HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Detroit Red Wings
Notices

Bertuzzi provides a big hint for Holland

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-18-2011, 01:36 PM
  #76
Houston Red Winger
Registered User
 
Houston Red Winger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Houston
Country: United States
Posts: 518
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglepride View Post
I always said and will keep saying it, if you can grab a guy like MacIntyre who scares 80 % of the top fighters or Godard (close one) go for it.

I'm tired of statements like "their salary, cup or 2 points or whatever" should be enough to fire them up. Sometimes you just need a change in the pace of the game, fighting can provide this.

You don't need to dress goons everytime so I really don't see why people are so heavily against this idea. If we can get a grinder who can throw punches too, I'm fine with that also.
MacIntyre is not only a great fighter, but also a good guy. He lived in my house for several months when he played for a Bay City, MI team before he stepped up into the NHL. If he played with the Red Wings this season, nobody would be taking cheap shots at us all the time. Zetterberg would be playing right now if Mac was sitting on the bench when needed.

Houston Red Winger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-18-2011, 03:43 PM
  #77
no.95
Registered User
 
no.95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: Sweden
Posts: 279
vCash: 500
Watching last nights game between the Rangers and Caps I was really impressed by Prust actually. That kind of player would definitely improve the wings if he was here. He made a heck of an impact last night and created heaps of pressure with his physical play. I'm all for getting someone like that. The only problem being that there isn't a whole lot of players like that around who are decent hockey players, good fighters, cheap and above all available.

no.95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-18-2011, 04:15 PM
  #78
Epsilon
#TeamHolland
 
Epsilon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Florence, SC
Posts: 35,520
vCash: 500
That John Scott experiment sure worked out well for the Hawks last night didn't it? I swear that's what some people want to Wings to do.

Epsilon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-18-2011, 04:31 PM
  #79
Fugu
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
I can't believe you guys would take troll bait like you just did in this thread. It's been removed. Next time, report it and don't respond. Will save us a few minutes.

  Reply With Quote
Old
04-18-2011, 04:50 PM
  #80
ProPAIN
Waar is da feestje?!
 
ProPAIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Paris
Country: Belgium
Posts: 11,349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon View Post
That John Scott experiment sure worked out well for the Hawks last night didn't it? I swear that's what some people want to Wings to do.
It was a risk the Hawks had to take. It just didn't work out. I don't get why this guy is so overrated though. Yeah, he has size, but he did absolutely nothing last night. The guys who needed to respond were their stars and they didn't do much last night.

I wouldn't mind a guy with that kind of size on our bottom 6. Someone like Prust, who can put up points and not be a deadweight. He's a decent fighter too, compared to our current roster

Prust-Helm-Eaves?

ProPAIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-18-2011, 05:21 PM
  #81
JackieTreehorn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 181
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protagoras View Post
I still have a vivid picture of the lack of reaction by wings players during last years series against the Sharks. In game 4, which proved to be Detroit's only victory, Thornton, in his ridiculous and laughable attempt at inspiring his team (he has to earn his playoff paycheck some way right?), was looking to pick fights with anyone that crossed his path. at one point, he was provoking Detroit's 40 year old captain, literally tugging at Lidstom like he was a rag doll knowing very well who it was and all the while with a haughty smirk on his face. I lost a ton of respect for Joe that night, but even more so for the wings players on the ice at the time that didn't lift a finger in order to redeem the honor of their long time veteran skipper. I don't think i have ever felt as embarrassed and ashamed about this group of players as I did then.

Having a 'goon' on the Wings roster maybe considered by some as contrary to the philosophy of the club and perhaps even tainting the image of the franchise... and fair enough. However, having 'cowards' on the team that can't even work up the courage to come to the aid of a man that has contributed more than anyone else to the success they have experienced in their careers, I would think, would be even more detrimental to that tradition and image!



well said.

JackieTreehorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-19-2011, 11:33 AM
  #82
67coach
Registered User
 
67coach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Detroit MI
Country: England
Posts: 900
vCash: 500
I took this directly from the Phoenix Coyotes board from last night.

Quote:
I'm so tired of the announcers and players talking about physical play. Physical play isn't getting you goals. Physical play isn't going to improve lousy defense or goaltending. Why don't we focus on puck movement in the neutral zone? Why don't we focus on learning how to cycle the puck? Why don't we learn how to actually move our feet defensively instead of watching them pick us apart? Gimmie a break. Nice hit on Lidstrom! That's huge! Oh wait, he got back up, and is making tape to tape passes like usual.

I just don't see the point. Teams have tried to be physical with the Wings for years. It doesn't work. We end up taking dumb penalties, and they end up scoring on the PP. Maybe it would be useful if this game was tallied by how many hits you had....it's not. So learn to play some hockey.

Get your head in the game Yotes! Brz...please....for the love of God....make a save.
Nuff Said!!

67coach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2011, 02:21 AM
  #83
RaySheppard
Registered User
 
RaySheppard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 261
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon View Post
That John Scott experiment sure worked out well for the Hawks last night didn't it? I swear that's what some people want to Wings to do.
Well, You're not comprehending the posts very well. Not a single person is interested in a John Scott type. It's amazing that every time somebody posts about wanting a decent player who can also scrap, a vocal minority pipes up about goons. As if goons have anything to do with the disscussion at hand.

RaySheppard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2011, 09:55 AM
  #84
slapshots1515
Registered User
 
slapshots1515's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: United States
Posts: 1,683
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaySheppard View Post
Well, You're not comprehending the posts very well. Not a single person is interested in a John Scott type. It's amazing that every time somebody posts about wanting a decent player who can also scrap, a vocal minority pipes up about goons. As if goons have anything to do with the disscussion at hand.
I know what you're saying, to preface. But...the reason teams employ goons is because decent players who can fight the goons like Boogaard, Goddard, or even just the heavyweights like Laraque or Janssen are hard to find. And that's who you're getting these guys to fight. That's part of why Probert is such a legend-in addition to being a feared fighter, he was a pretty decent hockey player. It's why McCarty was so valuable to us for so long. Why Iginla and Shanahan had so much value. That sort of guy doesn't grow on trees.

Plus, in this whole debate, no one's looking at it from the opposing perspective. If you've got a frustrated team trying to start fights, and no one on the Wings is responding by fighting, think that might frustrate them a little more?

I'm fine with what we have. We lose enough talent to waivers with our depth already, no need to lose more. When we brought in guys like May and Downey, they spent half the year in the minors.

slapshots1515 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2011, 09:57 AM
  #85
Harnessed in Slums
Registered User
 
Harnessed in Slums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 9,307
vCash: 500
I think the Wings do it the right way, as far as having a good combination of skill and grit. This roster doesn't lack guys who can mix it up if necessary. But they have to be functional hockey players. The Pens have plenty of gritty guys but that didn't stop Sid the Kid from getting effed up this season. And he's THE LEAGUE, THE WHOLE FREAKING LEAGUE.

Harnessed in Slums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2011, 07:29 PM
  #86
newfy
Registered User
 
newfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,619
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshots1515 View Post
I know what you're saying, to preface. But...the reason teams employ goons is because decent players who can fight the goons like Boogaard, Goddard, or even just the heavyweights like Laraque or Janssen are hard to find. And that's who you're getting these guys to fight. That's part of why Probert is such a legend-in addition to being a feared fighter, he was a pretty decent hockey player. It's why McCarty was so valuable to us for so long. Why Iginla and Shanahan had so much value. That sort of guy doesn't grow on trees.

Plus, in this whole debate, no one's looking at it from the opposing perspective. If you've got a frustrated team trying to start fights, and no one on the Wings is responding by fighting, think that might frustrate them a little more?

I'm fine with what we have. We lose enough talent to waivers with our depth already, no need to lose more. When we brought in guys like May and Downey, they spent half the year in the minors.
If you have a frustrated team trying to start fights, there are times when someone can step in there, fight and calm the other team down completely. May did it with Boll last year after he had been running Rafalski for about 5 straight shifts. Boll didnt run a guy the rest of the game.

People make it sound like its impossible to find decent players who can fight and play. Earlier in this thread I listed about 5 or 6 guys who are all cheap and free agents this offseason that are solid players (at least on par with Miller) and pretty tough as well.

You dont need a guy to fight Boogaard or Godards anymore, its the little twats like Cooke, Kaleta etc that need a good beat down every now and then.

Oh and in 2008 the wings had a goon in the lineup for 60 games in the season and didnt hurt at all, what would be wrong with a fighter who can play?

newfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2011, 07:47 PM
  #87
HockeyinHD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 9,939
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
People make it sound like its impossible to find decent players who can fight and play. Earlier in this thread I listed about 5 or 6 guys who are all cheap and free agents this offseason that are solid players (at least on par with Miller) and pretty tough as well.
The problem is those guys aren't as good as Miller, whose PK ability is the majority of his value,and the NHL roster spot some guy who would only play 8 minutes a night on is too valuable.

Quote:
Oh and in 2008 the wings had a goon in the lineup for 60 games in the season and didnt hurt at all, what would be wrong with a fighter who can play?
Nothing is wrong with a fighter who can play. It's just that I (and the Wings apparently) would rather have a player who can play better but who doesn't fight.

HockeyinHD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2011, 11:16 PM
  #88
YouCantYandleThis*
Moustache Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,368
vCash: 500
I am just a lowly Canucks fan, but there is some definite nostalgia around Bertuzzi.

Fantastic of the Red Wings organization to take him in after he was villified by the fans (for good reason mind you) and media in the country. He seems to have bought into the system they have in place, and the hands never left the big guy.

Basically, what you got was the raw potential of what he used to be, minus the massive physical presence. He never lost those soft hands.

I would love to have Bertuzzi back on the Canucks, but I think his time hear his done. I hope he stays in Detroit, in a city with a team that seems to really appreciate him.

YouCantYandleThis* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2011, 02:00 AM
  #89
garbageteam
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 221
vCash: 500
Yeah, I will chime in too. Bertuzzi was my favorite Canuck of the entire 2000-2010 decade. It's been really disappointing how he has fallen off a cliff in his production - I remember sports writers and pundits calling him the X-factor for the Wings in the playoffs '07, and in fantasy leagues he was still highly regarded when he joined the ducks in '08 when it was thought he could still return to his 05-06 form and pot around 25 goals and 70 points a season. While relatively productive in Calgary (think he was trending 60 pts if he wasn't injured) he seemed by that point to be an average second line winger.

Very glad for him that he has ended up back on the Wings, one of the classiest and most storied organizations in the league, and seems to be used well by Babcock. Long, long gone are the days where he would just go into the offensive zone with one hand on the puck and the other pushing away a defender (and subsequently scoring), but he looks to be a great role player for the team, part of the huge depth the team has and seems to have reclaimed his mean surly streak. If not the Canucks, I hope the Wings make a deep run to the cup and Big Bert can finally cap off his career with some form of true success.

garbageteam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 10:52 AM
  #90
Booyah!
Registered User
 
Booyah!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,191
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon View Post
That John Scott experiment sure worked out well for the Hawks last night didn't it? I swear that's what some people want to Wings to do.
The old straw man argument, no one is calling for Scott or Boogaard, no one with 1/2 a brain anyways. The point I take from this thread is it's a nice to see Bertuzzi stand up for himself and his team, the Wings as a team also seem to play with more energy and moxy when they know someone is watching their back. Imagine a line with Helm Abdelkader and Prust, or someone like him. A lot of times the Wings seem to play without emotion, and at least the last few times Bertuzzi fought they picked up their intensity and focus, plus the crowd loved it....coincidence?

Booyah! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 01:07 PM
  #91
newfy
Registered User
 
newfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,619
vCash: 500
Instead of going with 3 scoring lines I think the wings have the personnel to potentially build a team like the 08 one again.

Drake Draper Cleary was our third line in the playoffs that year, not relied on to be a scoring line but chips in and plays physical defensive hockey with lots of energy.

Next year something like Helm at center, Abdelkader on wing and Matt Bradley on wing as our third line. It allows Abby to play on the wing where he is a wrecking ball and will chip in, Helm at center who is a pretty hard hitter, blinding fast skater and can chip in and than Bradley who is also a big, tough physical guy who can fight heavyweights and actually play the game half decent. He can bury a goal if put in a scoring opportunity.

That line looks exactly like the grind line did. Helm is like Draper, Abdelkader is like a Maltby that will fight a little bit and Bradley and Mac are also very similar players as well. Light heavyweight fighters who can play the game.

A line like this is what the wings have won cups with, not these panzy little third lines with guys like Hudler, Madonna, Flip etc

newfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 02:44 PM
  #92
14ari13
Registered User
 
14ari13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Western Sahara
Country: Norway
Posts: 9,140
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by icebank_miceelf View Post
I am just a lowly Canucks fan, but there is some definite nostalgia around Bertuzzi.

Fantastic of the Red Wings organization to take him in after he was villified by the fans (for good reason mind you) and media in the country. He seems to have bought into the system they have in place, and the hands never left the big guy.

Basically, what you got was the raw potential of what he used to be, minus the massive physical presence. He never lost those soft hands.

I would love to have Bertuzzi back on the Canucks, but I think his time hear his done. I hope he stays in Detroit, in a city with a team that seems to really appreciate him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by garbageteam View Post
Yeah, I will chime in too. Bertuzzi was my favorite Canuck of the entire 2000-2010 decade. It's been really disappointing how he has fallen off a cliff in his production - I remember sports writers and pundits calling him the X-factor for the Wings in the playoffs '07, and in fantasy leagues he was still highly regarded when he joined the ducks in '08 when it was thought he could still return to his 05-06 form and pot around 25 goals and 70 points a season. While relatively productive in Calgary (think he was trending 60 pts if he wasn't injured) he seemed by that point to be an average second line winger.

Very glad for him that he has ended up back on the Wings, one of the classiest and most storied organizations in the league, and seems to be used well by Babcock. Long, long gone are the days where he would just go into the offensive zone with one hand on the puck and the other pushing away a defender (and subsequently scoring), but he looks to be a great role player for the team, part of the huge depth the team has and seems to have reclaimed his mean surly streak. If not the Canucks, I hope the Wings make a deep run to the cup and Big Bert can finally cap off his career with some form of true success.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah! View Post
The old straw man argument, no one is calling for Scott or Boogaard, no one with 1/2 a brain anyways. The point I take from this thread is it's a nice to see Bertuzzi stand up for himself and his team, the Wings as a team also seem to play with more energy and moxy when they know someone is watching their back. Imagine a line with Helm Abdelkader and Prust, or someone like him. A lot of times the Wings seem to play without emotion, and at least the last few times Bertuzzi fought they picked up their intensity and focus, plus the crowd loved it....coincidence?
I do not know if you know it, but the fans were chanting his name after he fought in game 1. It was great to see and hear.

14ari13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 04:06 PM
  #93
Konnan511
#Loyalty
 
Konnan511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Traverse City
Country: United States
Posts: 5,088
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Konnan511
1 fight in the playoffs = 1 win. 3 no fights, even though Doan was running Lidstrom and Jovo was trying to hurt Helm all series, 3 wins.

We win whether we fight or not. Good enough for me.

Konnan511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2011, 01:27 AM
  #94
RaySheppard
Registered User
 
RaySheppard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 261
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshots1515 View Post
I know what you're saying, to preface. But...the reason teams employ goons is because decent players who can fight the goons like Boogaard, Goddard, or even just the heavyweights like Laraque or Janssen are hard to find. And that's who you're getting these guys to fight. That's part of why Probert is such a legend-in addition to being a feared fighter, he was a pretty decent hockey player. It's why McCarty was so valuable to us for so long. Why Iginla and Shanahan had so much value. That sort of guy doesn't grow on trees.
And I know what you're saying as well. But...when the Flames,Bruins,Preds,Canauks,Ducks..etc, can employ 3 or 4 good players who can fight...Why is it so hard for the Wings to employ one or two?

RaySheppard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2011, 01:54 AM
  #95
DetBigWangs
Registered User
 
DetBigWangs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,155
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaySheppard View Post
And I know what you're saying as well. But...when the Flames,Bruins,Preds,Canauks,Ducks..etc, can employ 3 or 4 good players who can fight...Why is it so hard for the Wings to employ one or two?
These 'good players' seem to be losing games left and right at the moment. Except for Calgary, they didn't even make the show. Would love a guy that can mix it up if necessary, but we're only paying for hockey skills.

DetBigWangs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2011, 02:18 AM
  #96
RaySheppard
Registered User
 
RaySheppard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 261
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetBigWangs View Post
These 'good players' seem to be losing games left and right at the moment. Except for Calgary, they didn't even make the show. Would love a guy that can mix it up if necessary, but we're only paying for hockey skills.
And this "only paying for skills" let the other guys beat us up, approach has got us 1 cup in 9 years. Despite having a top seeded highly skilled team every single year. Trying to draw a link between 'good players who can fight' = "losing games left and right"..is pretty weak.

It's easy to be pumped about our chances right now with the sweep and much needed rest. However, it is actually ok for the fans to have a different view than Holland. And this is the place to voice it. The man doesn't walk on water.

RaySheppard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2011, 02:36 AM
  #97
Ricelund
We like our team.
 
Ricelund's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Detroit, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 5,004
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaySheppard View Post
And this "only paying for skills" let the other guys beat us up, approach has got us 1 cup in 9 years. Despite having a top seeded highly skilled team every single year. Trying to draw a link between 'good players who can fight' = "losing games left and right"..is pretty weak.
Only one Cup in nine years (I assume you mean since 01-02, which is actually only seven seasons). In those seven seasons, they've lost in the first round twice, lost in the second round twice, lost in the WCF once, lost in the finals once, and won a Cup.

Find me a better run by any other team.

I think talking about success since the lockout is more relevant, considering Lewis was a terrible head coach.

One first round loss, one second round loss, one WCF loss, one finals loss, one Cup win. One Cup in five years. Should've been two. Maybe even three if they don't lose Schnedier and Kronwall in '07. Sorry, can't complain.


Last edited by Ricelund: 04-24-2011 at 02:49 AM.
Ricelund is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2011, 02:54 PM
  #98
newfy
Registered User
 
newfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,619
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rice View Post
Only one Cup in nine years (I assume you mean since 01-02, which is actually only seven seasons). In those seven seasons, they've lost in the first round twice, lost in the second round twice, lost in the WCF once, lost in the finals once, and won a Cup.

Find me a better run by any other team.

I think talking about success since the lockout is more relevant, considering Lewis was a terrible head coach.

One first round loss, one second round loss, one WCF loss, one finals loss, one Cup win. One Cup in five years. Should've been two. Maybe even three if they don't lose Schnedier and Kronwall in '07. Sorry, can't complain.
Yeah and that one cup win in all those years was the one time they loaded up on a few meat and potatoe players instead of having all skilled guy top to bottom. Go figure

newfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2011, 03:08 PM
  #99
Ricelund
We like our team.
 
Ricelund's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Detroit, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 5,004
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Yeah and that one cup win in all those years was the one time they loaded up on a few meat and potatoe players instead of having all skilled guy top to bottom. Go figure
So by "loading up on meat and potato players," you mean having Dallas Drake on the roster.

Downey and McCarty did nothing in that run.

Ricelund is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2011, 04:03 PM
  #100
Heaton
Moderator
#disapointment
 
Heaton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Rochester, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 16,910
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Heaton
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Yeah and that one cup win in all those years was the one time they loaded up on a few meat and potatoe players instead of having all skilled guy top to bottom. Go figure
I think we've seen comments like this every season and it never is any less hollow. Wanting to see a style of play or player is not the same thing as it being necessary.

A good mix of skill and toughness is needed, Detroit has that mix.

Heaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:21 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.