off the bat. I don't believe for a second that it was because they didn't mesh with Murray's system in practice. Murray simply wanted to play a guy like Calder ahead of Moulson in 08-09 because Calder was a veteran. Purcell got a bit of a chance in 08-09 (40 games) but he was still only playing about 13 1/2 minutes a game, and once Williams was able to play in 09-10, that just bumped Purcell off of the RW depth chart - and from then on it was just a matter of time until Teddy was playing elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Frolov was far better with Crawford (138 points in 153 games, -7) and was better with the post-lockout Andy Murray (54 points in 69 games, +17). The team had more success with Terry, but Frolov was always out of sorts in Murray's mind and system (110 points in 158 games, -7).
... Sure, Frolov had his highest scoring season in 06-07 based on a lot of assists, but for Frolov to score 32 goals in 08-09 (on a defense-first team that only scored 202) was a better achievement in my mind. Frolov's -6 in 08-09 also looks more impressive when you consider that only one Kings forward (O'Sullivan) had a positive +/-, and he was only +1.

I'm willing to write off Frolov's decline in scoring in 09-10, because that was by design. Frolov had a better season than Smyth in 09-10 when you look at even strength production, but because Smyth got to play far more on the PP and play far more alongside Kopitar, Smyth's overall numbers look better. Murray and Lombardi just wanted "Captain Canada" Smyth to be the #1 LW and wanted Frolov either out or to come back at a drastically reduced price, and did what they needed to do to make that happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Moller will probably be the next to find success on another NHL franchise, maybe Loktionov after him. Schenn, Moller and Loktionov have all already been called out by Murray for their defensive mistakes and not playing "heavy" enough.
... I agree. I don't think we'll see much from any of those three guys until Murray's gone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Smyth is the softest player on the Kings and almost never back checks, yet we hear nothing from Murray about it.
... Because he's "Captain Canada" Ryan Smyth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
I'm just not ready to write off Penner as a mistake until the Kings have a full lineup and Penner has had a training camp with the Kings.
... Also agree with you here. Neither am I. If he's in better condition next season, he will do well.

JT Dutch* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2011, 07:22 PM
  #12
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,673
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... I don't buy this notion that Penner is lazy and has no work ethic. If Stoll and Greene vouched for this guy, I'm willing to believe that a lot more than media/message board scapegoating. There's always this quest to single out someone to blame, even though game 3 was unquestionably a team loss with many mistakes across the board.

Last season, Justin Williams was one who was at fault on a sequence that cost the Kings a game in the playoffs, and I didn't come across any story entitled "Time for the Kings to be patient with Justin Williams is up" despite Williams scoring just 20 points in his last 40 games prior to the playoffs. Williams got to play a full and mostly healthy season in 2010-11, and played pretty well.

Who's to say Penner won't benefit from being with the Kings from the beginning of training camp next season?
I look at Williams like I look at Handzus. Due to the injuries, people around here gave both players a full seasons leeway to rebound. After his first season, handzus looked awful but has had good seasons since then. Williams wasn't very good when he first got here but looked really good to start the enxt season.

Penner has no injury to fall back on. He was scoring at about a 30 goal pace when he got here from Edmonton and has managed to not even score at a 30 point pace since. His game was supposed to improve by being on a better team, not decline for some random excuse.

Additionally, Williams may not have produced any better than Penner when he first got here but no one complained about his work ethic.

kingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2011, 07:45 PM
  #13
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,673
vCash: 500
[QUOTE=Sydor25;32547994]
Quote:
You love to say this, but that was before Kopitar was hurt and Williams was stuck playing with only 1 arm.
He has two assists in his last 16 games, including the playoffs and he's had Kopitar or Williams for nine of them. Sure those guys are great linemates, but isn't it reasonable to ask Penner to produce more than two assists in 16 games, regardless of who he is playing with? I mean Pater Harrold has four points in 19 games, and he doesn't get near the ice time or powerplay opportunities or linemates Penner does.

Quote:
Penner would have been on another team by the time the June draft rolled around. He would not be available and there is not another LW that is available and has scored as much as Penner has the past few years. Dean had to get him at the deadline if he wanted him.
Incorrect, at least according to a documentary on the trade deadline done by Sportsnet. They followed Tambellini, Penner and the teama round in the weeks leading up to the trade deadline and were showing some of the trade deadline day talks between Tambellini and DL. Tambellini said the Kings were the only team willing to give the package they wanted and that the Oilers were gald to keep Penner next year if they didn't get what they wanted. It seems Penner was either in LA or Edmonton, and no where else.

Quote:
No one is saying that they are not disappointed with Penner's play and production, but there have been many players that have struggled to produce under Murray's system. I said as much at the time of the trade. I said that he would produce for a couple of weeks and then tail off because he will be required to adhere to the rigid system. Loktionov was the same way and he has even had a couple of training camps with Murray.
There's a difference between tailing off and doing virtually nothing. There's also a difference between tailing off and working hard and tailing off and being a defensive liability.

kingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2011, 08:17 PM
  #14
Sydor25
LA Kings
 
Sydor25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 21,849
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Sydor25
So, nobody slumps except Penner?

Poni went 23 games with only 1 goal and only 1 goal and 1 assist in 27 games.

Brown had 1 goal and 4 points in a 17 game stretch.

Doughty had 1 goal and 7 points in his first 21 games.

Johnson had 2 assists in the final 21 games of the season.


Penner was brought in to create space for Kopitar and Williams and put a complete top line together. He had 2 goals and 6 points in the 10 games they had together, not bad for a player on a new team and system.

Williams had 3 goals and 8 points in those 10 games. Kopitar had 5 goals and 10 points in those 10 games. That's 10 goals and 24 points for that line in the 10 games together.

Sydor25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2011, 08:32 PM
  #15
MxK1NGS
Registered User
 
MxK1NGS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Santa Clarita, CA
Posts: 2,830
vCash: 500
Penner with an explosive night tonight. Mark my word!

MxK1NGS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2011, 08:57 PM
  #16
Kurrilino
Go Stoll Go
 
Kurrilino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,533
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Kurrilino
so you guys start to hate Penner but
defend players like Armstrong, Stoll, Westgarth and the coaching staff since 3 years ????

Just face it.
Doesn't matter we bring in at summer, Murray would turn Ovechkin into a 15 goal scorer.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Penner.
Mostly he is in great position but gets ignored by players who don't know how to play offensive hockey

Kurrilino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 12:50 AM
  #17
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,673
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
So, nobody slumps except Penner?

Poni went 23 games with only 1 goal and only 1 goal and 1 assist in 27 games.

Brown had 1 goal and 4 points in a 17 game stretch.

Doughty had 1 goal and 7 points in his first 21 games.

Johnson had 2 assists in the final 21 games of the season.


Penner was brought in to create space for Kopitar and Williams and put a complete top line together. He had 2 goals and 6 points in the 10 games they had together, not bad for a player on a new team and system.

Williams had 3 goals and 8 points in those 10 games. Kopitar had 5 goals and 10 points in those 10 games. That's 10 goals and 24 points for that line in the 10 games together.
Not debating on if anyone else is slumping. This thread is about Penner. Penner is doing brutal. The line may have done well in the games they were together. That does nothing to displace the fact he has 2 assists in 16 games despite good minutes with some of the better players on the team and powerplay time to boot. Few players on the team have produced worse.

kingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 12:54 AM
  #18
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,673
vCash: 500
[QUOTE=Kurrilino;32560070]
Quote:
so you guys start to hate Penner but
defend players like Armstrong, Stoll, Westgarth and the coaching staff since 3 years ????
They performed up to what we expected of them. Penner hasn't. Honestly the only one I see bashing Stoll on here is you.

Quote:
Doesn't matter we bring in at summer, Murray would turn Ovechkin into a 15 goal scorer. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Penner.
Mostly he is in great position but gets ignored by players who don't know how to play offensive hockey
Do you watch the LA Kings? Seriously. There's nothing wrong with Penner's play whatsoever? He's in great position? Do you even see the goals he's costing us out there?

Btw, I'm not a TM fan either, but he wouldn't turn Ovechkin into a 15 goal guy. try and make a serious post for once Kurrilino.

kingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:55 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.