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Where is the line drawn with these refs?

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Old
04-22-2011, 01:27 AM
  #101
Glen Teflon Sather
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Section 409 View Post
Well, I haven't been here all year, but that's human nature (Not that I agree with it). However, this play goes beyond wrong play wrong time, he pushes Dubinsky, and makes no effort to move, it's just unacceptable.

I imagine we can agree that officiating in this league overall is a problem.
I agree completely there, officiating is inconsistent, the reason it's that way is because every ref is different. For example, every home plate umpire has their own strike zone. It's always going to be that way, the refs aren't robots

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04-22-2011, 01:30 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by johnnydollaz89 View Post
guys ive said it before and i will say it again, open your eyes all sports are rigged and set up, we had no chance to win this series going into it, you think Bettman wants Ovechkin to advance to get his ratings higher? or the NYR to get his ratings higher? lets be serious hes without two of his golden boys in Malkin and Crosby so hes gotta make sure Ovie is in throughout the whole way, wouldnt be surprised if they make it to the cup this year. For instance go watch the 09 series after we were up 3-1 and go see how many calls went the Caps way in games 5 6 7, its all set up guys, every sport you watch is rigged face it.
If all sports are rigged why haven't the Cubs won in over a hundred years and yet the Marlins and Diamondbacks have? You can't be that ignorant.

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04-22-2011, 01:33 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by rangers32185 View Post
I agree completely there, officiating is inconsistent, the reason it's that way is because every ref is different. For example, every home plate umpire has their own strike zone. It's always going to be that way, the refs aren't robots
It's not even that for me. It's even within a game, I will see a blatant interference go uncalled then a minute later a ticky-tack interference get called. Even in games where I have no rooting interest, this happens.

On another note, earlier in the season, it was a Rangers game. I forgot what players were involved, but the ref put his arm halfway up, then down, then up, then pulled all the way down. Refs in this league are a joke, I do not think that's why we are losing, because it is a two way street, but I just can't stand it.

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04-22-2011, 01:38 AM
  #104
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blaming the refs for the loss, and being pissed off at the refs for that play are 2 different things.

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04-22-2011, 06:19 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
I don't follow baseball (and I think calling a strike or ball is a lot more difficult than calling a hook where the stick is parallel to the ice) and I am not trying to get into a debate as to which sport has the best officials as that doesn't serve any purpose as it is totally subjective. What I can say is once you are an NHL referee you are here to stay which means no matter how bad you are, you have a job day in and day out once the season starts. This line of thinking is flawed. There is no salary cap with guaranteed contracts for NHL refs and Linesman. Officials should be graded at the end of the season by the league and GM's and get fired or retained based on their performance. There are ways to fix these issues but it appears the NHL has no desire how to fix these things. The NHL can mandate to call all penalties or just go back to the clutch and grab days where only dangerous plays or the loss of a scoring chance is called. Currently the league is in between calling everything and letting things go as if the NHL was still pre-lockout. I am offering suggestions as to how to help solve these issues, if you don't agree with my ideas and opinions thats fine too.
You haven't offered anything that would solve the problem. You are making the claim that refs, if held to a higher standard would perform better. I think that is silly, because what you are saying is that they are either inept or don't care.

You think that as a fan, with the advantage of sitting in a lounge chair and with the advantage of access to replays from multiple angles, would do a better job, if given the chance. That's true, but would only work if every call was subject to review.

You have not offered up why you think refs do such a bad job. Is it that they are inept or that they don't care, because I can't think of another possibility.

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04-22-2011, 06:23 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnydollaz89 View Post
guys ive said it before and i will say it again, open your eyes all sports are rigged and set up, we had no chance to win this series going into it, you think Bettman wants Ovechkin to advance to get his ratings higher? or the NYR to get his ratings higher? lets be serious hes without two of his golden boys in Malkin and Crosby so hes gotta make sure Ovie is in throughout the whole way, wouldnt be surprised if they make it to the cup this year. For instance go watch the 09 series after we were up 3-1 and go see how many calls went the Caps way in games 5 6 7, its all set up guys, every sport you watch is rigged face it.
If it is rigged, why do you watch?

It's great to find out that the Rangers didn't really win in 94. So sad that the league decreed that Messsier must be gifted the Cup yet again.

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04-22-2011, 08:06 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
You haven't offered anything that would solve the problem. You are making the claim that refs, if held to a higher standard would perform better. I think that is silly, because what you are saying is that they are either inept or don't care.

You think that as a fan, with the advantage of sitting in a lounge chair and with the advantage of access to replays from multiple angles, would do a better job, if given the chance. That's true, but would only work if every call was subject to review.

You have not offered up why you think refs do such a bad job. Is it that they are inept or that they don't care, because I can't think of another possibility.
Chosen
You obviously only want to argue cause you disagree but giving professional referees a pass because the game moves fast and they are forced to think on their feet sounds like ******** to me and anyone who is a fan of the sport. Yes I think they should be held to a higher standard and at the same time this isn't the supreme court where once you are in you have a job for life. They should be graded by the league and GMs who determine their fate. They can be replaced by younger officials if the game has passed them by. I also suggest the NHl decides whether they call anything that is a penalty or not because the way the game was being called at the start of the season to now is a completely different beast. What about how the delay of game penalty and too many men penalties are called in OT but not a boarding? Which penalty holds more weight? If you argue that with me I won't respond cause you don't agree with my points and all you do is criticize. The officiating is as inconsistent as wolski or Christensen and it ruins the sport and games for fans and players. I think they are doing a bad job because they receive no discipline and have no fear of losing their jobs or being reprimanded. If you have a job you can't get in trouble at or fired from for a poor performance where is the incentive to do your best? The NHL has been poorly officiated and has a disciplinarian who plays favorites for years. Bettman and Campbell don't care and it translates it way down to the officials that they like the higher ups are infallible.

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04-22-2011, 10:30 AM
  #108
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Fans will never be satisfied with officials when their team loses. In 94, Rangers fans did not ***** about refs.

The mistake you are making, to me, is the belief that something inherently subjective can be handled objectively. In every thread, for every view of what happened, there are two polar views of what we all just saw, but you think a ref in the heat of battle will be able to come up with decisions that will satisfy all. Cannot be done.

At least you are not claiming it is fixed.

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04-22-2011, 10:34 AM
  #109
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My take on the ref getting in Dubi's way is this. The players today are bigger and faster then in the past and having four refs on the ice to boot really limits space. The NHL really has to look into going with Olympic ice size, and in the meantime go back to a three ref system and incorporate some sort of video review for questionable calls. I know we suck bad on the pp and didn't help our cause, but having an official possibly determine the out come of a game is just sickening!

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04-22-2011, 10:40 AM
  #110
Darrelle Lundqvist
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People can blame the refs all they want, but the point is the Rangers shouldn't have been in that situation in overtime, game should have been long over.

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04-22-2011, 11:06 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR BLUE18 View Post
Tonight they didnt blow the whistle when it was covered up that led to the 1st goal.
Try watching what happened next time. The puck was NEVER covered up. The replays CLEARLY showed this. Just stop.

Quote:
The blatant crosschecks, trips, interference....but then giving ovechkin a call on a slashing penalty when avery didnt do anything. When gabby and duby had a 2-0 and the refs stood right in the way.

PLEASE SOMEONE TELL ME THE NHL IS NOT FIXED AND GOD FORBID OVECHKIN WOULD BE ELIMINATED FROM THE PLAYOFFS BECAUSE CROSBY IS ALRDY OUT TOO. THIS SERIES HAS BEEN COMPLETELY 1 SIDED WITH THE OFFICIATING. SHOULD HAVE HAD GAMES 1 AND 4 AND SHUD BE 3-1 US BUT ITS THE OPPOSITE. BUT HEY THE NBA DOES IT TO BECAUSE THE KNICKS GOT SCREWED AND SHOULD BE UP 2-0. SO FED UP WITH THIS GARBAGE.


Do you seriously believe this or are you just upset that the Rangers blew a game that they should have won mostly due to their anemic power play?

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Originally Posted by Wolskii View Post
HOWEVER... the Zebrae were inexcuseable tonight. Rule is stated that when the ref looses sight of the puck he has to blow the whistle. He had to of lost sight because lundqvist had it covered for a short period of time.
And he never lost sight of the puck so why would he blow the whistle? Again, watch the replay. Focus on the positioning of the ref (which was perfect by the way).


Last edited by EventHorizon: 04-22-2011 at 01:51 PM.
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04-22-2011, 11:31 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
the 2 on 0 thing is what REALLY irked me....what the frak was he doing there? he had no business being where he was, 2 refs right there playign defense against Dubinsky, it was inexcusable imho.
What were they doing in overtime in the first place?

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04-22-2011, 12:20 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Fans will never be satisfied with officials when their team loses. In 94, Rangers fans did not ***** about refs.

The mistake you are making, to me, is the belief that something inherently subjective can be handled objectively. In every thread, for every view of what happened, there are two polar views of what we all just saw, but you think a ref in the heat of battle will be able to come up with decisions that will satisfy all. Cannot be done.

At least you are not claiming it is fixed.
Chosen
I am not asking for a magical way for all fans to be happy. All I ask for is consistency. If you are going to blow the whistle quickly when a goalie has possession it has to be consistent. If you are going to call a very weak to minor slash on Avery than you should call the loss of a scoring chance for a hook that pulled down fedotenko and a dangerous hit from behind in OT that could have hurt Marc staal. All I am asking for is consistency and the NHL could discipline or terminate officials who miss blatant calls. The rangers lost game 4 but these officials have been terrible and when it's costs a team a game in the conference finals or stanely cup finals then what? My point you seem to ignore is just be consistent. The hook on Feds and board on staal were clear penalties especially if they are going to call a slash on Avery. Getting in dubi's way is way more of a mistake due to the quickness of the game as opposed to just blatant inconsistency from the officials in this series.

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04-22-2011, 01:25 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
Chosen
I am not asking for a magical way for all fans to be happy. All I ask for is consistency. If you are going to blow the whistle quickly when a goalie has possession it has to be consistent. If you are going to call a very weak to minor slash on Avery than you should call the loss of a scoring chance for a hook that pulled down fedotenko and a dangerous hit from behind in OT that could have hurt Marc staal. All I am asking for is consistency and the NHL could discipline or terminate officials who miss blatant calls. The rangers lost game 4 but these officials have been terrible and when it's costs a team a game in the conference finals or stanely cup finals then what? My point you seem to ignore is just be consistent. The hook on Feds and board on staal were clear penalties especially if they are going to call a slash on Avery. Getting in dubi's way is way more of a mistake due to the quickness of the game as opposed to just blatant inconsistency from the officials in this series.
Where we disagree, is that it is impossible to have consistency in regards to subjective matters . What you might think is hooking the next guy might not think is hooking. For example, how does one objectively decide if a player takes a dive? Sometimes,you can. Other times it is strictly sybjective. You are attempting to assign scientific judgment to something totally unscientific. If your idea was true, how is it that two fans of the same team can watch a,play and have opposite opinions of what they just watched?

Refs can be better but in the end there will be just as,much griping. This will never change no mattwr how incensed anyone gets.

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04-22-2011, 01:25 PM
  #115
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Rational opinion from the other side.

a) The ref getting in the way in inexcusable and I'd be fuming also.

b) If either of the goals should've counted it was Semin's. You need to watch the replay, he never had it covered for even one second. Watch it in real time. He pulls the puck in and in less than a second it's free, sitting on the line. It was not even poked out by a stick. As for Ovechkin's first goal, I'm of the opinion that it probably should've been whistled but hey I'm not a referee. In fact I'm 99% sure I would've blown it dead. Semin's was a good goal though.

Anyway, please don't devour me. I'm trying to be as rational and non-confrontational as possible.

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04-22-2011, 02:03 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
What were they doing in overtime in the first place?
what does it matter...it was a crucial play, period.

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04-22-2011, 02:04 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
what does it matter...it was a crucial play, period.
If the team holds on to a three goal lead, it's all irrelevant.

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04-22-2011, 02:06 PM
  #118
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And it doesn't matter anyway. If the ref wasn't in the way, Dubi would have hit a wide open Gaborik in the slot with the pass who would have proceeded to miss the shot wide by about 3 feet.

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04-22-2011, 02:21 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
If the team holds on to a three goal lead, it's all irrelevant.
i really don't get when ppl say stuff like this. If A doesn't happen, then who cares about B. Uhh, but A did happen, so why are we talking about it?

how many times do you hear people shrug off Matteaus goal and say, well if Richter didn't blow the game with 7.7 seconds to go, he never woulda had to score.

It's just a stupid way of making an argument.

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04-22-2011, 02:23 PM
  #120
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Say what you will, but there is NO REASON for the referee to be where he was to block Dubi like that.

That is just a man being absolutely terrible at his job and he should not work another game in the playoffs.

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04-22-2011, 02:30 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
i really don't get when ppl say stuff like this. If A doesn't happen, then who cares about B. Uhh, but A did happen, so why are we talking about it?

how many times do you hear people shrug off Matteaus goal and say, well if Richter didn't blow the game with 7.7 seconds to go, he never woulda had to score.

It's just a stupid way of making an argument.
Completely agreed. So it's ok that the ref got in the way of a possible game winning play because the Rangers shouldn't have been in overtime in the first place? In that case why even play OT, should have just gave the Caps the win after the 3rd.

I'm not blaming the refs for the game as the Rangers blew it themselves but more irate at the officials for that one play specifically. Also find it funny how they'll call different things in the 3rd period that can be ticky tacky but once OT comes, they won't call something unless you kill somebody.

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04-22-2011, 04:24 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
If the team holds on to a three goal lead, it's all irrelevant.
I don't understand. If a team blows a lead, the ref should just skate in their way?

If the queen a Y chromosome she'd be king. She doesn't so that's what's really irrelevant.

Quote:
i really don't get when ppl say stuff like this. If A doesn't happen, then who cares about B. Uhh, but A did happen, so why are we talking about it?

how many times do you hear people shrug off Matteaus goal and say, well if Richter didn't blow the game with 7.7 seconds to go, he never woulda had to score.

It's just a stupid way of making an argument.
This line of thought baffles me as well. Especially when I hear team a deserved to lose because they blew that lead, team b did a great job of coming back. Why is it okay for team b to get smoked early and deserve to win? The game is sixty minutes, if it is tied after sixty both teams earned to be in OT. Everything before that is irrelevant.

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04-22-2011, 06:41 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Section 409 View Post
I don't understand. If a team blows a lead, the ref should just skate in their way?

If the queen a Y chromosome she'd be king. She doesn't so that's what's really irrelevant.



This line of thought baffles me as well. Especially when I hear team a deserved to lose because they blew that lead, team b did a great job of coming back. Why is it okay for team b to get smoked early and deserve to win? The game is sixty minutes, if it is tied after sixty both teams earned to be in OT. Everything before that is irrelevant.
When they blew third period lead, they dont put themselves in a situation to where a play like the Dubinsky one could occur.

You can complain if your car gets stolen. You can't when you leave the door open, the keys in the ignition and sign on the windshield that reads "door open, keys inside"

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04-22-2011, 07:04 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
When they blew third period lead, they dont put themselves in a situation to where a play like the Dubinsky one could occur.

You can complain if your car gets stolen. You can't when you leave the door open, the keys in the ignition and sign on the windshield that reads "door open, keys inside"
I'm not sure that this is the worst analogy I've ever read, but it's close

I don't think vehicle theft is the best way of describing it, but if that's what we're doing it would be closer to: an abandoned car sits on the side of a road with 'free to good home sign', you take the car and then get jacked for it further up the road> when you go to steal it back, the local cop stops you...

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04-22-2011, 07:09 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by SkinsFan09 View Post
Rational opinion from the other side.

a) The ref getting in the way in inexcusable and I'd be fuming also.

b) If either of the goals should've counted it was Semin's. You need to watch the replay, he never had it covered for even one second. Watch it in real time. He pulls the puck in and in less than a second it's free, sitting on the line. It was not even poked out by a stick. As for Ovechkin's first goal, I'm of the opinion that it probably should've been whistled but hey I'm not a referee. In fact I'm 99% sure I would've blown it dead. Semin's was a good goal though.

Anyway, please don't devour me. I'm trying to be as rational and non-confrontational as possible.
I do agree with you on both points. I am annoyed with devroski getting in the way but that doesn't mean we definitely score on that play. I am more annoyed about the Ovechkin goal that robbed is of game 1. As what appears to be a rational caps fan how do you feel about the hook that took down fedotenko, the slash on Avery and the boarding non-call in OT when staal was hit from a dangerous position. Just curious as to your thoughts on the officiating especially in the last game?

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