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Old
04-23-2011, 07:43 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polako View Post
My argument against signing Brad Richards:

Before this season began, did anyone watch a Dallas game and think, 'man, i can't wait until Brad Richards becomes a FA, because could bring the NYR to the next level?"

For most, it was "no." He's benefiting from circumstance, as there are really no great FAs out there this summer. Last year, Kovalchuk was a different story; he was someone worth spending serious cash one. Richards, not so much.

Signing Richards is a repeat of the Gomez and Drury mistakes.
No, actually, I first thought it in 2007 when he was TB, and haven't changed my mind since then.

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04-23-2011, 07:44 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
All true, except for the bolded part. 70 points for Richards, when healthy, is a disappointment. That's how good this guy is.
On this Rangers team, that's outstanding!

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04-23-2011, 07:44 PM
  #28
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I'd let Feds n Prospal go. Not that i don't think they were valuable, but their role is
better suited for a contending team, not for a skin of the teeth 8th seed team.

I don't think we land Richards. Lots of other teams have more cap space. And i don't think it's a bad thing. I'd like to see Slats sign a Jussi Jokinen, 27 yrs old who i think can easily be a 25g 35a player.

I say make a splash in the 2012 free agent market. Brad Boyes, Patrick Sharp, Dustin Penner, Grabovski...i'd rather go after those guys than blow all our space on only Richards, who will probably take 8-8.5 mill of capspace. :dunno

Other then that, bring up some more kids, cross my fingers that MDZ can be the PP QB and if Stastny is really unhappy in Colorado, id give them a '12 1st, Grachev & Valentenko to get him.

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04-23-2011, 07:45 PM
  #29
Darrelle Lundqvist
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Yes, I did. He's an elite 1st line center and PPQB, and it just so happens that's what we need.
Yeah, I mean I don't understand why people would be against signing a guy that fits our two biggest needs, even if it means overpayment, Richards can improve our club tremendously.

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04-23-2011, 07:45 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
All true, except for the bolded part. 70 points for Richards, when healthy, is a disappointment. That's how good this guy is.
Exactly...he's also a perennial 20-goal scorer.

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04-23-2011, 07:47 PM
  #31
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- Sign Richards
- Fix Gabby, whether it's his head or his shoulder he needs to get back to 35+ goal Gabby
- Sort out the last 2 D spots
- Fix the PP
- Decide whether they are happy with WW - Ani/Step - Cally as a 2nd line or whether they want to look at upgrading
- Sort out the Drury situation

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04-23-2011, 07:47 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Provolone View Post
I'd let Feds n Prospal go. Not that i don't think they were valuable, but their role is
better suited for a contending team, not for a skin of the teeth 8th seed team.

I don't think we land Richards. Lots of other teams have more cap space. And i don't think it's a bad thing. I'd like to see Slats sign a Jussi Jokinen, 27 yrs old who i think can easily be a 25g 35a player.

I say make a splash in the 2012 free agent market. Brad Boyes, Patrick Sharp, Dustin Penner, Grabovski...i'd rather go after those guys than blow all our space on only Richards, who will probably take 8-8.5 mill of capspace. :dunno

Other then that, bring up some more kids, cross my fingers that MDZ can be the PP QB and if Stastny is really unhappy in Colorado, id give them a '12 1st, Grachev & Valentenko to get him.
Out of all those players you just mentioned, the only ones that interest me are Jokinen and Sharp, everyone is bleh. Boyes is washed up, Penner is not good, and Grabovski is bleh.

Brad Richards>>>>>>>>>Anyone you just mentioned. To be fair, none of the above mentioned players are capable of single-handedly moving us up 3 or 4 spots in the Eastern Conference.

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04-23-2011, 07:49 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Provolone View Post
I'd let Feds n Prospal go. Not that i don't think they were valuable, but their role is
better suited for a contending team, not for a skin of the teeth 8th seed team.

I don't think we land Richards. Lots of other teams have more cap space. And i don't think it's a bad thing. I'd like to see Slats sign a Jussi Jokinen, 27 yrs old who i think can easily be a 25g 35a player.

I say make a splash in the 2012 free agent market. Brad Boyes, Patrick Sharp, Dustin Penner, Grabovski...i'd rather go after those guys than blow all our space on only Richards, who will probably take 8-8.5 mill of capspace. :dunno

Other then that, bring up some more kids, cross my fingers that MDZ can be the PP QB and if Stastny is really unhappy in Colorado, id give them a '12 1st, Grachev & Valentenko to get him.
I am vehemently opposed to a player in the Boyes, Sharp, Penner, Graborski ilk via UFA. Signing second line UFAs like this is what has gotten us into trouble. Jussi Jokinen would be even worse of an investment.

If you're going to sign an UFA, either make it an elite player that can make players around them better (Richards), or make it a veteran/reclamation project on a 1 year deal (ie: Prospal/Fedotenko/Frolov).

UFAs are going to be "overpaid" as compared to RFAs. However, every team has "overpaid" players. The key is to make sure you're overpaying the right guys. I believe Richards' pedigree and production suggests that he is one of those guys.

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04-23-2011, 07:51 PM
  #34
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Let's not also forget that Richards is a Conn Smythe winner and a PPG player in his playoff career. For a team that just had a serious lack of players who showed up in the offensive end this series, that's huge.

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04-23-2011, 07:53 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
I am vehemently opposed to a player in the Boyes, Sharp, Penner, Graborski ilk via UFA. Signing second line UFAs like this is what has gotten us into trouble. Jussi Jokinen would be even worse of an investment.

If you're going to sign an UFA, either make it an elite player that can make players around them better (Richards), or make it a veteran/reclamation project on a 1 year deal (ie: Prospal/Fedotenko/Frolov).

UFAs are going to be "overpaid" as compared to RFAs. However, every team has "overpaid" players. The key is to make sure you're overpaying the right guys. I believe Richards' pedigree and production suggests that he is one of those guys.
If I remember correctly, this was the argument some of us, (you and I included), were trying to make the same argument for signing Kovalchuk last off-season.

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04-23-2011, 07:54 PM
  #36
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Ricards kills two birds with one stone. (Elite center and PP QB)

Everyone who says "stand pat" needs to understand we have no elite players in the system unless you truly believe Kreider is the next Ovechkin.

Gaborik needs help and my mouth is drooling right now thinking what a healthy Gaborik can do with an elite playmaker like Richards.

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04-23-2011, 07:55 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
If I remember correctly, this was the argument some of us, (you and I included), were trying to make the same argument for signing Kovalchuk last off-season.
yep....letting Kovalchuk go was a huge mistake....

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04-23-2011, 07:55 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
Let's not also forget that Richards is a Conn Smythe winner and a PPG player in his playoff career. For a team that just had a serious lack of players who showed up in the offensive end this series, that's huge.
Also we know he can play well under Torts. It won't turn into a "he's not a Torts kind of guy" situation.

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04-23-2011, 07:55 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
If I remember correctly, this was the argument some of us, (you and I included), were trying to make the same argument for signing Kovalchuk last off-season.
I still would love to have had Kovalchuk, just not for such a long time period.

Kovalchuk, even with his struggles, is a pure sniper.

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04-23-2011, 07:56 PM
  #40
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Richards first.

I'd like to see some kind of legitimate veteran presence on our backend next year too. Someone who isn't a liability defensively and can make decent outlet passes.

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04-23-2011, 07:58 PM
  #41
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Yeah. I don't why anyone wouldn't want Richards here, we need a 1st line center badly.
If Gaborik returns to his old self, I think the Rangers could be a contender next season with Richards on the team.

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04-23-2011, 07:58 PM
  #42
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Being well aware of this team's history of UFA signings, I'm welcoming Richards with open arms.

I may be one of the few here, but I think we need to put a winning team in front of Hank while he is still playing the way he is. Start with Richards, try to add one more top line player, and fill out the rest of the top 6 with Gab, Dubinsky, Prospal/AA and Cally.

Again, maybe one of the few here, but KEEP Avery. The guy had a bad year with goals but had just about as many assists as anybody else on the team, has speed, and was one of the only guys even noticeable out on the ice this series.

Drury, Wolski, McCabe and EC need to go. Absolutely...

It's not the finished product, but it's a step in the right direction.

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04-23-2011, 07:59 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Richards first.

I'd like to see some kind of legitimate veteran presence on our backend next year too. Someone who isn't a liability defensively and can make decent outlet passes.
I hope you forgot to write "another" because I'm not sure what you consider Staal and Girardi. Staal will be in his 5th season, Girardi his 6th. That's a legit veteran presence.

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04-23-2011, 08:00 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
yep....letting Kovalchuk go was a huge mistake....
Especially when you consider the amount of cap space dedicated to the likes of Frolov, Boogaard and White, and that signing Kovalchuk means no need for Prospal. It could have been done.

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04-23-2011, 08:00 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
I hope you forgot to write "another" because I'm not sure what you consider Staal and Girardi. Staal will be in his 5th season, Girardi his 6th. That's a legit veteran presence.
I meant for the third pair. And I should have added in the word grizzled.

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04-23-2011, 08:02 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
If I remember correctly, this was the argument some of us, (you and I included), were trying to make the same argument for signing Kovalchuk last off-season.
You recall correctly. Second liners are exponentially more easy to develop via the draft. Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov, Stepan. All second (or high probability-potential second) liners drafted in the second round or later. First liners are just too rare (outside of the top of the draft -- and even there you're far from guaranteed a superstar).

Even trading for first liners is a rarity post lockout. The only 1st liners that get dealt come with serious baggage (ie: Heatley). Given the position where we will be drafting, that's also not a realistic option. Therefore, UFA is really the only option we have to fix our primary scoring woes.

Kovalchuk would've done it (in the sense that you could've played him on a different line than Gaborik to have a 1a and a 1b line and then your third and fourth lines). The burden on both Gaborik and Kovalchuk (or any other elite winger) would be lessened because there's only 1 player you can focus on. Richards operates in a different way, giving you a legitimate first line when paired with Gaborik, which can be followed by the Pack line, Stepan's line, and Boyle's line.

I don't think one option is better than the other, but a lot of posters last year were adamant that a #1C was necessary and we wouldn't be able to get one if we were paying Kovalchuk. Well, that #1C is now available, and you need to be willing to move mountains to get him, because there may not be another available in the foreseeable future. In either case, we need elite talent other than Gaborik.

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04-23-2011, 08:03 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
I am vehemently opposed to a player in the Boyes, Sharp, Penner, Graborski ilk via UFA. Signing second line UFAs like this is what has gotten us into trouble. Jussi Jokinen would be even worse of an investment.

.
I wouldn't want any of those named (other than Sharp) to get more than 3-3.5 million. Not suggesting we throw big money at 2nd liners. Though i think Sharp and Grabovski
are legit goal scorers.

Also, the Stars have missed the playoffs the last 3 seasons. Not saying he isn't a winner, but i think people are overestimating his impact. I don't think we're automatically a top 4 team with him.

EDIT: not that i would be upset if we got him, im just kinda neutral on the richards thing.


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04-23-2011, 08:08 PM
  #48
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I wouldn't want any of those named (other than Sharp) to get more than 3-3.5 million. Not suggesting we throw money at 2nd liners. Though i think Sharp and Grabovski
are legit goal scorers.

Also, the Stars have missed the playoffs the last 3 seasons. Not saying he isn't a winner, but i think people are overestimating his impact. I don't think we're automatically a top 4 team with him.
Personally, I think the Stars without Richards are a lottery team. He willed that team to playoff contention, and if not for a poorly timed concussion, Dallas would've been comfortably in playoff position in a very tight Western Conference. Take Richards and Drury (for salary purposes) off the roster of the rosters of the Stars and Rangers this year and I think the Rangers >>> Dallas. Add Richards to the Rangers roster (you're talking about 28g, 49a, 77 points in 72 games compared to Drury's 1g and 5p) and I think we'd have been fighting for the Atlantic Division title, at the least. The point per game performance Richards would've added in the playoffs would also have given us at least one more win, and probably more.


Last edited by azrok22: 04-23-2011 at 08:15 PM.
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Old
04-23-2011, 08:08 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
You recall correctly. Second liners are exponentially more easy to develop via the draft. Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov, Stepan. All second (or high probability-potential second) liners drafted in the second round or later. First liners are just too rare (outside of the top of the draft -- and even there you're far from guaranteed a superstar).
Dubinsky is a 1st line LW. Top 25 in PPG amongst LWs, even though NHL.com doesn't list him as one. Hell, Callahan was top 20 in that category for RWs. For some reason though, I don't consider him a 1st liner. I think it's because you expect 1st line LWs to play a hard forechecking, gritty style of game while putting up points and you expect a 1st line RW to be more of a pure goal scorer.

That being said, Dubi is a 1st liner. Dubinsky-Richards-Gaborik could be pretty sick next year if all pans out.

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04-23-2011, 08:14 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Dubinsky is a 1st line LW. Top 25 in PPG amongst LWs, even though NHL.com doesn't list him as one. Hell, Callahan was top 20 in that category for RWs. For some reason though, I don't consider him a 1st liner. I think it's because you expect 1st line LWs to play a hard forechecking, gritty style of game while putting up points and you expect a 1st line RW to be more of a pure goal scorer.

That being said, Dubi is a 1st liner. Dubinsky-Richards-Gaborik could be pretty sick next year if all pans out.
Depends on your definition of 1st liner. When I say 1st liner, I mean a player that would "ideally" be playing on that particular line. I don't equate the top 30 LWs in the NHL as first liners, and there are very few NHL teams that have a complete line made up of "1st liners." Similarly, there are far, far less than 30 #1 defensemen.

Status as 1st liner is a gut call that's hard to define, but I'd equate it to something like point per game players or players that provide ~60 points and Selke caliber defense. Dubinsky is a very good player, but I'd still define him as a second liner -- albeit a good one with still room to grow.

No doubt though that Dubinsky - Richards - Gaborik would be a great 1st line. Ideally I'd like to be able to keep Callahan and Dubinsky together on a second line and keep Prospal or bring in another 1 year veteran UFA to play on that top line, if possible.

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