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Where is the line drawn with these refs?

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Old
04-21-2011, 07:14 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by vladmyir111 View Post
Your thinking is quite altruistic, but when 2 teams are so close at the end of each game your magical what if hard work theory falls by the wayside when one team gets a free goal in 2 games and the other doesn't.

We're not talking about bad luck bounces here like the game winning goal last night, that's the kind of **** you work to overcome.
I completely understand your opinion, i just disagree. The first goal to tie game one by Ovie the whistle should have been blown, no doubt in my mind. The puck was out of sight for over 5 seconds and jabbed at finally going in net regardless if whether or not Hank should have had it and everyone not named Girardi and Staal were frozen watching instead of going after Ovie.

As for the Semin goal last night, I feel the ref had a terrible angle and couldn't see anything and thats why he was late in blowing the whistle. Should he have blown the whistle, Yes, but Hank had the puck covered for a second or two tops. Either way the Rangers were up 3-1 after that goal, no excuse to fold like that. If this team got their crap together after the McDonagh mistake instead of waving the white flag they win that game 3-1.

That doesn't excuse the nonsense penalty call on avery after the no call for hooking Feds down and the boarding of Staal and the Devorski interference on a 2 on 0 breakaway. The refs were horrendous last night on a new level, but the Rangers still lost the game. Game 1 we should have won, that tying goal shows how bad officiating in the current NHL is, but the game 4 loss is on Torts, Sullivan, and especially the players hands.

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04-21-2011, 08:15 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Section 409 View Post
Do refs ever get fined for doing something stupid like the players can?
No idea, but let's say they did. Do you think the overall calling of the game would improve? If you believe that, you must believe that they don't take their jobs seriously or they do not care. I don't believe that is the case.

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04-21-2011, 08:17 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
If the Refs lose sight of the puck they are supposed to blow the whistle. That is the rule and I don't have a problem with it. The goal in game 1 the puck was under Hank for about 6-8 second and the whistle should have been blown. To me that one was worse than last night, where the ref CLEARLY was not in any position to see the puck was still lose from his angle alone and where Semin was. Hank had that puck for all of a second or two. The play early in game 2 where the puck was lose in the Caps crease and the ref blew the whistle instantly cause he lost sight was comedy compared to the Ovie goal in game 1. All I ask for is consistency, I don't have a problem with that rule.

What I do have a huge issues with is just the inconsistency of calls. How is that not a hook when Feds was taken down in the slot losing a scoring opportunity but they call a slash on avery the next play? The boarding on Staal that wasn't called in OT? Look our PP was a joke, a JOKE, but officials just be consistent. Blow the whistle when u lose sight of the puck, if you are going to call penalties than call them all. As a fan thats all I can ask for. The Devorski interference was sad, but so was the teams performance in the 3rd and on the OT goal. After that 3rd period I didn't expect to win as I am not the most upbeat Ranger fan having been a fan since the late 80's and I don't blame the officials, but they certainly don't do themselves any favors.
I understand you're unhappy but like I asked someone else, how do you get consistency out of human beings making judgment calls while skating fast and watching guys skating fast who are trying to kill each other? Hell, umpires blow calls and they are standing still.

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04-21-2011, 08:33 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
I understand you're unhappy but like I asked someone else, how do you get consistency out of human beings making judgment calls while skating fast and watching guys skating fast who are trying to kill each other? Hell, umpires blow calls and they are standing still.
Shouldn't be a judgement call. There are 2 officials who are trained to know what is a penalty. These guys are out there with professional athletes at the top of their game, the officials should be the best of the best. Everyone makes mistakes. Have you seen any posts from me absolutely slamming Devorski for taking out Dubi? Nope, cause that was a mistake and a bad one, he was out of position and got in the way, it sucked but was a mistake (be it a costly one). However, the inability to call the hook against Feds then countered by the slash on Avery shows inconsistency that has been hampering the league for years. The ref clearly watched as Staal was hit while in a vulnerable position in overtime, but a delay of game and too many men on the ice penalty are both called? So a scoring chance thats taken away goes uncalled and a dangerous hit goes unpunished but a puck over the glass and too many men on the ice (both penalties that would not be called until after the lockout in OT) are plays that could determine games these days. The NHL needs to address these issues.

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04-21-2011, 08:52 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
I understand you're unhappy but like I asked someone else, how do you get consistency out of human beings making judgment calls while skating fast and watching guys skating fast who are trying to kill each other? Hell, umpires blow calls and they are standing still.
Where does this line of thinking end though? Is it okay for the ref to get right in Dubi's way because he's only human and they're all skating fast? I don't think so personally. A borderline slash called here, a missed trip there, whatever - you're right, nobody is perfect and the game is very fast. But to be right next to the other ref and in the way of a 2 on 0 breakaway in a game that either ties a series or makes it 3 - 1 is not okay. "They're just human" doesn't cover that for me. He should be able to not end up in the middle of the play when there are only 2 skaters in the zone. 2 guys in all that room and he ends up directly in front of one of them and about 3 feet away from the other ref. That is way past human error. There was no reason for him to be in that area at all and further, as I said already, the zone wasn't packed with fast moving athletes trying to kill each other - it was just 2 guys breaking in on a goalie. I can take the missed call on Staal and the odd call on Avery but getting in the way of that play is not okay.

I don't have an answer to what should be done about it but an apology from the official would be a nice start. He doesn't need to get into the fact that it could have changed the outcome of the game and this series or anything like that, he could just acknowledge that he made a mental error that killed an otherwise very promising scoring chance. Apologize to the team and their fans, take a moderate measure of embarrassment and move on. That'd probably leave a more lasting impression on the guy than a fine would.

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04-21-2011, 09:09 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Where does this line of thinking end though? Is it okay for the ref to get right in Dubi's way because he's only human and they're all skating fast? I don't think so personally. A borderline slash called here, a missed trip there, whatever - you're right, nobody is perfect and the game is very fast. But to be right next to the other ref and in the way of a 2 on 0 breakaway in a game that either ties a series or makes it 3 - 1 is not okay. "They're just human" doesn't cover that for me. He should be able to not end up in the middle of the play when there are only 2 skaters in the zone. 2 guys in all that room and he ends up directly in front of one of them and about 3 feet away from the other ref. That is way past human error. There was no reason for him to be in that area at all and further, as I said already, the zone wasn't packed with fast moving athletes trying to kill each other - it was just 2 guys breaking in on a goalie. I can take the missed call on Staal and the odd call on Avery but getting in the way of that play is not okay.

I don't have an answer to what should be done about it but an apology from the official would be a nice start. He doesn't need to get into the fact that it could have changed the outcome of the game and this series or anything like that, he could just acknowledge that he made a mental error that killed an otherwise very promising scoring chance. Apologize to the team and their fans, take a moderate measure of embarrassment and move on. That'd probably leave a more lasting impression on the guy than a fine would.
An apology would be nice, but this is the NHL where the officials can do no wrong and they don't apologize to anyone for anything. Yeah Devorski made a mistake, but that doesn't irk me as much as non-calls that were clearly seen by refs and then they call a garbage slash literally seconds after a scoring chance was taken away. Look the refs are not the scapegoats of game 4 to me, the Rangers and the coaching staff are as they blew the lead and failed again. But with consistent officiating, the hook on Feds is called and we go on the PP and that Avery penalty never occurs. If they consistently called what is deemed a penalty by the rules maybe the Caps don't tie it and the 2-0 breakaway that prevented a scoring chance never happens.

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04-21-2011, 09:59 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
Shouldn't be a judgement call. There are 2 officials who are trained to know what is a penalty. These guys are out there with professional athletes at the top of their game, the officials should be the best of the best. Everyone makes mistakes. Have you seen any posts from me absolutely slamming Devorski for taking out Dubi? Nope, cause that was a mistake and a bad one, he was out of position and got in the way, it sucked but was a mistake (be it a costly one). However, the inability to call the hook against Feds then countered by the slash on Avery shows inconsistency that has been hampering the league for years. The ref clearly watched as Staal was hit while in a vulnerable position in overtime, but a delay of game and too many men on the ice penalty are both called? So a scoring chance thats taken away goes uncalled and a dangerous hit goes unpunished but a puck over the glass and too many men on the ice (both penalties that would not be called until after the lockout in OT) are plays that could determine games these days. The NHL needs to address these issues.
Aren't balls and strikes not judgement calls? The criteria for balls and strikes are definitely clearer than the rules of hockey and much easier to observe, yet those calls are blown on a regular basis.

Please name a sport where you think the refs or umps get it right on a consistent basis.

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04-21-2011, 10:01 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Where does this line of thinking end though? Is it okay for the ref to get right in Dubi's way because he's only human and they're all skating fast? I don't think so personally. A borderline slash called here, a missed trip there, whatever - you're right, nobody is perfect and the game is very fast. But to be right next to the other ref and in the way of a 2 on 0 breakaway in a game that either ties a series or makes it 3 - 1 is not okay. "They're just human" doesn't cover that for me. He should be able to not end up in the middle of the play when there are only 2 skaters in the zone. 2 guys in all that room and he ends up directly in front of one of them and about 3 feet away from the other ref. That is way past human error. There was no reason for him to be in that area at all and further, as I said already, the zone wasn't packed with fast moving athletes trying to kill each other - it was just 2 guys breaking in on a goalie. I can take the missed call on Staal and the odd call on Avery but getting in the way of that play is not okay.

I don't have an answer to what should be done about it but an apology from the official would be a nice start. He doesn't need to get into the fact that it could have changed the outcome of the game and this series or anything like that, he could just acknowledge that he made a mental error that killed an otherwise very promising scoring chance. Apologize to the team and their fans, take a moderate measure of embarrassment and move on. That'd probably leave a more lasting impression on the guy than a fine would.
If an apology was made, the reaction of the average fan, in fact most fans, would be to jump on it and claim that a protest should be filed. Almost no one would be satisfied.

I'll ask you, too. In what sport do you think that the officials do a better job?

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04-21-2011, 10:08 PM
  #84
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please just up the low quality vid. i hope to god the league reviews this, as he made zero effort to move and had all the time and space in the world. how on earth can this scum bash another referee's skating abilities?
Bad quality, but here we are.


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04-21-2011, 10:22 PM
  #85
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u had msg, the Versus feed had a perfect reverse angle where you could see the play develop from the other side and you could see Devorski skate into his path...

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04-21-2011, 10:29 PM
  #86
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First time I saw that. There is no reason for Devorski to be there. Unreal. He made no effort to get out of the way.

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04-21-2011, 10:38 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Aren't balls and strikes not judgement calls? The criteria for balls and strikes are definitely clearer than the rules of hockey and much easier to observe, yet those calls are blown on a regular basis.

Please name a sport where you think the refs or umps get it right on a consistent basis.
I don't follow baseball (and I think calling a strike or ball is a lot more difficult than calling a hook where the stick is parallel to the ice) and I am not trying to get into a debate as to which sport has the best officials as that doesn't serve any purpose as it is totally subjective. What I can say is once you are an NHL referee you are here to stay which means no matter how bad you are, you have a job day in and day out once the season starts. This line of thinking is flawed. There is no salary cap with guaranteed contracts for NHL refs and Linesman. Officials should be graded at the end of the season by the league and GM's and get fired or retained based on their performance. There are ways to fix these issues but it appears the NHL has no desire how to fix these things. The NHL can mandate to call all penalties or just go back to the clutch and grab days where only dangerous plays or the loss of a scoring chance is called. Currently the league is in between calling everything and letting things go as if the NHL was still pre-lockout. I am offering suggestions as to how to help solve these issues, if you don't agree with my ideas and opinions thats fine too.

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04-21-2011, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
u had msg, the Versus feed had a perfect reverse angle where you could see the play develop from the other side and you could see Devorski skate into his path...
Yeah that's actually when they played it at 2AM I taped it because I wanted to see that play again. I did have versus, just didn't tape it live.

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04-21-2011, 10:46 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Section 409 View Post
Bad quality, but here we are.


thank you for the video. i want to know what you honestly think the ref was thinking before and during that?

and can we get the versus camera angle?

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04-21-2011, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Ice Hockey View Post
thank you for the video. i want to know what you honestly think the ref was thinking before and during that?

and can we get the versus camera angle?
I don't actually have thee Versus feed recorded, sorry. I will see if any of my friends do though, but I doubt it. I don't have an idea what he was thinking or if he was

My biggest problem here is when you watch that video, is Devorski never attemps to get out of the way and he actually extends his arms and pushes Dubinsky.

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04-21-2011, 11:19 PM
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I dont understand how Dubi keeps his cool and doesn't hit the ref. Hell, i've done it, and that was in a beer league.

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04-21-2011, 11:22 PM
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I dont understand how Dubi keeps his cool and doesn't hit the ref. Hell, i've done it, and that was in a beer league.
Dubi would lose 100's of thousands of dollars, you just get banned from your local rink

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04-21-2011, 11:25 PM
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Dubi would lose 100's of thousands of dollars, you just get banned from your local rink
He will be getting millions soon, I think it would have been worth it

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04-21-2011, 11:28 PM
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So whenever the Rangers lose a game, it's the refs' fault, got it thanks

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04-21-2011, 11:34 PM
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So whenever the Rangers lose a game, it's the refs' fault, got it thanks
Right because that's what everyone said. We're not just alluding to the fact that it was a terrible job by the ref, and cost the a 2-on-0. There is no way the Rangers could have scored there, none, so there is no way the ref might have cost them the game. It's just impossible.

We should ignore the league wide officiating problem, and let the players decide the game. Hell, why not get rid of the refs to begin with. The players can trip and hold each other. If a player gets tripped on a breakaway that's his problem, he should be good enough to maintain his balance.

So, yeah you're right sports don't need officials. See what I did there?

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04-21-2011, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Section 409 View Post
Right because that's what everyone said. We're not just alluding to the fact that it was a terrible job by the ref, and cost the a 2-on-0. There is no way the Rangers could have scored there, none, so there is no way the ref might have cost them the game. It's just impossible.

We should ignore the league wide officiating problem, and let the players decide the game. Hell, why not get rid of the refs to begin with. The players can trip and hold each other. If a player gets tripped on a breakaway that's his problem, he should be good enough to maintain his balance.

So, yeah you're right sports don't need officials. See what I did there?
I'm not talking about the 2 on 0 I'm talking about the general talk here, it's blame the refs, blame Bettman, conspiracy blah blah blah, gimme a break, blaming thje refs is a cop out

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04-22-2011, 12:05 AM
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I'm not talking about the 2 on 0 I'm talking about the general talk here, it's blame the refs, blame Bettman, conspiracy blah blah blah, gimme a break, blaming thje refs is a cop out

I don't understand, you don't think it's okay to blame the refs on a legit gripe that broke up on a 2-on-0? I'm not one for blaming the refs, they blew a 3-0 lead I get that, but the ref took away a major opportunity, and it looked like he gave no effort to move.

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04-22-2011, 12:12 AM
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To me that's wrong place wrong time **** happens and I'm not picking on you or calling you out, this season in general has been the worst I've seen on here in regards to blaming the officials

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04-22-2011, 12:18 AM
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To me that's wrong place wrong time **** happens and I'm not picking on you or calling you out, this season in general has been the worst I've seen on here in regards to blaming the officials
Well, I haven't been here all year, but that's human nature (Not that I agree with it). However, this play goes beyond wrong play wrong time, he pushes Dubinsky, and makes no effort to move, it's just unacceptable.

I imagine we can agree that officiating in this league overall is a problem.

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04-22-2011, 12:21 AM
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guys ive said it before and i will say it again, open your eyes all sports are rigged and set up, we had no chance to win this series going into it, you think Bettman wants Ovechkin to advance to get his ratings higher? or the NYR to get his ratings higher? lets be serious hes without two of his golden boys in Malkin and Crosby so hes gotta make sure Ovie is in throughout the whole way, wouldnt be surprised if they make it to the cup this year. For instance go watch the 09 series after we were up 3-1 and go see how many calls went the Caps way in games 5 6 7, its all set up guys, every sport you watch is rigged face it.

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