exactly the guy is like 21, I think that we should keep him and just let him grow. His value is low right now, so no need to let him go, then watch him become a solid player for someone else
Just stop speaking right now. Do it, I'll wait. I bet you are one of those delusional people who think Dubi is our next captain and a potential 80 point player. He put up 43 points in 71 games in his only AHL season and he was playing on a far more talented Wolfpack team that included Cally putting up 35 + 20 in 60 games.
Dubinsky is more important than Callahan. Dubi is SO much stronger on the puck. Dubi is SO much more creative offensively. Dubi is SO much better of a playmaker. Callahan is a shot first guy who just isn't as strong on the puck or as creative with it as Dubi. So don't knock a poster by calling him someone that recognizes Dubi's worth because in fact you're saying that poster would know more than you.
Dubinsky is more important than Callahan. Dubi is SO much stronger on the puck. Dubi is SO much more creative offensively. Dubi is SO much better of a playmaker. Callahan is a shot first guy who just isn't as strong on the puck or as creative with it as Dubi. So don't knock a poster by calling him someone that recognizes Dubi's worth because in fact you're saying that poster would know more than you.
While I do agree that Dubinsky is much stronger on the puck than Cally, he has streches where he's just invisible. Callahan is a consistently more determined player.
While I do agree that Dubinsky is much stronger on the puck than Cally, he has streches where he's just invisible. Callahan is a consistently more determined player.
this^ Dubi may disappear, but I think he has more offensive skill then Cally
Grachev is 21 years old. He won't be 22 years old until next February.
Perhaps a little patience would be reasonable?
Both Zuccarello and Michael Sauer were 23 years old before playing their first NHL game. That gives Grachev 2 more seasons before he's at the same place developmentally.
Neither will be an impact NHL player, in my humble opinion.
But it is just that. My humble opinion.
Mine too.
Grachev at least won't be limited by his size. As others have said, if Grachev doesn't end up as a top-6 forward then I can see him working well in the bottom-6. Zucc, not so much.
Dubinsky is more important than Callahan. Dubi is SO much stronger on the puck. Dubi is SO much more creative offensively. Dubi is SO much better of a playmaker. Callahan is a shot first guy who just isn't as strong on the puck or as creative with it as Dubi. So don't knock a poster by calling him someone that recognizes Dubi's worth because in fact you're saying that poster would know more than you.
Dubi is stronger on the puck. However, the comments about his creativity and playmaking skills are a joke. Dubi is a staight ahead, grinding player who can keep the puck. But, his ability to make plays for himself and others is what holds him back. He and Brian Boyle due to their size and strength and ability to shield the puck find themselves in great positions to create scoring chances. The problem is too often they squander that opportunity. Dubi is more creative than Boyle. Heck, I'm more creative than Boyle. But creativity and the inability to see the ice and anticipate where the holes will be is what holds Dubi back. One on one with the puck on his stick he is great at keeping possession. But taking the next step? Not so much.
If Step or Zucc had either the size or the strength of either of these guys they would put up 80 points easy.
And to knock anything about Cally's game is silly. He is our best all around forward; no question about it.
Grachev is improving and has the skills to score in this league. He needs more time and we should give it to him. As for Zucc, he too has NHL level skills. But he needs to figure out how to maneuver in a big man's league to open room for those skills. They are both NHL caliber, Grachev is the better bet.
Grachev at least won't be limited by his size. As others have said, if Grachev doesn't end up as a top-6 forward then I can see him working well in the bottom-6. Zucc, not so much.
Good point. As much as it sucks for Zuke, his limited size is a tremendous factor, and he just isn't as fast as the other <5'10 players in the NHL (St. Louis/Gerbe). Grachev on the other hand, has the benefit of AHL seasoning that MZA will most likely not get, as well as twice as much experience in the North American game. Whether he puts it all together or not is yet to be determined, but due to his size and speed, like you said, he will be able to be utilized in a bottom six role, a luxury that MZA doesn't have.
bingo. im getting tired of the he is only 21 crap. the guy isnt even on the team at 21, who knows how old he will be if he does make the team and look at what skinner did at 18 years old. being 21 isnt an excuse anymore. im not saying he has to score 30 goals and be an all star in his rookie year, but show us something.
Age-wise, Grachev is a rookie in the AHL and he put up a respectable 38 points in 73 games. Since Jan 1st, he put up 31 points in 43 games. The people that actually watch him play every game have said that he's improved a lot.
Sauer was a 2nd round pick and didn't make the team until he was 23. MDZ was drafted in 2008, same as Grachev, and he's regressed to the point where we aren't even sure if he'll be on the team next year. Everyone loves Boyle and Prust, but neither one did anything of significance in the NHL until they were 26.
So why the hell are the expectations so high for Grachev? You act like he was a 1st overall pick or something.
bingo. im getting tired of the he is only 21 crap. the guy isnt even on the team at 21, who knows how old he will be if he does make the team and look at what skinner did at 18 years old. being 21 isnt an excuse anymore. im not saying he has to score 30 goals and be an all star in his rookie year, but show us something.
You're seriously comparing a player taken 7th overall to a player taken in the 3rd round?
You're seriously comparing a player taken 7th overall to a player taken in the 3rd round?
Seriously.
His value is very low right now, so there's no point in trading him if he's just going to be a throw-in and we're not really getting value back for him. Just give him time to develop, and maybe he can surprise us. From what little I have seen of him, his hockey sense seems suspect. Maybe he just needs some time to get the mental side of things together. He certainly has all the physical tools needed to play in the NHL. We have decent depth in our system, so there's no real need to rush this kid and doom him to a 3rd line role the rest of his career. If we have a little patience, he may bloom into that 1st or 2nd line player we're looking for him to be.
I'm not sure how so many people took Zucc over Grachev. Zucc is fun to watch but will never even have the potential to be a dominant goal scorer. But considering zucca's my height I have to give him a lot of respect and hope he proves me wrong! The safer pick is certainly Grachev though. The guy has a near perfect body for the game and is only getting bigger. I think he'll make the team next year and net a solid 16 for a rookie.
You're seriously comparing a player taken 7th overall to a player taken in the 3rd round?
No I'm not. The point is he's 21 now and really is disappointing imo. And 21 isn't really an excuse anymore when there are plenty of rookies younger than him on nhl teams. How long should we wait, what is the cutoff? 23? 24? Age doesn't have anything to do with it imo.
No I'm not. The point is he's 21 now and really is disappointing imo. And 21 isn't really an excuse anymore when there are plenty of rookies younger than him on nhl teams. How long should we wait, what is the cutoff? 23? 24? Age doesn't have anything to do with it imo.
And there are plenty of rookies older than him just making their mark on the NHL. Players who didn't light it up prior to this year.
Michael Grabner scored 34 goals this year in his rookie NHL season. He was 23 years old. He was placed on waivers in the beginning of the season and claimed by the Islanders.
Just one example, but you need to show patience. Maybe Grachev doesn't turn into an NHL player, but you sure as hell shouldn't be making that decision at this point in his development.
No I'm not. The point is he's 21 now and really is disappointing imo. And 21 isn't really an excuse anymore when there are plenty of rookies younger than him on nhl teams. How long should we wait, what is the cutoff? 23? 24? Age doesn't have anything to do with it imo.
Because every player has the same development curve. I don't know why we hung on to Sauer and made excuses for him for so long. I mean geez, he didn't make the team until he was 23. Retire already, geez.
So why the hell are the expectations so high for Grachev? You act like he was a 1st overall pick or something.
I think the expectations were so high with Grachev due to his last season in juniors where he showed a lot of promise. The hype machine was in full force.
There is no need to rush Grachev. Let him develop and see what happens.
Grachev at least won't be limited by his size. As others have said, if Grachev doesn't end up as a top-6 forward then I can see him working well in the bottom-6. Zucc, not so much.
exactly, if Zuccs skill doesnt pan out enough to land him a top 6 roster spot, he would be completely useless, he wouldnt play effectively as a bottom 6 guy with people like Boyle and Prust, he has the will, but being his size, he just cant. Grachev on the other hand could get by with his size alone, but frankly I like his potential more than Zucc because he is younger, and I like to buy into hype around players, Im very easily excited . and Im pretty patient
And there are plenty of rookies older than him just making their mark on the NHL. Players who didn't light it up prior to this year.
Michael Grabner scored 34 goals this year in his rookie NHL season. He was 23 years old. He was placed on waivers in the beginning of the season and claimed by the Islanders.
Just one example, but you need to show patience. Maybe Grachev doesn't turn into an NHL player, but you sure as hell shouldn't be making that decision at this point in his development.
thats terrific, but where was the buzz around grabner? am i going crazy thinking grachev was once regarded as one of our best prospects?
. and Im pretty patient 
