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Habs should sign Wisniewski over Markov

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Old
04-21-2011, 09:19 PM
  #276
Skarjak
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This kind of game proves Markov is still needed.

Not necessarily because of Wisniewski's play. He has been good. Our transition game was pretty strong tonight.

But with a guy like Markov, the Bruins wouldn't have gotten nearly as many scoring chances tonight. Markov was our best offensive defenseman and our best defensive defanseman as well. We just can't let him go.

I still say we should sign both though.

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04-21-2011, 09:57 PM
  #277
coolasprICE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
The more this playoff series progresses, the more I'm thinking that Wiz isn't worth a penny over 4M$.

He's has a good shot, plays hard, and competes all game long, but his decision making in all phases of the game is more often questionable than it is effective.

Unlike Streit, who was a dangerous PP weapon but also a very smart hockey player, Wiz is a dangerous PP weapon who lacks solid game sense.

if we pay him anywhere near what the market will give him (as a UFA coming off of a 50+pt season), we will come to regret it big time.

Choosing him over Markov? no way in hell....

I find Wiz has picked-up his game a lot in this series...

If anything, his value has risen since the series has started... plays very tough in his own zone, and has offensive talent. He's worth 4.5-5.5 UFA market easily.

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04-21-2011, 10:57 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
I find Wiz has picked-up his game a lot in this series...

If anything, his value has risen since the series has started... plays very tough in his own zone, and has offensive talent. He's worth 4.5-5.5 UFA market easily.
I thought Wiz played fine, there was a few mistakes but that Boston second goal should of been a Bruin penalty. Player had his stick between Wiz's legs and spun him around.

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04-21-2011, 11:02 PM
  #279
JGRB
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Markov>Subban>Gorges/Wisniewski>Gill>Hamrlik/Weber>Spacek.

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04-21-2011, 11:38 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
The more this playoff series progresses, the more I'm thinking that Wiz isn't worth a penny over 4M$.

He's has a good shot, plays hard, and competes all game long, but his decision making in all phases of the game is more often questionable than it is effective.

Unlike Streit, who was a dangerous PP weapon but also a very smart hockey player, Wiz is a dangerous PP weapon who lacks solid game sense.

if we pay him anywhere near what the market will give him (as a UFA coming off of a 50+pt season), we will come to regret it big time.

Choosing him over Markov? no way in hell....
Agreed, and if I'm to overpay for a player, I'd rather break the bank for Ehrhoff.
What I would really be happy with is if we can land Ehrhoff and Erskine. The only problem with that however, would be having too many lefties again. I believe that's why Wiz remains appealing, he's a righty.

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04-21-2011, 11:44 PM
  #281
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Habs should sign Markov over Wiz....and that's not even close. But the excuse label cannot count anymore. If you choose to sign Markov, you better have other d-men that will be able to take the workload if Markov goes....again. So younger d-men needed, not rookies, just younger than Spacek....Hamrlik...Mara....Sopel....

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04-21-2011, 11:46 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Habs should sign Markov over Wiz....and that's not even close. But the excuse label cannot count anymore. If you choose to sign Markov, you better have other d-men that will be able to take the workload if Markov goes....again. So younger d-men needed, not rookies, just younger than Spacek....Hamrlik...Mara....Sopel....
That's why you sign both.

Wiz can produce almost Markov-like offensive numers and he's solid enough to play Top 4 minutes in his own zone. Our lack of depth on the left side outside of Markov is extremely concerning however, unless Gorges can make the transition from right to left.

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04-22-2011, 09:57 AM
  #283
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Originally Posted by googlymoogly View Post
I thought Wiz played fine, there was a few mistakes but that Boston second goal should of been a Bruin penalty. Player had his stick between Wiz's legs and spun him around.
don't get me wrong, I don't think Wiz has been "bad" this series, just that he hasn't played like a 4M$+ dman, and certainly hasn't played anywhere near the level of a player like Markov.

If we had a reasonable amount of cap flexibility to work with, then getting Wiz signed at a market price would make sense, but since we have to be careful with how we add salary moving forward (unless we can get rid of that 7M pound gorilla on our back), I don't think paying a premium for a player like Wiz makes sense for us.

getting Markov back, watching Subban continue to develop, hopefully seeing Weber earn a full-time spot, and perhaps adding a 6-7 dman with some offensive/pp ability, would be a sufficient alternative (IF he's set on getting the "big" payday).

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
I find Wiz has picked-up his game a lot in this series...

If anything, his value has risen since the series has started... plays very tough in his own zone, and has offensive talent. He's worth 4.5-5.5 UFA market easily.

i think we must either be watching different games, or have a very different appreciation of hockey players...

imo, what really highlights good or great players, is how well they do the smaller, simpler plays...

stuff like accurate passes that hit their teammates in stride, composed dealing with the puck under pressure, body positioning that allows them to stay control as opposed to scrambling when the opponents start putting the pressure on, being in the right place at the right time... and so on and so on.

the flashy stuff, like big hits and big shots, are certainly important, but i think sometimes players get a bit too much credit for one-dimensional skills because they tend to be easier to see/measure.

I don't think Wiz has been bad in this series, but I constantly notice little things about his game that point to a player who is at best average in the hockey sense department. With all the other elements he brings, 3-4M$ is reasonable for us, but more than that would come back to haunt us and turn him into another lightning rod for criticism.

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04-22-2011, 10:41 AM
  #284
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Originally Posted by m00ks View Post
Subban isn't going to make 5 million in his next contract. By the time he gets that money, Gomez/Gio/Cammy would be off the books.

In any case, Spacegoat's paycheck is reserved for Subban which should be more than enough.

Andrei Kostitsyn's contract will be the problem if he somehow explodes next year.
Mike Green got 5.25M for 4 years after a 56 point season. If PK puts up 50+ points next year (he was on a 49 point pace after the all-star break) while being leaps & bounds better defensively than Green you better believe he will get that kind of dough.

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04-22-2011, 10:42 AM
  #285
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I could see Subban get 4.75-5.25 on his next contract over 3-5 years, easily.

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Old
04-22-2011, 10:52 AM
  #286
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I'd like to see the Habs extend Subban this summer for 4 years 17 mil, if they wait the extra year it'll probably cost 500k or more yearly.

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04-22-2011, 10:57 AM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
That's why you sign both.

Wiz can produce almost Markov-like offensive numers and he's solid enough to play Top 4 minutes in his own zone. Our lack of depth on the left side outside of Markov is extremely concerning however, unless Gorges can make the transition from right to left.
only if you sign wiz for 1 year. subban will be a 5M d-man in 12-13, which means your top 3 would be all over 5M per leaving your bottom 3 d-men weak as hell. Again I'd rather have balance than stack the top with 5M+ guys. Go with Vancouver's strategy. They've got arguably the best defense in the league and nobody' cap hit is over 4.5M, and only 2 guys over 4M. Look at all the injuries they've gone through and haven't missed a beat. Thats the kind of defense I want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I'd like to see the Habs extend Subban this summer for 4 years 17 mil, if they wait the extra year it'll probably cost 500k or more yearly.
I doubt PK's agent goes for that.


Last edited by PyrettaBlaze*: 04-22-2011 at 11:18 AM.
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Old
04-22-2011, 07:34 PM
  #288
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And they will give up Bieska every single time. Regardless, they are not as hamstring as many would like to believe. Samuelsson and Salo will not be resigned nor will Alberts. That gives them more than enough leeway to resign both Ehrhoff and Bieska should they choose.

Ehrhoff is their #2 and stepped up in a huge way this season with Edler down. Believe me when I say he is going nowhere. Yes I follow the Nucks, just in case anyone was wondering.
Samuelsson isn't a free agent and dropping Salo doesn't really get them much cap space because he was on LTIR for most of the season. There is actually a good chance they lose both Bieksa and Ehrhoff because they already have big contracts in Hamhuis and Ballard, while Edler will be due for a big raise after next season.

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04-23-2011, 07:03 PM
  #289
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**** that noise wiz is so lazy at times watching him is frustrating he just doesnt seem to care. I dont have confidence penciling him in playing top 4 min because he gets exposed in our own end. He cant even come close to replicating Markov.

Yes I also realize that Markov hasnt played alot of hockey the past two years but he is/was very consistant prior to the fluke injuries he has suffered.

Certainly the price of these two guys will come into consideration but if montreal had markov our pp would be tons better, I would rather Subban pay attention to markovs game as he simplifys it so well something PK Needs to do badly.

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04-23-2011, 07:06 PM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Ted View Post
**** that noise wiz is so lazy at times watching him is frustrating he just doesnt seem to care. I dont have confidence penciling him in playing top 4 min because he gets exposed in our own end. He cant even come close to replicating Markov.

Yes I also realize that Markov hasnt played alot of hockey the past two years but he is/was very consistant prior to the fluke injuries he has suffered.

Certainly the price of these two guys will come into consideration but if montreal had markov our pp would be tons better, I would rather Subban pay attention to markovs game as he simplifys it so well something PK Needs to do badly.
I see Wiz as being calm with the puck most of the time and I enjoy the fact that he doesn't dump-in the puck when he doesn't have to. He tries to make a good first pass and almost every time he does. I'm not comparing him to Markov btw. I'm just commenting on your remark.

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04-23-2011, 08:55 PM
  #291
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Wisniewski is as injury prone as Markov but Markov is better.

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04-24-2011, 07:10 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by McNuts View Post
Wisniewski is as injury prone as Markov but Markov is better.
I'd rather have Wiz in the playoffs and Markov in the reg. season,so I'd have to say go with Wiz.If we had a bigger,younger tougher defense,I may go the other way. Wiz is definately tougher and grittier than Markov.(Then again,who isn't)

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04-24-2011, 08:18 AM
  #293
Whitesnake
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You have to see the salary vs quality ratio. Markov COULD potentiall not asked for what he would have asked if he would not have been injured. You might get a rebate for his injury AND his love for Montreal. While I suspect Wiz asking for the moon.....Then the injury bug for Markov is a problem....but he's still the best talent available on D this year. You have no choice but to sign Markov....but you have to construct around him so that if he goes you are somewhat covered. The day the Habs choose to sign him now, there are NO MORE EXCUSES. I don't want to hear that we struggled 'cause he was injured...you now know it can happen. You couldn't predict he'd goes again...but now you know.

But Wiz...he's a problematic case for me. He does have some good outlet passes from time to time but in normality, he has all the trouble in the world with his stickhandling especially in pressured situations. Doesn't help the transition game that way. And he's not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer as far as his defensive IQ is concered. Now, he's good....but 4, 4,5 M$ good? I honestly would want to see what's out there before I make that kind of judgment.

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04-24-2011, 10:06 AM
  #294
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If we sign Markov,then JM,PG and all the whiners have a built in excuse if/when he goes down,or is sub-par with residual effect

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04-24-2011, 10:31 AM
  #295
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I really hope we can get both somehow, Wiz has been great for us and with the addition of Markov, we have a pretty good set of puck movers in Subban/Wiz/Markov.

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04-24-2011, 01:38 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Samuelsson isn't a free agent and dropping Salo doesn't really get them much cap space because he was on LTIR for most of the season. There is actually a good chance they lose both Bieksa and Ehrhoff because they already have big contracts in Hamhuis and Ballard, while Edler will be due for a big raise after next season.
My mistake, I had thought Samuelsson's contract was up this year for some reason. Regardless, they will not lose Ehrhoff unless he gets an outrage contract (read: vastly overpaid.) He has expressed a desire to resign with the Nucks and was their best defensemen when Edler was down. They will move whoever they must but Ehrhoff will be resigned. Bieska is not a priority and probably gone since they have so much depth on defense. Elder also has two more years left before being UFA. So there is no immediate concern of extending him next season.

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04-24-2011, 06:31 PM
  #297
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My only concern with Markov is he's had 2 major knee injuries in a 6 month span. That's even more of a concern than his age. All is good if Markov agrees to a slight pay cut or an extension on his current contract. It would be great if we could sign both, especially since Markov may go down again and is more likely to.

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